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Oh, and she keeps bringing up that she really needs me to be there to help her raise our kids as if I'm going to suddenly flake out on her and not provide her alimony or step up to raise our children. Victim mentality.

[This message edited by squid at 12:47 PM, June 28th (Wednesday)]

I got home this afternoon from work and I can tell WW wants to chat.

If I can file tomorrow, I will. I need to get my parenting plan and and pertinent children's info, plus notarizations to my attorney and she can legitimately file for me. Probably Friday, if I'm efficient enough. I'm not going to tell WW. At this point, I don't see what telling her would do.

I don't even care. I just want this over.

Yeah, I suck at the 180.

We got into this evening. We ended up realizing that she never afforded me the trust to ever evolve past the issues that she held against me.

Never forgave me. Still she resents me....but doesn't cuz that would be douchey on her part.

Sounds like she has been in victim mentality the whole time. The great thing about 6 months (for me at least). Anger phase. You will naturally just think, "Why the Hell am I here? Is this person even worth it?" Then it all becomes about you and living your life while you 180 them into the Lethal Plain of Flatness. The 180 will happen naturally when you are ready for it. That is when your wife will either step up or step out.

Right now she sounds like some WW's that have been here before. She is probably thinking, "Why didn't you learn your lesson when I cheated and change into the man of my dreams and earn me back. This is all your fault if you weren't so mean and controlling. I am the victim here. I have had such a horrible life."

Sorry not feeling the love for victim wayward wives mentality. Too much Dateline.

Right now she sounds like some WW's that have been here before. She is probably thinking, "Why didn't you learn your lesson when I cheated and change into the man of my dreams and earn me back. This is all your fault if you weren't so mean and controlling. I am the victim here. I have had such a horrible life."

That is honestly the most accurate description. Especially the part about her "horrible life". I recognize that the M had issues. But trying to explain the significance of her A to her is like reasoning with a brick wall. She just wants to look past it and go straight to focusing on the M. If I bring it up, she shuts down.

Sounds like she has been in victim mentality the whole time. The great thing about 6 months (for me at least). Anger phase. You will naturally just think, "Why the Hell am I here? Is this person even worth it?" Then it all becomes about you and living your life while you 180 them into the Lethal Plain of Flatness. The 180 will happen naturally when you are ready for it. That is when your wife will either step up or step out.

If she would "step up" and show me consistently that she wants to focus her energy on helping rebuild our M, I would gladly abandon pursuing D. But all I've seen is waffling between nervous interest to indifference. This is the wayward mindset, right? I've been trying really hard to understand it.

So much great advice on here for you. What a great group here on SI.

My biggest take out of much of your struggle, and this is only 1 piece of it, but I would strongly suggest that you get your own IC. I know how hard that sounds, I know it took a lot for you to pour your heart out to the one you have now, but I do not feel that this IC is doing you any justice. I will not comment as to whether they are a good or bad IC, I will just say that having been there (allowing my H to use the IC I had found cuz it was just "easier") was a mistake on my part. The IC will look at you both and ask you if you are OK with them helping you both, but they also understand that truly it is a conflict of interest.

You are feeling overwhelmed, you want your WW to "get it". I am proud of you that you have an appointment with your attorney this Friday, I will just also say that you need to quietly (meaning without telling your WW what you are doing) is start to detach yourself from the same IC, then also start to work on that 180 some more.

You are trying to do something that is way too difficult, you are trying to separate yourself from what your WW has done, but emotionally you are staying attached to your WW. We all have done it, very hard to grasp the concept of detaching from the person who we felt was our best friend along with our spouse.

Your healing will start to accelerate when you stop talking to her about everything, stop going to the same IC, get your own and stop telling her what you are doing and how you are feeling.

I don't mean to be harsh, I truly mean this as a way to help you see that whether you 2 part ways or stay together, this healing with someone like her who plays the victim role is not going to happen until you can get some clear distance from it. Put the oxygen mask on you first and work on helping yourself.

She just wants to look past it and go straight to focusing on the M. If I bring it up, she shuts down.

This is standard wayward garbage too. Don't soften. There may have been issues in your marriage, and you are almost certainly responsible for 50% of that, BUT, a rational, loving, good person doesn't go out and have an affair as a result - they confront their fears and problems and communicate.

It's like she's set your house on fire, but wants to talk about fixing the leaky faucet in the midst of the inferno.

The affair is what's going to destroy your marriage - it needs to be dealt with first, or you don't have a marriage worth saving.

read what realitybites said. she's been here a while and knows the drill.

