SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Right back atcha SMS

Psh - us nerds know there's only 10 kinds of people: those who understand binary, and those who don't.

I think it's guaranteed that there's two types of people. People who LOVE reptiles and People who don't lol.

Is there a way to find out what thread started this debate/rant in the first place? I do not understand the OP's first post.

(Again please note I am tired and have had an ongoing migraine... )

It's in the "Wife pregnant from affair" thread,that is now on page two on jfo.

i feel its important to know where people are coming from.

this is important for both op and responders.

rb was obviously deeply hurt by his ws. hes still healing. my heart goes out to him. i disagred with him. i dont think half the planet (the female half) are scheamers out to gain or maintain worlwide power. but in his pain he sees this and although its not rational its his pain and experiences talking. he learned in his life it WAS true.

i post most often on bh threads in jfo.

i rarely post on a bw thread unless

1: no one else has yet because i remember needing help and sometimes just knowing someone cares and is there can help

2: something really big/important (imo) isnt being addressed.

the reason i dont post more on bw threads isnt because i hate women or dont think i can help; its because many bh arent too keen on women when they jfo and i suspect many bw arent too keen on men. not at that second. not when they jfo the man they trusted nuked them.

i dont want to push away or harm someone who really needs help.

Interesting point, william. And not one I'd considered. I post on new threads in jfo, by both betrayed husbands, and betrayed wives. My advice is usually gender neutral. It never occurred to me that a BH wouldn't want to get advice from a woman. I know I've received PM's from several betrayed husbands here, thanking me for posting on the BH threads on that forum, stating it's good they hear *that* from a woman. That it makes a difference,somehow. I've never been told it may not be appreciated, and,in fact may be unwanted. And,as a BW, I welcomed the posts from the betrayed husbands,just as much as I did from the betrayed wives. It helped to have a man's POV.

I respect your opinion, and your personal reasons for posting..And not posting as you see fit, though.

i post most often on bh threads in jfo.

i rarely post on a bw thread unless

1: no one else has yet because i remember needing help and sometimes just knowing someone cares and is there can help

2: something really big/important (imo) isnt being addressed.

I am the same, but my reasoning is just that I feel like I can be a better help to BHs than BWs. I can relate more.

I don't know, when I first came here I appreciated responses from the men and women. The women were a little gentler in there tossing of 2x4's (that I deserved) and sometimes it's just nice getting a caring response. The male perspective probably helped the most since it was simply easier to relate. But both male and female perspectives were welcome and both helped tremendously.

Not trying to stir that pot by any means, but I stumbled across the thread mentioned. I felt that the poster of the "two sorts of men" did a disservice to his own gender by declaring there are only two sorts of men.

I am of the opinion that you can not generalize about any group of people no matter what label they have (gender, ethnic, religious, etc.). You simply can not paint human beings that way because while we have things in common as a member of group, we also have great differences.

I think men come in all degrees of self esteem, emotions, motivations etc. A life path for anyone is highly personal.

I watched a new agey type video once that said instead of blaming an abusive person for your wounds, thank the universe they revealed your initial wounds to you. Sappy, agreed, but indeed true. Maybe a WS is what it takes some people to heal themselves and change, regardless if they divorce or not.

Just some food for thought.

I felt that the poster of the "two sorts of men" did a disservice to his own gender by declaring there are only two sorts of men.

I view it as extreme impression management. Factor in motivation.

I felt that the poster of the "two sorts of men" did a disservice to his own gender by declaring there are only two sorts of men.

I wasn't offended. But somebody has to work really, really hard to offend an old Marine.

I think RB truly believes there is only one road out from infidelity. It is his truth that helps him survive this Hell and he is trying to share it with great emphasis. And in essence, if you believe that once a cheater, always a cheater, there IS only one solution.

I believe different. I'm surviving different, and I exist well beyond his very limited criteria about men who choose to attempt reconciliation. My kids are grown, I'm financially independent and I'll be fine if R doesn't take.

His anger is completely relatable. However, most men I know don't need anyone's approval for their individual choices.

However, most men I know don't need anyone's approval for their individual choices.

That's on point.

One of my trainees here recently said something flippant and I told him I needed to get his phone number. He asked why, and I responded: "So I can call you the instant your opinion starts meaning something to me."

It was said for humorous effect, which was how the class took it, but humor is only funny because it contains a grain of truth, right?

