SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Just call her to give her an update. She has a husband cheating on her. She wants this information (unless she's a rug sweeper, and in that case you'll know quickly)

Hi Digi,

You have gotten some really great advise on here. Keep reading and posting.

I am reading this with my iPhone, so it's not letting me see what state you are from. I live in North Carolina, and I too used a VAR many times to catch my WH with his co-worker. Initially I thought I could get in trouble for this, in fact OW threatened to sue me, BUT after consulting with several attorneys as well as some PIs here is the deal at least in my state, maybe yours as well.

You CAN use a recording devise in your car because it is YOUR PERSONAL PROPERTY. You DO NOT have to disclose that it is in there. What you are not allowed to do is wire-tap someone's phone. Does your wife pay for that car alone? Is it in her name only? Or is it a joint asset? In fact, I was told by my attorney that the recordings COULD be used in court. I would check that fact before you dismiss it.

Do not make the mistake that I did and tell your WW that was how you got your information. Then she will take her conversations out of the car.

Good luck! You rock!!

Thank you! I hadn't thought of it that way. It's possible that the law is interpreted that way in my state, too.

I need to get back to sleep. It dawned on me tonight that I'll either never be intimate with her again or if I do, I'll hate myself for doing it. A lot of the past few days has actually been enjoyable to me, but this right here makes me sad. I'm really looking forward to having this all sorted out asap so I can just move on. It would have been a lot easier if this blew up when it started. Years, wasted in misery, for nothing.

I'm not much into legalities, but I'm not exactly sure that I've ever heard of anyone prosecuting because you have evidence on a VAR, especially if she's denying any sort of relationship with the OM.

I'd love to hear her defense on that. Keep up the great work, Will.

Edit ..

Btw, in the state of AL, if you file first, the judge gets to hear your side of the story first. That could be huge!

[This message edited by Wool94 at 5:47 AM, April 23rd (Sunday)]

orward to having this all sorted out asap so I can just move on. It would have been a lot easier if this blew up when it started. Years, wasted in misery, for nothing.

This is a great lesson for anyone in your shoes reading this.

WITHOUT EXCEPTION THE FIRST STEPNOF THIS PROCESS IS GETTING OUT OF INFIDELITY. Without exception.

Is it possible for you to sue the POS. Since he own the company and your WW is a subordinate. Since he is not just an employee there may be a way.You may need to have good proof. Talk to your lawyer. If it is possible you can higher a PI to get evidence.

Also since OM is lurking behind like a coward, talk to him directly and ask what is going on and how far. Then let him have it about destroying two families.

Honey one second Digiful is at the door. I would have loved to see the reaction on the other side. Must have been interesting since WW start blowing your phone. At last you had some thing forceful. This might even lead WW to plead with you if POS had got the fright of his life

[This message edited by goalong at 4:36 PM, April 23rd (Sunday)]

I used to do claims work, and I hired P.I.s all the time . . . and my vote would be for a P.I. planted at the site of the conferences. He could easily blend in as someone documenting the event if film is what you want. If you call a firm in that locality, they will already have a working relationship with the local police and know what they can and can't do, and contacts to get it done. It may be too late now, but even if you can catch them at day two or three, you are bound to learn something.

Well, this was quite a day. WW was scheduled to go away for the next 4 days / 3 nights for a training retreat for her new job. This morning before heading to work I asked her if she had talked to her mom yet, since she had told me that she planned to tell her mom the full truth before she left for her trip. She said no. I asked her if she had, in accordance with my request, scheduled a session for us with a new marriage counselor (because over the weekend, after thinking about our previous counselor's request that she tell me the truth before our next session, she decided that she would never return with me to see that counselor). She said no and that she did not plan to do that before she left on her trip. I reasserted that she needed to do that asap because, while her actions over the past few years had demonstrated that she was fine with the status quo, now that I know more I just want a speedy resolution. I don't want to drag this phase out any longer than needed because frankly it sucks and we both agree that the children are beginning to be aware that there's even more tension than usual between mommy and daddy. As happens every time I assert myself regarding our relationship, she became immediately belligerent. The kids had not gotten on the school bus yet so I just said, "Not right now" and hugged the kids and walked out the door. Once outside, WW immediately called me to berate me for being so unfair in trying to push things along faster than she desired. We argued for maybe a minute until I said I wasn't interested in continuing the discussion any further, I needed to go to work, and so I hung up.

