SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Two years ago, my wife was acting strange so I started tracking her and immediately caught her having an affair. I felt like I had to confront her and she denied it. She completely "gaslit" me and flipped it all around. She did not convince me, but I love her and we have small kids (including a special needs one) so I sucked it up and pretended I believed her. It's the elephant in the room and I feel that she has tried to apologize in other ways ever since.

It is two years later and our marriage is great, we get along great (always did) and things are better than ever... except this unaddressed issue keeps lingering with me.

Our kids are older now and I have decided that even though things are great in the marriage and home, I cannot continue investing in the marriage unless she tells the truth. My sense of fairness and honesty want me to get to the truth. More importantly, while I accepted the affair, I cannot forgive it bc she never admitted it. And in all reality, how can I trust her when she has never admitted it and she still goes to the gym where the OM is.

Anyway, I really feel that if we cannot get to the truth, I do not want to stay married. I do believe the affair stopped after the confrontation, but there have been no consequences.

I know that she loves me deeply and we're best friends. I believe that I can still love her, but I need to rebuild with honesty. I also believe that it's possible that she will continue the denial until the bitter end bc she is so afraid that I will tell people what she did.

I want to confront her and force her hand and start moving forward either together or separately. Is this crazy? How should I approach this? Any and all thoughts are welcomed!

[This message edited by Ashi at 12:34 AM, May 22nd (Monday)]

OP the best thing you did was come here... there should be a lot more people coming along that will give you great advice. You have to assume the affair is on going.! Or Her affair never stopped just because you caught her she continues to go to the same gym her AP attends not good buddy. affairs are like a drug addiction they have to be cut off cold turkey just like a drug habit so if that's not done you have to assume that she still continues the affair sorry. The uneasiness you feeling it's becaus you rug swept her affair.! People are told to face and deal with the affair both of you should attend IC (dependent counseling) The term Rub sweeping meaning that you didn't not handling and deal with the the situation properly. she has to face consequences you might as well assume that her affair has continue, or will start up a new one.

[This message edited by trojan007 at 1:51 AM, May 22nd (Monday)]

Without proff you will have a very hard time to get her to admit of something that she can always deny and you can only say you think happened.

What should be her goal/reason of admitting to it?

You have a few options, none of them are perfect.

1. Bluff: Say you know something happened and you have proff. That she have this one time to come clean, and tell you everything including the part you do know - and if she doesn't tell that you will leave.

2. Make it safe & Forgive: This most likely will not work, but telling her you love her and you forgive her for doing it but you need to know. There is a fairly big chance that she will lie to you, just so she doesn't have to admit her own bad faults to herself.

3. Draw out the divorce papers, give them to her - and tell her the only way to continue to be married is for the completly truth to come out. That you are willing to leave if she doesn't. This makes it worth it for her to admit it (to stay married).

... But you have to be willing to leave the married for any of those options to work. Best of luck.

btw... You have any idea who the OM was? Could you get anything from him? Threathen to tell his wife or anything for him to tell what happened?

Ashi, I'm sorry you are here. As KindaRandomPerso stressed, the best option is to file for D. I know that there are little ones to consider.

What this does is, usually, knocks her off of her fence. It makes her decide whether the marriage is worth it to her. That's a saying on this site. You have to be willing to lose your marriage in order to save it.

If she comes around before the D is final, that's terrific. You can call it off. If not, why would you want to be with her anyway. If she's going to the same gym, you can bet the A is ongoing.

What consequences has your W faced? You've been through Hell while she "rugsweeps" the entire affair. It's time to stand up for yourself.

There are a few articles pinned on the main page. Take a look at them. If you look to the to left hand corner, in the yellow box, is the healing library. Click on that, then click on articles. There are a ton of things to help.

Read up on the 180. This is your best tactic. It's not to punish her, but it's to help you detach from her. Sometimes this brings them around. That's great, but it's not the main purpose. The main purpose is to get YOU out of infidelity.

You'll realize that most of us are pro marriage here. Many of us have children and many of our children have special needs. With that being said, she has already left your marriage. You are desperately trying to hold onto the idea of what your marriage was.

[This message edited by Wool94 at 2:19 AM, May 22nd (Monday)]

What you wrote here sounds good to start. Tell her that. Then lay out all of the information about the affair, all of the facts, of why you think she had an affair. Maybe write them down and give her a copy. Then emphasize again how much this bothers you to the point that you're not sure you can continue. Call her out on her love for you, tell her that if she tells the truth there you are going to stay and feel better for her truthfulness, and if she can't then you will continue to spiral into a less and less happy existence in this marriage. You may also want to bring up the health issue, also. Even if she used condoms, they are not foolproof, so STDs and pregnancies always are in play. You also may want to bring up the stress and distress you have silently suffered through while she seems so happy about the marriage, your apparent happiness is somewhat of a fake, because you are taking these big bites of shit sandwich every day that she does not at least even have the decency to admit what she has done. What kind of monster is she? Play that up a bit, I think, to get her to understand the importance.