This is the wayward mindset, right? I've been trying really hard to understand it.

I am not sure. When does a person stop being wayward and start being just who they are as a person? It may just be her true colors. I think they are all selfish, but in "wayward mindset" they let that selfishness take center stage. The "wayward things and the wayward decision making" drive the bus. But, under that is still who they are. At some point in R my husband took control and became his usual self. Not great, but better than he was during the affair and immediately after. Then he decided to change. When he hit rock bottom of course I had 180 harder than an iceberg. He became disgusted with himself. I can't imagine how anyone would have the motivation to change if they think they are entitled by victim mentality or have resentment to the point of justifying their affair on a controlling husband.

Her coping skills might change and she may never have another affair, but deep down she will always think it was your fault and you "pushed" her to it. When in reality it was her mindset (needs and wants)and her reactions (coping mech) that placed her where she is in life. It was her desires, needs, values, and wants that she sets. If they weren't being met, then it was her responsibility to either evaluate them and ask herself if they were realistic, change them if they needed to be, communicate, accommodate, compromise, or divorce. What ever she chooses. Not infidelity. Everything comes down to what a person can control; their value sets and their reactions to when those aren't met. The other half of the equation is who they are. You have no control over that. Even if a marriage is bad, why blame the other half? It is like expecting a tiger to act like a house cat. The problem doesn't lie with the tiger. The problem lies with the person thinking the tiger should be a house cat. It is the mentality of people that marry someone expecting to change them and they already are dissatisfied with their partner before they ever marry them. People always seem to blame the stimuli instead of focusing on what they can control.

This depends so much on you and how you can handle it. Can you heal yourself and go on while she figures her stuff out? I was able to do that, but I had a great support network. My husband made progress over that length of time that met my ability to give him a chance. It took my husband almost 2 years to step up and "get it/own it". Yet, he didn't behave exactly like your wife. He didn't have an exit affair either. Just the typical cake eater. It would be nice to hear from any other BH that had WW who had exit affairs and see from them how long it took for their wives to "get it" or if they ever do.

I am not sure I would have ever tried R with someone that had an exit affair. In the back of my mind I would always wonder if they stayed for some materialistic reason or if they resented me. I would like to think I wouldn't. Exit affairs are just so discouraging on a whole other level. I can understand cake eaters. I can't understand women cheating in what they label bad relationships with the intention of leaving, then staying. Seems to me they are extremely needy and broken because either their relationship is truly abusive (making them already crazy for staying) or their expectations are so high and self-centered that no one could meet their demanding nature. Either way, most of the posts from WW who had exit affairs and stayed never seem very joyful. They seem very resentful and whiny. Very entitled still. I couldn't live with a person like that.

Our DS's will live with me as I am the primary breadwinner and my WW believes that they should be raised primarily by me. So they will stay in the marital home. And be with her every other weekend or, as WW says, "if they want to even stay with her".

As painful as this all is and will be, the more I think about the future apart from her, the more the sense of relief slowly washes over me.

Keeping the house & the kids sounds like a grand slam home run. I mean, ultimately you are keeping the important pieces of your life in place while vacating a toxic life-sucking shit-storm from it. No re-locating...no lamenting much lost time w/ the kids. That temporary "relief" you feel will become your new everyday reality. Imagine waking up every morning not having to do this suffocating circle jerk w/ ur WW everyday.

HopefulMother,

I can't imagine how anyone would have the motivation to change if they think they are entitled by victim mentality or have resentment to the point of justifying their affair on a controlling husband.

Her coping skills might change and she may never have another affair, but deep down she will always think it was your fault and you "pushed" her to it. When in reality it was her mindset (needs and wants)and her reactions (coping mech) that placed her where she is in life. It was her desires, needs, values, and wants that she sets. If they weren't being met, then it was her responsibility to either evaluate them and ask herself if they were realistic, change them if they needed to be, communicate, accommodate, compromise, or divorce. What ever she chooses. Not infidelity.

Very wise words. Taking responsibility for her role in the state of our M was always half-hearted. She would claim responsibility. But never culpability. I was always at fault. She even recently blamed at least 70% of the problems on me. And being the doormat that I was, I accepted her damnation. But I see I may have enabled her broken mindset to emerge and "take center stage", as you say. I'm no perfect husband, but she has held on to resentment for things that happened in our marriage almost a decade ago.

I know it's early yet, but I'm worried that her IC is only focusing on how the state of the M pushed her to infidelity and not her broken mindset.