But then I had an idea. I waited about a minute, walked back into the house, and accidentally grabbed her phone from where she had left it lying on the kitchen counter. Not realizing my error, I took her phone with me to my car and went for a drive. I turned into a nearby parking lot, accidentally skimmed her text messages, and noticed that while there were still none from OM since the day when I had confronted her, there were a lot of new texts from a friend I knew had been advising her. I took pictures of the whole thread with my phone. It wasn't easy because my phone kept being interrupted by phone calls every five seconds from our landline and then also from my MIL, but I was able to capture about 95% of the discussion. And it was quite a discussion.

What's the famous saying? That sometimes the coverup is even worse than the crime?

WW and her friend (who enjoys a successful career as a judge and was present at our wedding) had been laughing at how stupid OBS was in continuing to believe OM even after I had tipped her off on Friday. At the same time, WW was expressing frustration (in only the politest terms, of course) that OM was getting off so easily while I hadn't bought her bullshit story at all. They knew this because the friend had been acting as an intermediary between OM and WW, relaying messages so that they could keep their stories straight because they didn't know the nature and quantity of the communication between OBS and me. The friend was also providing WW with tips on how to maintain surreptitious contact with OM (e.g, since talking via their fitbits wasn't working as well as they hoped, and they didn't think they could get away with using their cell phones, why not just set up all the rendezvous during working hours using their office lines?). Some of the interesting revelations:

1) the reason WW belatedly mentioned there had been a kiss a couple years ago is because that was the key "disclosure" OM had made to OBS.

2) the big "reveal" that they were devising, to make it seem like they were coming clean so that they could make the scandal more or less go away and thus make it easier to take the A underground, was that, yes, they had developed romantic feelings for each other but that they had not yet consummated the affair because they knew it would hurt their families. They hadn't yet told us this one, however, because WW feared that it would still result in OBS demanding NC, which WW perceived as a bit too challenging of a hurdle.

3) WW was initially ticked off that OM, after pulling the wool over his wife's eyes, had agreed to go on a series of Romantic Reconnect trips with OBS. WW relaxed a little when her friend pointed out that this was no big threat and was likely just for show, to make it easier for him to carry on the status quo later.

4) OM had told WW that he always keeps $500 in cash in a desk drawer so that he can buy things for WW without arousing his wife's suspicion.

5) WW is very afraid that OBS will confront her since they frequent a lot of the same places (e.g., the gym).

6) WW was having increasing difficulty keeping her mom convinced of her innocence of a PA, so she had the friend call up her mom and tell her some bullshit story to calm her down.

And some other stuff I'm sure I'm forgetting.

After 10-15 minutes, I returned home, apologizing profusely for having taken so long to realize that I had accidentally grabbed my wife's phone. I also thanked her for calling not quite often enough to disrupt my effort to take pictures with my phone. I told her to have a safe trip and I'd talk to her later in the day.

As it turns out, against my wishes she decided not to leave. Actually, she decided she didn't want me to leave either. She refused to let me close my car door and tried for several minutes to wrest my phone away and prevent me from leaving our driveway. Eventually I managed to get away and headed into work, since I was eager to return after having spent the past several days at home dealing with all the various messy effects of her affair. WW called her new boss (the one she hasn't slept with yet) to tell him that she had a family crisis and would have to miss her training trip. (I told her she should still go because there was nothing to worry about from me - I'm not going to run off with the kids or anything - but I suspect her decision to stick around this week is heavily influenced by her concerns about potential new developments in her relationship with OM.). For my part, I shared my newly discovered info with MIL (who I think is still choosing not to believe anything until she hears it directly from the horses mouth) and OBS. OBS hadn't contacted me over the weekend but she contacted me very quickly this time. Interestingly, she said that she never received my initial emails; she wondered if someone had gone into her account and deleted them before she had a chance to open them. After sharing with her what I knew, I told her I'd leave her alone entirely unless/until she reached back out to me again (although I ended up reneging on that promise by emailing her tonight to clarify one of the answers I had given to her questions). And that's pretty much where we're at.

I'm still trying to set up an initial consultation with an attorney. WW called this afternoon to let me know that she had scheduled a meeting for us with a new MC tomorrow night. And our little nuclear family had a nice, quiet evening together at home. (Well, except for when WW walked to the other end of the house to take a phone call. At that moment I followed her and whispered, "hey honey, if you happen to be speaking with [name of her judge friend], tell her BH says she should go fuck herself."