I don't know if you want to let her know that IF you eventually divorce over her lack of truthfulness, you will lay out the exact same facts you just gave her about why you think she had the affair to her family and your family to explain why you are leaving an otherwise happy marriage. Let her know you will not be the "bad guy" when you have had to put up with her having an affair and not at least even giving you the satisfaction of her admitting it. Cheating and lying is not love. If she still denies, you can ask her to take a polygraph, and let her know that you need something because you are so certain that she has cheated, there literally is nothing she can tell you that you will believe her otherwise, and that really her admission is what you need, that no other people will ever know if she did, but you need her to admit it, that is what is bothering you most, not the cheating itself, the lying about it afterward.

By the way, from my observation, it usually is not the affair itself that kills marriages, it is the continued lies afterward. It seems that most spouses can forgive or at least move on about a one-time or one-series bad of decisions like an affair, but cannot tolerate the continued lies ad infinitum. And, unfortunately, the lies continue for years in many cases, even when the cheater admits the affair. Then the cheater minimizes like "it was only kissing" and "never sex" (most common lie on this forum) and then trickles out the rest of the truth bit by bit ("OK, it was sex one time, but we used a condom.")

Cheating and the aftermath is fairly predictable. The denial is common. There is another thread going on right now where the husband actually saw his wife cheating, in person saw it, and the wife still denied it. Only after the guy took video did his wife admit it. Granted, that is an extreme.

Her reputation may be paramount to her, even over your marriage, so be prepared.

I am a big believer of NOT giving any threats or ultimatums. It limits your options. And if you don't do what you say, then you decrease your credibility.

On the other end of this affair is the other man. You can lay out the exact same facts and give it to his wife, and see what she has to offer. You can see if other man will admit.

The usual communication method of cheating is the phone. Texting. Facebook. You can ask her to let you try to recover those messages from two-plus years ago, you can bring them to a computer repair shop and see if they have forensics they can recover.

If your wife continued at the gym with the other man, why do you think she ended the affair?

You can try using this. In general, I find it a little too needy, and in my observation, cheaters who are continuing to lie are too selfish to care about the betrayed's need for details. Frequently tough love works better. But you can give it a try if you want, and then get tougher later if she still doesn't budge.

Joseph's Letter

This is a post by Joseph, a member of the now defunct BAN Message Board. He wrote to this letter to his wife to explain why he asked for details of her affair.

To Whomever,

I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly.

No one wants to be forced to 'look' at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn’t mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn’t he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I’m going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes.

You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge.

You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you’re carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the 'STUFF' to figure out OUR reality. There isn’t really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don’t have.

Now let’s enter my reality. Let’s both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is well affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down.

To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever 'feel' complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are.

When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don’t worry about it, it’s not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don’t worry about it, it’s not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what’s the difference, it’s not important.

Then later when I’m expected to understand the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it.

You wonder why I can’t just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it.

So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don’t you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart.

I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier.

So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together.

It doesn’t come from jealousy, it doesn’t come from spitefulness, and it doesn’t come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn’t it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn’t it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can’t and the reason I can’t is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world.

Thanks all - I have proof and I am willing to destroy my marriage to save it. I think the letter about puzzle picture is nice but not strong enough.

As part of the discussion/confrontation, I intend to say we have 2 paths forward - (1) With honestly together or (2) continued denial but separate

I'm not sure what she will choose - I want her to choose #1 but I fear the embarrassment (if kids and family ever knew) may push her to choice #2. I also think she believes I will divorce her if she admits it.

How would you frame this to her and in what setting?

Also, should I talk to a lawyer? - we have assets and a D will be complex

[This message edited by Ashi at 11:23 AM, May 22nd (Monday)]

Also, should I talk to a lawyer? - we have assets and a D will be complex

I think it would be very wise to consult with an attorney before you give her any sort of ultimatum. Who knows what she'll do when backed into a corner.

How would you frame this to her and in what setting?

I would tell her the truth: You won't continue to be married to her with this lie lingering. She can either suck it up and come out with it or leave the marriage. Her choice. Don't say it if you don't mean it, though. Be ready to mean it.

As for where, my H and I spent a lot of time talking on bleachers at empty soccer fields. I'd avoid any place with other people or distractions.

Have methods in place before you confront. You might catch her telling someone about your confutation. She might tell a friend that my husband is crazy. He thinks that I had an affair. Or my husband will not let my affair go.

You have kids and are getting along. Your wife wants to keep you and doesn’t know what straw will break the camel’s back. So she will only admit to what you already know you or prove.

Put a VAR in her car, software on her phone or a key logger on her computer. Basically any method she might use to contact her friends or the OM.

I would start with asking mild questions about the OM then wait to see what she tells her friends or the OM. Let that settle down then ask about one of the things that makes you suspicious. Monitor her communications then let that settle down. Then repeat with each suspension.

I want to confront her and force her hand and start moving forward either together or separately.

Do not do this unless you have proof she can't explain away. Do not list all the suspicious stuff and then force her. She might admit and then later say she had to falsely admit because it was the only way to keep you.

Never let her know about your methods of monitoring her.

[This message edited by Michigan at 11:40 AM, May 22nd (Monday)]

If you have proof the A occurred, is it based on logic, or do you have real evidence (texts, emails, photos, voice recordings admitting an A, etc.)? Do you have proof of whether it's ongoing or not?