Spock,

What is it you hope to do with this thread? Of course there's a double standard, you've given multiple examples. Life is not fair, especially if you're a man. God forbid if you're a white man. How is getting yourself all worked up here helping your situation?-stayed

Stayed, I'm not sure there is hope. Most probably it is despair not hope. I think I lost that hope. This hope just brings more suffering and disaster as you hope for nothing real. It's everything so futile that it makes no more sense for me anymore. The reason for the post was deeper than the hope. I have posted many examples for the double standards yet I concentrated more on RB. It was for a reason. However, isn't it nice when the anti- generalization warriors generalize this very fact too! I did it for a reason. Let me explain this below.

I'm writing to ask Spock to identify the words/phrases/sentences/paragraphs that he sees as double standards - SISOON

When I joined SI there was another poster like RB. Actually, he was more nuanced them him. He advised me to stay not to leave like RB (but it's us who are the only one who generalize). You see, although I explicitly stated that his advice is helping me, ENORMOUSLY, he was chastised for his opinions. Don't you find that funny? Well, it's my thread, I explicitly state that it helps, yet many people have the audacity to chastise him. I wasn't preventing them from expressing their beliefs yet they felt the right to prevent another poster from helping me or at least jeopardize it. Well, if it helps me and those open minded people can't hear any different Idea then they shouldn’t have been reading my thread and continue to post on it. However, they went on and on with this until he either left SI or maybe has been banned. I don't know. His screen name was Stretch and I lost my source of support. Now, the recent source of support maybe has been chased away too.

Liz, I think rebaron's delivery wasn't that great but his message was spot on for me and my experiences. - stayed

Now, RB is also a poster who helps me a lot. I value his opinions. Do I agree with all of them? No, but I think his concept is 100 percent true. Unlike RB I think (like Strech) that it is more nuanced. I think that within the same structure you can find in the A group men that should reconcile and that's o.k. The same applies vice versa. I also don't agree with the earning capacity that is a factor here as obviously there are a lot of men who earn big money but have zero self-respect for themselves when dealing with relationships (and betrayal)! I also like to read your posts and inputs. You stayed married and I completely understand your reasons. I respect you for your honesty which does not sugar coats anything and in fact I feel exactly like you.

One thing I don't understand Mr. Spock and stayedforthekids...aren't you both reconciling? If you think redbaron's advice is so great, then why don't you guys take it and D? I don't get it.

I still fucking have no answer for that but I will try to explain it below.

I honestly feel, after dealing with this shit for years, remorseful WS, counseling, etc., blah, blah, blah, that I would have been better off leaving on d day. I have the lay of the land now. I see what a reconciled marriage looks like. I know what I have to live with the good changes and the "other" shit. I know the ramifications of staying vs leaving. I wish I would have left on d day and will likely end up divorcing even years after the A. -stayed

The same here, stayed. THE SAME! It's blah, blah, blah. I'm sorry for the next rant so all the swearing is referred to my-self and my own situation. Others have asked why I'm still here!? I'll try to explain it immediately.

Unfortunately, I just can't seem to put this mess aside and move on - stayed

This is crucial. For me, it is probably the inertia that is at play. At least it is partly the reason why I'm still staying here. I probably have also hard time to leave NOW (than it would be otherwise) because she's fucking done this fucking work. Yes, it would be easier for me if she didn't. And I hate that I created this situation with my own stupidity and the decision to stay. If she hasn't been doing the work, I could divorce her now with no regrets. And, yes, I hate my-self for this too. I fucking can't look at the idiot and the pathetic display of manhood that I AM for staying with a cheating woman. Especially when I have to look every fucking day in the mirror.

I have struggled in R for years and years. Too long really. The cognitive dissonance is fucking me up. I can't seem to shift my perspective that, if I stay married to a cheating woman, I am a giant fucking pussy. I can totally relate to rb's thoughts on just getting the hell out of the marriage ASAP after d day.

As you so eloquently stated it's the cognitive dissonance that is killing. This is how this cognitive dissonance looks like for me. It is about the SF soldier who amidst the most horrific circumstances, who buried friends, was always strong, never dithered, never hesitated, but at this one single focal point completely came out as a weak pathetic doormat. A shadow of what this man supposed to be and who threw all of his principles away.

PARTLY BECAUSE OF THOSE DOUBLE STANDARDS AND PARTLY BECAUSE I WAS STUPID ENOUGH TO BELIEVE IN THEM!

