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It sounds like you have a starting point. You were acting childish and selfish. Why that reaction? It won't be an easy journey, but it sounds like you want to work on yourself, which is great! I will say hearing I don't know come from my WH is really irritating and scary. He also says he'll never cheat again, but he didn't think he would before until he did. Unless he figures it out and fixes it, I'm not too confident in his answers...

None of this easy but you are worth it.

Random Thought/Rant/I don't even know ---Every time I hear someone say a variation of this, even friends here local, I want to scream at them. I want to tell them that its not about me, its about him. I don't matter, he does. He is the one that matters, he is the one that was hurt, he is the one that's worth something. Hate me, I deserve that, yell at me, tell me how much of a bitch I'm but dont tell me I am worth something. If I was ever worth anything in the beginning, I certainly am not worth anything now.

It drives me crazy that

I acted childish and selfish because I wanted to have someone to talk to me, someone to be "nice" to me and make me feel good about myself. I didn't want to cause conflict with my H, I was afraid to tell him that I felt neglected. Afraid he would laugh at me, afraid he would tell me I was stupid for feeling that way (which he has many times since I said it) So instead of telling him how I felt, I chose to tell someone else, talk to someone else and it felt like they cared. It felt like someone gave a shit what I had to say or if I had a crappy day, or anything.

I knew it was wrong but I did it anyway, and I hid it. I didn't think things would turn out like they did. I was childish because I didn't think how anyone else would feel about what I was doing, I only cared about me.

But that does not answer the question why

Allmyfault1,

You wrote: "

I acted childish and selfish because I wanted to have someone to talk to me, someone to be "nice" to me and make me feel good about myself. I didn't want to cause conflict with my H, I was afraid to tell him that I felt neglected. Afraid he would laugh at me, afraid he would tell me I was stupid for feeling that way (which he has many times since I said it) So instead of telling him how I felt, I chose to tell someone else, talk to someone else and it felt like they cared. It felt like someone gave a shit what I had to say or if I had a crappy day, or anything.

I knew it was wrong but I did it anyway, and I hid it. I didn't think things would turn out like they did. I was childish because I didn't think how anyone else would feel about what I was doing, I only cared about me.

But that does not answer the question why"

Actually, you DO answer why. Read what you said: you were afraid.

So there's your starting point. If you go to counseling, focus on fear. Where does it come from? How can you dispel it?

FWIW, and I'm no expert, but I am really impressed with your level of commitment to figure this out and try to understand what happened. You coming on here to ask the questions and truly listen to the answers shows a level of courage that makes me think you'll be able to overcome those other fears and come out of this a stronger and better person.

Wishing you all the best.

Your FOO isn't an excuse for cheating - it's possibly the cause of your selfishness and entitlement. It's maybe the root of your conflict avoidance. There is no excuse for cheating. But you can identify the root/core deficits in your moral compass so that you can counteract them? Cancel out flawed thinking with awareness maybe?

Where did you get the idea that you aren't worth anything? I'll guess it's your FOO. Do you think that belief led you to behave in a way that is 'less than'? Do you think a person who loves themselves would behave in a way that brought shame? Do you think a person who loves themselves would derive pleasure from shameful behavior and lowering themselves?

Nothing you need to answer right now, but these are the kind of questions you need to ask to find your why.

You guys are awesome. I don't have an IC or a MC or even a friend to listen to me anymore. Everyone is either tired of hearing it or wants to tell me that my H is being abusive and I should leave, that I don't deserve to be treated that way. So I stopped talking to them about it.

You all are kind of "it" for me. I didn't think that this post would turn into a counseling session but damn sure look like it kinda did.

I appericate you all listening and responding more that I can express.

Thank you

You should be really proud of yourself for asking the question.

IMO that means you ARE working on yourself. You didn't understand so you asked. You have met every question with an answer and then when challenged you have stepped up. You didnt abandon the thread or stop answering. And you answered with some brutal truths about yourself.

Your BH is hurting and pain makes us lash out. Thats going to continue for a while. But as his pain lessens he will SEE what the everyone on this thread sees. A woman working to be a better person, mother and wife. You are worthy of all the joy that brings. You deserve to have happy AUTHENTIC moments not tainted by your mistakes. You deserve bad moments that you and he triumph over. You will keep working and self reflecting.

From a BS to WS I am extremely proud of you. This is a the first of many steps towards a better YOU.

See, I get how you felt in your marriage. I felt the same way but I wasn't afraid to address it. I would tell him how unhappy I was - that I felt we could have more with a little work. We were just coexisting - the love as a verb was gone. Maybe we could try marriage counselling. He would answer "I'm perfectly happy. Sounds like a YOU problem."