There's no way to force her to tell the truth. I agree with the approach of keeping it simple with something like,

'I believe you lied about having an A. We can move in in one of 2 ways: either you come clean, or we D.'

But if you're wrong about her cheating (and you're probably not wrong), she already has come clean....

See - This is my problem - my DDay happened a few years ago and my evidence is from then. I'm not sure that I will find any new evidence.

My main evidence is "find my iPhone" data which tracks her to an apartment building for several hours on Dday. I the GPS tracking in real time and saw it leave the apartment and go back to where she said she was.

Her main argument against this is that cell phone GPS data is not precise - she claims she was 1/2 mile away. But I took her phone and mirrored both what she said she did and what she really did and the phone gps tracked perfectly

The other evidence includes:

* I have find my iPhone GPS tracking her to and staying at the location on DDay- I was tracking her on Dday.

*I have all of her behaviors which led me to track her.

*I have her lying to me the next day about something that happened - she's unable to explain that.

*I have her working on her iPhone trying to clean up gps location data the day after I confronted her..

But, I do NOT have pictures and I do not have her walking out of the location.

I think that she stopped the affair or at least it is not very active - my point is that I cannot count on new evidence.

this is helpful, please keep your ideas and thoughts coming!!

[This message edited by Ashi at 2:39 PM, May 22nd (Monday)]

You have to get to the bottom of this. She needs to come clean. If not an affair, then why the lies about her whereabouts?

You say she is afraid you will tell people what she did. That would be entirely up to you. At this point, my H and I have decided against telling even close friends and family because we don't want people treating us differently. It's hard to pretend everything is fine with others, but this is between us and I don't want people's opinions and feelings of us to ruin our relationship or the relationships we have with family and friends. We will both go to IC and MC, but we will just say we lost touch and need some extra help. No other details are needed. If you decide to tell people, that's your choice, but you can't unring that bell.

At any rate, you deserve the truth. Gather the evidence you have, write it down, and confront her again. You could even confront the OM or his wife if you think that'll help you get the answers you need. So sorry you're here, but glad you found this great group.

I want to try to work it out with her, but I need the truth.

I don't want to tell anyone about this but I think she will deny it bc she fears that I will have leverage over her forever and then threaten to tell people (or our kids when they are older)... And she will not cede that control to me.

I think I have enough proof but she's viciously effective at arguing and she beat me down hard last time... I never stopped believing that she cheated but she was relentless in wearing me down and very, very detailed and effective at playing the angry innocent wife

I am feeling every bad emotion simultaneously as I type this.

You're sure it's with a guy at the gym and she still sees him when she goes there? I could not stand that. It would eat me alive.

First, you need more evidence, at least I would.

If she has the same phone from then, there is likely a treasure trove of info on it, but you need extended physical access to it.

If necessary, I would make it disappear and take it to someone that knows what they are doing with phones to recover all the deleted data for you.

Simply take it while she is sleeping and shut it off completely, and pull the SIM card.

With the right software you don't need her passcode either.

BUT, find someone that can do this for you before you make a move at all.

Hell, if you lived close, I could do it.

First, you need more evidence, at least I would.

If she has the same phone from then, there is likely a treasure trove of info on it, but you need extended physical access to it.

It is quite unlikely that it will contain any recoverable information from 2 years ago. Unless she used her phone strictly for calls and texts, the memory will be overwritten with more recent data over and over again.

This is still worth trying.

See my comment about GPS track in your other thread.

Cut right to the chase.

Either she takes a polygraph or the marriage no longer continues.

Those are her ONLY 2 choices.

Period.

Since you don't have real proof, I see 4 alternatives for you:

1) polygraph;

2) accept what she says as the truth;

3) sit down with her, tell her you're so unhappy you're considering D, ask her to come clean, and decide how to respond to her response;

4) file for D.

I've never thought highly of polygraphs, but it seems like your best bet ... or just file for D.

No. You don’t need more evidence.

Chances are infidelity won’t factor at all in divorce. For that you don’t need more evidence. What you need is a clearer indication of what’s the truth. An indication that’s good enough to convince you.

What I would suggest you do is simply outline your worries:

Tell her that you are willing to work through ANYTHING and are appreciative of the marriage you have now.

But tell her your insecurities due to your concern she had an affair is holding you back and will prevent the marriage from being what it could be.

Either your concerns have no base but your constant obsession about them will damage the marriage.

Or they are true and her guilt at keeping a secret will damage the marriage.

Make it clear that NO MATTER WHAT then your first choice will always be to save the marriage.

If she still insists nothing happened, then tell her that’s not good enough for you and if she would be willing to take a polygraph test. Make it clear that the purpose of the test is mainly to convince you that she’s telling the truth. If she is then its maybe an hour of her time and that’s all that’s needed to help YOU become a better husband.

Fundamentally, to this point her winning strategy has been lying. You need to transform the situation so that her winning strategy is the truth. Give some serious pondering, also, on what "winning" means to her. How does being truthful make her feel better about herself? Always keep that in mind.