If WW still fails to speak honestly at our mc session tomorrow evening, afterward I may very bluntly inform a relatively large group of our mutual college friends why we will not be attending our planned reunion this summer. Should I not do that?

This actually gets at another question that's been bugging me: is it a problem that my inclination at the moment is to discuss my wife's infidelity with any person who knows us well enough to care? I can't predict the future, but I can think of no scenario in which I'd want to stay in a romantic relationship with WW. I refuse to feel any shame about the A, and so far she's shown herself to be absolutely shameless. Assuming that our kids are not going to find out what happened until years later when they're old enough to handle that kind of (general) information, am I thinking too recklessly?

Digi, you're doing well.

However, I would not give her an more info on your plans, just do what you need to do and get it over with.

I'm not sure I would bother with MC at this point, just get the lawyer and file...you need to get out of this toxic situation as fast as you can.

Get your lawyer and follow their direction...just make sure its a bulldog divorce attorney so you don't get screwed.

Digi,

Wow, you hit the absolute motherlode of information, didn't you? Well done, your sudden impulse to mistakenly acquire the phone was truly inspired.

Well done, too, for sharing the information with the OBS and MIL. Both of them can deal with it as they see fit. If MIL chooses to ignore the hard evidence in favour of a hearts-and-flowers airbrushed partial confession by your WW, so be it. It is for them to figure out. I feel sorry for OBS; she appears to have been fed a lie by the OM and believed it, going by what your WW told her friend. She knows better now, so perhaps the romantic getaways will be put on hold.

It is extremely rare that so much evidence is uncovered, usually it is very patchy due to careful deletions or the use of Snapchat, etc.

Re. the exposure, I don't see why you shouldn't tell everyone who might be interested, regardless of what WW says in the MC session. While your WW has been shamelessly pursuing the affair in front of you (while making absurd denials), she has done her best to hide it from the rest of the world. Why help her in that by not exposing? Why not let everyone know what you have had to put up with for the past few years? Her treatment of you has been appalling, why shouldn't people see that? It can't damage what's left of your marriage any worse than your WW's affair has already done. In your position, I would be telling everyone. Let people see who she really is, and what you have had to deal with.

I agree with OrdinaryDude though; keep your cards very close to your chest. Do not tell her about any of your plans, and do not give her advance warning about any exposure.

I'm still amazed at how much evidence you found; people usually cover their tracks much better!

By the way, I wonder if WW's friend, the judge (!!!) could be sued by OBS for assisting in alienation of affection, or breach of conduct? Should a judge be an active accessory to an affair, passing messages and advising on how not to get caught? Not sure judges are supposed to do that kind of thing...

[This message edited by M1965 at 5:52 AM, April 25th (Tuesday)]

By the way, I wonder if WW's friend, the judge (!!!) could be sued by OBS for assisting in alienation of affection, or breach of conduct? Should a judge be an active accessory to an affair, passing messages and advising on how not to get caught? Not sure judges are supposed to do that kind of thing...

I was thinking the same thing, might want to pass this info on to your divorce attorney, he may have some choice words for the judge, or at least know who would be best to forward it to.

THIS IS HOW YOU DO IT!!!

Amazing update. Incredible job taking control. You're a billion times better off than the betrayeds deciding to live in infidelity by making excuses about how exposing is 'ruining two families instead of one'

If, god forbid, any of my kids are victims of infidelity I'm going to send them your way to advise them.

Bravo. You're above this nasty game she's playing and you're proving it every second with your actions.

A few thoughts digi:

First, great job getting all that info. File under "you da man"!

I would not rush to tell a random assortment of reunion goers. I do like your attitude of not feeeling ashamed and feeling like you don't care who knows. It's empowering. But there's plenty of time down the road to share what happened (probably, the "why you got divorced" with whoever you like). I don't see much of a gain to you at this point.

I would send an email or text to Judge Judas and let her know that you've become aware that she is actively engaged in helping your WW to fuck over you and your children and that you further understand that her actions may violate the Code of Professional Conduct and Code of Judicial Conduct applicable to lawyers and judges, and that if you find out that she has says a single thing to WW from this point forward to help her to continue her illicit affair or to cover her tracks you will take appropriate action with the relevant disciplinary authorities to determine if her conduct is permissible under those governing professional rules of ethics.

