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I'm not sure I even buy it that it was meaningless for WH and OW.

He maintains that the relationship was a friendship turned into casual sex. Each cared nothing for the other. According to him he 'used' her to boost his ego and there was certainly no love involved from either side. For all intents and purposes it was just sex.

I suppose that 'am I fooling myself' or 'is he fooling me' would be separate question to this.

Taking out of the equation whether I think this type of dynamic is even possible.. Is it easier to R knowing the OP didn't mean anything to the WS..

Well, as someone who is a regular on the Emotionless Infidelity thread in I Can Relate, and whose WH used massage parlors and escorts for many years, the most I can say is R is not easy. It is not easy to R with someone who made the repeated choice to betray my trust, betray our vows, expose myself and my kids to STDs, and all for something that was supposedly "meaningless." I say supposedly because there was some meaning to it, in the sense that it met some need (ego kibbles, stress relief, whatever) in the WS. It meant something - just not that they AP/WS had feelings for each other. Does that make sense?

I can't compare my challenges to the challenges of those whose WS had feelings for their APs. This is a similar question that pops up here about which betrayals hurt more and/or are easier to forgive. I'll go back to the classic SI phrase - the worst kind is the one happening to you.

The other thing I ask when I see these questions is why it even matters. You are the only one in your situation. So even if everyone whose WS had meaningless sex says "oh yes, R was easy" (and I seriously doubt you could find a single one) - that doesn't mean it is easy for you. There are no "shoulds" - as in "it should be easier" or "should hurt less." We all feel how we feel, and that is our truth.

Casual sex or not, the fact is that he did it. I don't buy the "just to boost my ego" thing. He knew it was wrong but made the choice to do it either way.

Yeah ... I don't see sex as ever being meaningless.

Even when paying for it, there's some reason for making that choice, and where there's a reason, there's meaning.

I understand your question because I've asked it many times to myself. My WS had a drunken ONS with a co-worker. They were barely acquaintances and are certainly not friends nor have any emotional attachment to one another.

That being said, it hasn't made it easier thus far. At times I wish they believed themselves to be in love with one another so that I could justify throwing in the towel and leaving, which is what I would do. So from that aspect, the fact that R is even on the table for me is because it was a meaningless ONS that was a lack of poor boundaries and selfishness.

There isn't a yes/no answer to your question. It's all about how YOU feel about it. Don't let others tell you how to feel, you're the one that has to live with this.

HHmom2 my WH claims to have had the same sort of A, only they weren't casual friends--he was her boss. But neither had any attachment at all--strictly sex. For TWO FREAKING YEARS. I don't know whether this makes it easier or harder to R, but it sure does make it impossible to believe a damn thing he says!

I have had a hard rime with this too and questioned it . I finally asked my IC. She said it varies but is entirely possible that there were no real feelings to it. It depends on the H and reasons he did not in the first place. In my H's case she thought it was entirely possible. It is so hard to wrap my mind around it.

I'm not sure that R would ever be easy. Mine is hard as hell is all I can say and I have read other situations that sound even worse.

Lord help every broken heart in this site

[This message edited by Jesusismyanchor at 5:54 PM, June 22nd (Thursday)]

Don't think any of this is easier. But on the word "meaningless" if you meant without affection, without love or emotion--I do think some these "habits"--maybe many--are meaningless in that sense--but does it make anything better? For who? Sometimes I think I could better understand if my H had had a love affair--I'd be far more hurt than disgusted but think I could understand. But I can't know and wouldn't take a risk on a trade.

My H indulged for over ten years in what could be described as meaningless--like ten years of twice weekly visits to massage parlors for massage and hjs. I accept "meaningless" as far as emotion goes but that does not make me incllined to "reconcile." To what would I be reconciling? With whom? Does it make it easier to know I live with someone who could sacrifice our relationship, his reputation, his job and professional license, even risk jail for something "meaningless?" No, seems even crazier, sicker, more pathetic. Does it help to accept that he didn't even think he was risking anything. . . that he just didn't think much at all? Nope.

