SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

This is the reconciliation forum correct? Not looking for sprinkles and sunshine but it feels like some awareness of a goal might be called for.

Some members are a little overprotective -- and that vibe tends to show up completely unvarnished, but they mean well.

I certainly don't feel I'm there yet. If it's interesting to me that is how I'm coming across.

I don't read your posts as accepting anything yet. To me it seems like you are taking all the steps you need to take to see if your partner can learn to be safe for you. From there, if possible, then you get to decide if you want to accept any of this or not.

And more counseling seems like it has to happen before you can make the informed decision you're looking for.

Tim

First, sorry you are here again. Second, forgive me for being blunt, but this is your second go-round. Yes you are on a reconciliation forum, and at 50, you feel that you have invested a ton of time into this marriage. The sunk-cost fallacy applies here. To be frank, you are causing yourself more psychological damage by remaining in a marriage with a serial cheater. Especially one who sleeps with two OM on the same day. The marriage and you mean so very little, that she chose to sleep with two guys on the same day rather than keeping herself for you and her family. Forget reconciliation, you will never get peace or a safe partner. Another consideration and one that causes a lot of my male clients to sit up and take notice while their spouses are, shall we say, stupefied. Currently, there is a dearth of good solid older single males, whereas there is a surplus of older single women. The first reason is that females outlive males by 5-7 years, the second? Good males are snapped up quickly in this market. I have had numerous 40-ish to 60-ish women sit across from me, and lament that when they blew up their marriages, they thought that there were available men in their age group, only to find the available ones are pretty well "picked-over". I have very few older single male clients, they do not stay single very long. The women OTOH, are getting older. Very few find a partner. Your wife, in blowing up this marriage, will find herself on the outside looking in. You, on the other hand, I would recommend that you seek a divorce and find a good woman who will NOT BETRAY YOU.

^^^ unfair and scary to me.

To be frank, you are causing yourself more psychological damage by remaining in a marriage with a serial cheater.

How do you know this? I'm curious.

You, on the other hand, I would recommend that you seek a divorce and find a good woman who will NOT BETRAY YOU.

How does one guarantee the next partner will be faithful? I'm more than curious about that question....

[This message edited by sisoon at 2:09 PM, June 22nd (Thursday)]

How does one guarantee the next partner will be faithful? I'm more than curious about that question....

No guarantees. But, I'm pretty sure by divorcing my ex my odds of having a faithful partner have improved exponentially

How does one guarantee the next partner will be faithful? I'm more than curious about that question....

So stay with a known cheater. Someone that may or may not have genuine remorse, may "get it", may try to make amends, may repeat offend, etc.

Or simply try to pick better on the next go around with a wealth of knowledge on what to look for. For me, the total opposite of my WW

What Taxi said about "mature" women is true. If a man is educated, has most of his teeth, some hair, not 100lbs overweight, a few interesting hobbies, articulate, and a steady income, he is in demand. I see it in my peer group at work.

The problem is the 50ish year old dudes in that category want 35yr old or younger girlfriends.

How does one guarantee the next partner will be faithful

No way to know or sure. But you do sure as hell know that who you are currently with can and does cheat.

If you have been bitten by a pitbull 2+ times (a serial cheater) you do not have to get another pitbull. There are lot of labs out there, very friendly.

How does one guarantee the next partner will be faithful? I'm more than curious about that question....

While there is no guarantee, a prenup sends a powerful message.

To be frank, you are causing yourself more psychological damage by remaining in a marriage with a serial cheater.

I tend to agree with this too, I lived with depression for 25+ years after my WW's first A, and if I could turn back the clock, I'd have D after that first time...and yes I'm still with her and completely adore her, but I still would D after that first time if I could do it all over again.

The hookups sound very nonchalant, and you discovered it, ...this time. Are you sure this hasn't been going on more?

My wife's behavior was very similar. If she could give a mirror a blow job to make herself look better, she would. FOO issues, low self esteem, living with shame, and maintaining a bubble.

Please remember that this is the Reconciliation Forum. Although you may not agree with the OP, you must please post respectfully.