I can't hate her for all the work that she's done. So, I have to hate my-self. Why? Because I'm the man RB was referring in his group A' BUT DIDN'T ACT AS ONE. And because of the above reasons it is so hard to leave NOW than it would be otherwise. I sometimes just hope she would have enough and files for divorce. Unfortunately, she isn't.

I DON'T HATE HER ANYMORE, I HATE MY-SELF - more an more!

[This message edited by MrSpock at 5:36 AM, April 23rd (Sunday)]

Maybe a WS is what it takes some people to heal themselves and change, regardless if they divorce or not.

Maybe the wayward spouse shouldn't act as God, decide what a BS or any other human being needs for his healing and justify affairs as some source of healing. It is better for them to concentrate on helping the spouse to heal from every other type of trauma that is inflicted upon them by other people, not the one that is inflicted by a spouse that should protect them from any hurt. I think one should leave it to God, Karma or whatever your belief system is.

[This message edited by MrSpock at 3:58 AM, April 23rd (Sunday)]

Just for the record. I did get support after posting this thread. I got especially PM's from women who completely agreed with almost every single word I've written. One was even a wayward wife that didn't post because the thread was labeled as a rant. Another one was a BW that didn't post because she doesn't want to deal with the same treatment as I have to endure. I fully understand it. These reactions as well as most of the replies only provide more and more evidence for the double standards. We agreed on this. To hear it from women was very important for me and it indeed helped. It was worth to write this thread and to endure all the responses just to hear those different female voices.

One woman even shared with me the stories, actual, real, true stories, how many men in her family were screwed over those double standards. I provided them with more information and referred them to those sources. Obviously it is against the rules to post links but it is also obvious that those who want to learn and empathize know how to get it from me. Even if it would be allowed to post links some people wouldn't accept this. The compassion gap between men and women is also well known and documented in research. It is the reason why we see those responses here and it is also obvious that it is futile to discuss it with these people.

Anyway, here are four books to read (for those who are willing to learn)

Legalizing misandry (Paul Nathanson, Katherine Young)

Spreading Misandry (Paul Nathanson, Katherine Young)

Replacing misandry (Paul Nathanson, Katherine Young)

Sanctifying misandry (Paul Nathanson, Katherine Young)

And another 453 pages research that is called:

"Discrimination against Men Appearance and Causes in the Context of a Modern Welfare State"

All of them providing all of the data both in historical as well as in modern context!

But, yeah, men never suffer discrimination, they actually never suffer from double standards, they just don't suffer from anything.

As stayed mentioned

Especially if you're a man. God forbid if you're a white man

Yeah, they are all privileged

Anyway, the last research proves that misandry is more rampant than misogyny. And the biggest problem is that while misogyny is politically incorrect, misandry is totally accepted. But again pointing to this research (and the other books) is of course misogyny while such a claim is misandry and a double standard in itself.

[This message edited by MrSpock at 8:47 AM, April 23rd (Sunday)]

Mr. Spock, just reading your profile is heartbreaking. You are clearly miserable and it seems that the A is a deal breaker for you...so why not D? You are defending redbaron but you do the opposite of what he recommends. After reading your profile I would recommend you D as well...it's not too late!- Lizm

You are spot on here. It is indeed not too late! I think what prevents me from doing this is yet another dissonance. Maybe it's not a cognitive one this time but a "dissonance of the heart"! I do have now a lot of compassion for her, but apparently I have no compassion for my-self. The most compassionate thing I could do for myself is to divorce her yet that clashes with my compassion for her. Somehow, I probably have to reconcile both of them. I don't know, maybe to divorce her while not losing my compassion for her situation! I really don't know how to do it but I think this is actually what I NEED to do and to LEARN.

Mr. Spock, just a suggestion, but have you considered a trial separation? It might help clear your head.

To reiterate..Spock is receiving the comments he has, because he speaks extremely negative about women in general.

Yeah, because he is being a dick.

It really doesn't matter that the first statement is a manipulation of everything I've said and I am not offended by such posters but it is interesting if calling a member a "dick" is in sync with the guidelines of SI. I hope the mods see it.

In fact, I'm happy that this is posted because it proves again my points - one by one. In fact, many men have internalized everything I've said here. But of course RB is the villain here; And a member calling others a dick (when having nothing to say) is an open minded person.

This is priceless

[This message edited by MrSpock at 11:11 AM, April 23rd (Sunday)]

JanaGreen

No, but maybe you are right. If I think about it then it makes a lot of sense. Maybe I should give it a thought.

My WH moved out in February to try to "figure out what he wants." He's still really confused but my head is MUCH clearer now.