But HH what difference does it make what anyone else thinks or finds easier/harder? Don't we all just have to deal with the hand we were dealt? If twenty people told me they rather have my nightmare than theirs I don't think it would make my dreams any better.

Here's hoping you can soon find your peace and your joy again--and things that are deeply meaningful to you.

HH- it's devastating with no "attachment". I'm just about 2 1/2 years out from DDay and I'm still a wreck about the NSA affairs. On the bright side I don't have AP stalking me or trying to come back in WS life or having to run in to them (from reading other people's remarks). Hey one positive thing But everything else is negative with added different concerns. Youll still wonder and never understand why, your world will still be totally crushed and no longer true, your trust and respect is gone. There's no easy about it.

Everyone's is unique in its own fucked up way! I did a similar thread and it's true, the one that happens to you hurts the most! I don't think I could forgive if it was more than once tho, how can it be meaningless if you keep going back?

I think it's pretty rare when a cheater chooses to shoot themselves squarely in the foot by being honest with their BS and admitting how passionate or hot the sex with their AP actually was. A handful have from all I've seen here on SI, but the overwhelming majority were told basically what you were told, HHmom2 - that it was 'meaningless' or 'mediocre' or 'boring' and some have claimed it made them 'throw up.'

Amazingly enough, these same cheaters went back for more of that 'mediocre, meaningless, boring, and vomit-worthy' sex again and again and again and again ad nauseum.

Truth is, the ONLY ones who know the truth are the two people who engaged in it. We only have the claims of our cheaters to go by - that's really the bottom line. And while they may suck royally for cheating, they're not mind-numbingly stupid enough to be that brutally honest with us.

I think it's easier for the WS to drop the AP after being found out when it is just casual sex with no real feels, so in that case, I think it's easier for for the BS to "see" that the WS essentially picks you and the marriage. Does it make the fact that the WS was willing to jeopardize and toss your life to the side over something meaningless any easier to process, nope.

My WH actually hated his AP, but she worshiped the ground he walked on. The day the A was exposed to me, he was greatful that he didn't ever have to see her again. The OW used the A as an exit affair. She was "in love" with my WH and wanted to leave her BS for him (not sure why as he treated her like a $.02 whore) and her BH was unable to get her out of the fog for a long time. My WH never had any intentions of leaving me for her, but she had convinced herself that they were going to run away and live happily ever after. She continued to try to find ways to contact him for weeks after d day.

All that to say, yes it's easier, and no, it's not easier in my opinion.

"denorock" - Boy ain't that right!!!!

I wasn't told even half the truth until h's whore started her fatal attraction bullshit some months later. At one of the many court hearings, my h walked up to whore and her h (her h was my h's best friend mind you) and told whore that the feelings they had for each other no longer existed. YET, on the onset of catching him, he lied and denied until the first Glenn Close bunny boiler court hearing. Up until then he would tell me that it was just a peck on the cheek, then just a quick kiss, then a kiss with mouths closed, then, then, then. He would always end his statement with, "it didn't even mean anything, it wasn't a big deal." Hum, is that why my cheating asshole h went back over and over again for 2 months? If it meant nothing, then he sure made it a point to plan out his visits for his bi-weekly blow jobs.

I wouldn't ever believe a cheater who says it was meaningless or that it was just casual sex. And IF IT WAS, then that makes the cheater even more of a fuck for destroying their marriage while stabbing the spouse in the back and turning the knife many times over simply for a MEANINGLESS act.

[This message edited by TICKED OFF at 1:59 PM, June 23rd (Friday)]

Is it easier to R knowing the OP didn't mean anything to the WS..

Meaningless?

Meaningless as in they thought enough of each other to betray spouses, marriages, children, friends to be together and have sex?

No disrespect, but I think anyone who buys into lines like that- that the OP was in any way meaningless needs to reevaluate. They AP was more meaningful than their spouses, children or marriages. Doesn't sound meaningless to me.