I understand my W has already cheated, so maybe she's more likely to cheat in the future.

At the same time, it may be that she's a remorseful WS, one who is changing from cheater to good partner, and she's therefore less likely to cheat.

One of my points is that we just don't know the details of what the future will bring. We can choose D, R, or waiting for more data, but choosing D because one thinks the next partner - if any - will be faithful is a bad choice. We cannot predict much more than a few minutes into the future, and we can't control anybody but ourselves.

The other point I wanted to make is that, in all probability, no one here knows Tim, so no one knows any more about the damage he's experiencing than what he's told us.

Further, even if he's getting damaged by staying with his W, it's possible that D would be even more damaging. And in any case, Tim sounds like he's dealing with this with a lot of strength.

I urge posters NOT to write with certainty about things that you cannot know with certainty.

I urge posters not to write your opinions as if they're facts.

Assuming her FOO are major contributors to her behavior, those kinds of issues really never go away. Most people who survive childhood trauma don't change much, it's the gift of a lifetime. The best most folks can get to is to finally understand why they feel & behave the way they do - something that relieves a lot of internal struggle. But modifying a survival behavior learned in childhood is rarely going to happen.

"Really never go away"... The best they can get to is to understand???

While it is hard work, and according to our MC most do give up before experiencing real change, it IS possible. I know from personal experience. I survived an extremely traumatic childhood and am not the person I was in my 20s and early 30s. I have completely changed my coping techniques and have learned how to be a mature adult with healthier communication skills.

This is a very broad and unfair generalization.

Did these responses help at all man?

Some really did but to be honest the ugly ones really outweighed the value of the positive ones when one is already struggling with self doubt. I started to feel it was not healthy for where I was to engage further.

I decided to focus my efforts on myself and work with a licensed therapist for most of my guidance right now.

Thanks to those who tried to offer support. We are both working through it right now.

I'm a little late to this party, but I wanted to throw in my 2 cents, anyway.

IF the first Dday was rugswept and this one isn't... ok. I can see trying again.

Kind of like an addict who tries to quit, but hasn't yet hit rock bottom and doesn't find the tools to quit. If you think she's hit rock bottom - this time - and sustains the work and empathy... I can see trying again.

Look, I truly believe my FWH is the safest person I could ever be with now. Why? Because NOW he is the most self-aware, non-conflict-avoidant, honest, transparent person with ironclad boundaries I've met. If he hadn't been desperate to keep me, the woman he truly loves, if he hadn't been desperate to become the man of integrity that he always believed he was we wouldn't be here now. But he did want those things - more than anything he'd ever wanted.

I made him prove it, of course. It took a lot of time before I believed it, but just over the 2 year mark I did. Not because he does the right things and doesn't do the wrong things, but because he actually has changed who he is.

He used to believe that fun was getting falling down drunk and being the life of the party. He now sees how pathetic that was. Now he knows that fun is in times spent with family, with friends, camping, concerts, travel, a few glasses of wine, sure... etc. Simpler things.

He used to dislike who he was. As he got older, he felt invisible. He wasn't the cool guy anymore. He was losing his hair. Gaining some weight. Now he realizes that getting old is better than the alternative. He's good in his skin. He can joke about his age (that was a NO-NO before). He likes himself.

He used to be terrified of conflict, believing everyone should be happy all the time. Now he sees conflict as a means of connection. Paradoxical but true. It might be the biggest shift in our relationship and that makes him safer, too!

Because he isn't avoiding conflict, he is speaking up regarding his needs, his feelings. This is huge because someone who can't speak up, has no voice and is powerless in a relationship. That is a recipe for disaster because the ultimate way to grab power back is through an affair. Now that his needs are getting met, that makes him safer, too!

See, these are examples of actually fixing your Why's. It almost doesn't matter (to me) what FWH's FOO issues were. They may have helped create the why's, but understanding them doesn't fix them. They're fixed through self-talk and learning new strategies.

It's not all doom and gloom. It can be done.

If the first dday wasn't rugswept and your WW had ostensibly done the work and you were here again years later, ok I'd say cut and run. But it doesn't sound like that's the case.

Best wishes.