Remember The Titanic? You know - big ship, iceberg, Leonardo DiCaprio? Your MIL it's in the string quartet on the deck while the ship is going under. IMHO there is little chance she will do anything other than go down with that ship. I think it's great that you're telling her the ugly truth about her shit daughter - just temper your expectations that the result will be anything other than her standing by your WW and ultimately blaming you for everything. Trust me - it's all gonna be your fault at the end of the day.

I'm not sure why you're going to MC. For one thing, from what I regularly read here your WW needs IC first. But for another thing, it doesn't seem to me like you believe there's anything to do but get divorced. And not that my opinion counts, but I wholeheartedly agree. Are you going to reconcile and accept all this bullshit? I don't think so. Or I hope not brotha.

Hope that helps. Good luck!

[This message edited by Ponus18 at 7:00 AM, April 25th (Tuesday)]

Wow.

Her "successful" judge friend is not a very smart judge to text that conversation to your WW.

Get that consult with an attorney ASAP. Employ the 180 hard and keep it civil in the household until you can get legal guidance. You got your VARs, right? Because here comes the crazy...and I wouldn't put it past the judge friend to show your WW the ins and outs of filing false DV charges.

I would send an email or text to Judge Judas and let her know that you've become aware that she is actively engaged in helping your WW to fuck over you and your children and that you further understand that her actions may violate the Code of Professional Conduct and Code of Judicial Conduct applicable to lawyers and judges, and that if you find out that she has says a single thing to WW from this point forward to help her to continue her illicit affair or to cover her tracks you will take appropriate action with the relevant disciplinary authorities to determine if her conduct is permissible under those governing professional rules of ethics.

I am sure the WW's friend's conduct would count as unethical, which is why I brought it up, but I think it would be good to discuss the best way forward with a lawyer before contacting the judge herself. For a judge, she clearly has very poor judgement, and an official complaint should be made. There's no way it can be okay for a judge to assist an extra-marital affair. The lawyer should be able to advise on this.

Thinking about the MC, scheduled by WW, there really isn't much point to bother going, is there? Even if WW did confess all, which is unlikely , it's a bit late in the day considering you already have a boatload of evidence.

[This message edited by M1965 at 7:22 AM, April 25th (Tuesday)]

This "friend" has to go. You two have zero chance of fixing this if she doesn't go. From what you've written, your wife is not on your team. You can't fix it if you're not on the same team. It's like it's some kind of competition. Planning and plotting against each other. Anticipating each other's next move and strategizing on how to counter it. That's not a marriage. Somehow you two need to decide if you're on the same team. If you are then all the other negative influences need to be exorcised from your marriage. OM's, toxic friends, etc. She doesn't need them. She has you. The course this is taking better change fast or you're doomed.

At this point I think he has already decided to D, unless I read it wrong.

...Judge Judas...

LOL, nice one, P18

This actually gets at another question that's been bugging me: is it a problem that my inclination at the moment is to discuss my wife's infidelity with any person who knows us well enough to care? I can't predict the future, but I can think of no scenario in which I'd want to stay in a romantic relationship with WW. I refuse to feel any shame about the A, and so far she's shown herself to be absolutely shameless. Assuming that our kids are not going to find out what happened until years later when they're old enough to handle that kind of (general) information, am I thinking too recklessly?

I don't think there's anything wrong with your desire to do this. It's the truth after all. You've already informed the most important person (OBS) and exposed to WW's mother. I can't recall if you've shared this with any close friends or family members, but doing so to get the support you need might be a good idea. However, your lawyer may (or may not) advise that you not spread it around much further than that. At least until the divorce is final.

Keep up the good work though, you're doing great so far!

You are handling this way better than I did. There might be other friends that know of the affair. This would help explain why she has been such a big liar. She has other people to discuss the truth with. The "JUDGE" has undoubtedly told her to admit nothing than cannot be "PROVEN". In fact I have a horrible feeling she might have said exactly that!

My only advice to you is keep going and divorcing and exposing. You could explain that you will keep doing this as long as you feel she is still lying. You could bring it up in the MC session. I have a feeling that she will want to talk about all of your failings as a husband (deflecting). I would refuse to discuss anything other than the kids and the affair.

WARNING: Try not to get into any nasty exchanges or let her lead the conversation. Be careful to conduct yourself in a socially acceptable way. Don't give her and her stupid friends ANY muck to throw at you.

Well done so far and good luck

[This message edited by Smillie at 9:16 AM, April 25th (Tuesday)]