If my XWW ever gave me that crap line I hope I slapped her in the mouth. Meaningless? What a lie.

[This message edited by thatbpguy at 2:05 PM, June 23rd (Friday)]

Agree with the others. I don't think one type of betrayal is any easier than another. It is all heart breaking, disgusting and unfathomable.

It didn't mean anything is a callous cop out remark.

It must have meant something or why else do it?

Perhaps it was for the sex but that did mean something. Him getting his rocks off was more important and had more meaning to him that you, your marriage or your health.

It meant it was worth the time he put into the affair and covering his lying ass.

To D or R is based on what and how he is owning his behavior, how he is doing the heavy lifting to help you heal and to stop making excuses for his flings.

Still sounds like he is being self righteous and wants to sweep it under the rug because according to him "it didn't mean anything".

Well he crushed you so it does mean something to you. And he has to acknowledge and own that.

Sorry.

[This message edited by 1Faith at 2:11 PM, June 23rd (Friday)]

To D or R is based on what and how he is owning his behavior, how he is doing the heavy lifting to help you heal and to stop making excuses for his flings.

Still sounds like he is being self righteous and wants to sweep it under the rug because according to him "it didn't mean anything".

This.

I had a situation very similar to TheBlindSided (my fWW had a little too much to drink while on a business trip and had a ONS with someone she barely knew). My fWW came home and confessed about it right away and told me that she had no feelings for the guy and it was “just sex,” purely animalistic lustful, meaningless sex.

At the time her portrayal of “just sex” did not reduce the pain at all of her betrayal. Early on in our recovery I felt that her ability to just have meaningless sex with a random stranger made the situation even worse. I did not know at the time that she was even capable of compartmentalizing like that and just having meaningless sex.

In hindsight I now feel it was better that it was just a ONS with no emotional attachment. Had she come back from her business trip and told me she had feeling for some guy we surely would have divorced which would have had detrimental impact on our two young kids.

The fact that she was completely honest with me, answered all of my questions, and (after a few weeks) demonstrated deep remorse allowed me to forgive her and work through a very difficult first year to recovery. But, I have to admit, if we would not have had children I would have divorced her. She also knows that, kids or not, if it happens again we will divorce.

if we would not have had children I would have divorced her.

....and that it where I'm having a hard time. We do not have kids, we've new to the marriage but have been together 8 years.

The though keeps replaying in my head though of the what-if I allow R and this happens years down the road and we may have a family at that time. I'll feel like the worlds biggest idiot for allowing myself to stay in the M.

At the same time, it's hard not to think about all the good we have shared together and throwing it all away for 1 night of betrayal.

It's an infinite loop of what-ifs and I don't think there is ever going to be a clear answer. So as for me...i'm stuck in the middle for now.

betrayedbyONS...so based on your post are you saying in the relationship you now have, you regret staying together??

I don't know if it's easier because I have nothing to compare it to. WH had one PA, which was one too many, and he felt nothing for OW. She was an object to him. And the sex wasn't good, either, in part because he felt nothing for her. I do find some comfort in that it was no great love affair. He was actually treating her like crap so that' she would break it off with him. He didn't want to be the bad guy and breakbit off with her, yet he did when I confronted him about the numerous texts and gave him an ultimatum, her or me, he dropped her immediately. So he became the bad guy anyway. What an asshat!

I understand the meaning of meaningless sex here, and I too heard that from my wife. It was meaningless and also it was not about the sex. Let me say, when sex is involved it is always about the sex. If it weren't for the sex none of it would happen. To say that all the sex that happened in an affair was somehow made less significant because it was not about that is nonsense. My wife used to insist that it was about controlling and getting the attention she craved and the sex was just the ticket to getting what she needed. But I think that is just semantics. Of course it was all about the sex because without that there would be no affair. If her AP had been willing to give her the attention she craved but in exchange he needed to be bathed in mud and spoon fed anchoves twice a week, I'm sure she would have moved on to someone else that would have fed her need for attention where sex was the typical affair exchange rate.

It is always about the sex in one way or another.