I am not sure I would have ever tried R with someone that had an exit affair. In the back of my mind I would always wonder if they stayed for some materialistic reason or if they resented me. I would like to think I wouldn't. Exit affairs are just so discouraging on a whole other level. I can understand cake eaters. I can't understand women cheating in what they label bad relationships with the intention of leaving, then staying. Seems to me they are extremely needy and broken because either their relationship is truly abusive (making them already crazy for staying) or their expectations are so high and self-centered that no one could meet their demanding nature. Either way, most of the posts from WW who had exit affairs and stayed never seem very joyful. They seem very resentful and whiny. Very entitled still. I couldn't live with a person like that.

I'm thinking really hard on this.

[This message edited by squid at 1:31 PM, June 29th, 2017 (Thursday)]

Squid wrote:

We ended up realizing that she never afforded me the trust to ever evolve past the issues that she held against me.

Never forgave me. Still she resents me....but doesn't cuz that would be douchey on her part.

Hopefulmother owned it and wrote:

She is probably thinking, "Why didn't you learn your lesson when I cheated and change into the man of my dreams and earn me back. This is all your fault if you weren't so mean and controlling. I am the victim here. I have had such a horrible life."

Bluntly, she's a child. You grew up, she did not. Simple as that, IMO.

She may grow up someday, or perhaps not. No longer your issue. I think now you are at the root of it all in understanding, where you weren't sure a month or two ago.

D and live your life. If she grows up, wants you back, and you are available, great (also buy a lottery ticket!). If not, be free or she will let you support her and her resentment of you forever.

go well -- IDK

I'm so sorry, but she's being awfully selfish. Proceed with your plan and your divorce. If she changes for the better and you're up for it, then great and you can R then. If not, you're on your way to a new life.

1. My IC refused to be our MC, said it was not possible to do justice to both roles, that it would be unfair to my H. Yep.

2. When/if a wayward has an A and stays married by getting the BS to accept any/most/all responsibility, my opinion is that A) the wayward continues on with unhealthy coping skills and conflict avoidance preferences (unsafe!) and B) loses respect for their BS on a subconscious level because they know they were wrong but that the BS just does not have the strength or self-esteem to hold them accountable.

3. If this is truly about your terrible M, then it was an exit A so let her go. You can't nice someone back who supposedly is already gone, since that is how they justify what they did. It is almost like they have to leave to live with what they did, so just let her go and work on you. If SHE wants a new M, she can beg for that. Beg. And you two can begin from there.

I am so sorry, but you need to let go. When you let go, your options and power will return to you.

I'm no perfect husband, but she has held on to resentment for things that happened in our marriage almost a decade ago.

There's no such thing as a perfect husband (or wife). But my non-cheating current DH is a wonderful man. Is he perfect - of course not. But not only do I admire and love him - I actually like him.

Of course I could list spousal transgressions from a decade ago (but not cheating). I know that he could too. I cringe when I hear people trying to justify cheating because their spouse and their marriage was not "perfect".

I freaking broke down on the way home from men's group tonight. We've got a nice regular group of men dealing with divorce and separation from spouses that are all pretty much cray-cray. It's heartbreaking watching these big grizzly bear men breaking down, bewildered at what the women they once loved turning into monsters. BDP. NPD. Bipolar. Take your pick.

I'm the only one dealing with infidelity while one guy is a serial cheater. That guy, I have no pity for. I simply want to lay into him but I never get the chance. That's another story.

I just want this pain to end. Living with an unremorseful WS is a circle of hell that few outside of SI can truly understand.

squid, it's OK to break down, I never understand why a lot of men think they shouldn’t, it's your right to do it whenever you feel like it, it's your safety valve kicking in to stop you from going bat shit crazy while you come to terms and process this shit you have to get through.

Me I'm a bubbler, hell my eyes even fill up when watching a sad heart wrenching film, my wife teases me when she see's my eyes fill up, but she has also said, it's one of the reasons I love you so much, because I know you care about others feelings and are a good man, and I think you are just like me, you don't like and hate what your EXW has done to you, but you don't hate her in as much as you wish she was dead!

You just want her out of your life so you can heal and live once again, and given the time it will.

Soldier on my friend soldier on.

Regards BJE49

I cringe when I hear people trying to justify cheating because their spouse and their marriage was not "perfect".

I know. I'm realizing this may very well be a lost cause. I can honestly say I tried. No one can say that I didn't put as much effort into this as I could. It's been a one-sided marriage for many years. Clapping with one hand.

Stick a fork in it. It's done. God this hurts.

Spammers

[This message edited by SI Staff at 6:36 PM, July 1st (Saturday)]

Huh?