I was so lonely and didn't know what to do. I didn't want a divorce. My self talk went along these lines. "Well, you should divorce him. You're not happy. He won't help fix it. But I don't want to divorce. I have three young kids. A lot of entanglements - is it really so bad that you can't find a way to tolerate it? But I'm so unhappy! So what can I do to be happy? I can't make him be a part of the solution...so what can I do?"

And over time - I sought fulfillment elsewhere - my new career as a teacher. My students. My children's extra curricular endeavours. These things brought me enough personal fulfillment that my husband's neglect didn't hurt...as much. It DID occur to me to have an affair - usually when I was angry and frustrated. But I knew I'd have to ask his permission - which, if he gave it would technically not be an affair now would it? But I didn't ask him because I knew asking him would hurt him. I didn't want to hurt him. So I took "cheating" off the table.

I recognize that throwing myself into my career and children didn't help the marriage and was in itself a form of conflict avoidance. Not healthy. But do you see where your coping mechanisms and mine diverged? Do you see how they were similar too?

Interestingly enough, it was my perfectly happy husband that had the affair. He felt he deserved more - at my expense. Where my conflict avoidance resulted in happy children and increased financial security for the family - his resulted in total destruction. But it was definitely easier and more fun than my method.

Keep posting and reading - mulling these things around in your head. Examine your thinking and increase your self awareness. Not only do you deserve to be healthy, but your H and children deserve a healthy wife and mother.

[This message edited by sassylee at 1:04 PM, June 28th (Wednesday)]

Random Thought/Rant/I don't even know ---Every time I hear someone say a variation of this, even friends here local, I want to scream at them. I want to tell them that its not about me, its about him. I don't matter, he does. He is the one that matters, he is the one that was hurt, he is the one that's worth something. Hate me, I deserve that, yell at me, tell me how much of a bitch I'm but dont tell me I am worth something. If I was ever worth anything in the beginning, I certainly am not worth anything now.

Oh but how wrong you are. It is critical to focus on you. Not your desires or what you want or what you think you need, but why you feel the way you do.

Statements like:

"I don't matter",

"Hate me, I deserve that, yell at me," "

"tell me how much of a bitch I'm"

"but dont tell me I am worth something."

"I certainly am not worth anything now."

plus the fact that you somewhat unwillingly allowed yourself to be passed around by your XH are perfect indicators of poor self esteem.

By their nature, people with poor self esteem won't look inward to find validation. How can they if they hate themselves that much? It is so much easier to seek and latch onto that validation and those "feel good" kibbles elsewhere.

These issues quite clearly originate in your family of origin and that is why everyone is telling you to spend some time in IC looking into that. It is one of the most difficult things to do, to relive trauma in the hope that it will help you understand how your wiring got crossed.

You cant fix what you dont understand. And if you dont fix it you will never be a safe partner to your H...you will continue to make empty promises (like those vows you made when you married your H).

As for your H, it is totally natural to lash out. He's in pain.

But like most folks on here recommend, it is really most helpful to get into IC first before you try MC. If you can work on yourself first and get healthy, then you have a shot at a healthy marriage. If you don't, you might as well forget it.

It's like an addict complaining about all the crappy stuff in his/her life and focusing on addressing those things without ever addressing the elephant in the room...the addiction. You've got to fix the underlying problem first to have any hope of successfully addressing the consequences that result.

Prissy - Thank you.

Sassy - I see where the stories are the same, and where they split. You threw yourself into your family and your job. You really did try to tell your husband though - then you started avoiding the conflict. I just skipped right to the avoiding part. Thank you for posting - reading the stories of others really does seem to help.

Tron - I guess I have always had self esteem issues if you look at it that way. I have always felt that others were more important than me. Their feelings, their desires, wants, needs. I feel like that was what was expected. You put others first, you take care of their needs, give them what they want, help them, its good to put them first, its selfless - And somehow that got all twisted up in my head I guess.

As to my comments about myself - I do deserve everything anyone wants to throw at me. I hurt my family, I hurt innocent people. A good person does not do that.

As far as IC or MC goes, I am not sure its an option. I want to go (well, that's not exactly true) I would go because I need to, but I cant afford it. We are already borrowing from Peter to pay Paul and juggling what bills get paid from month to month to make sure nothing gets shut off. The bills for C just isn't something we can afford.

You'd be surprised where you can find experienced counsellors. Churches, colleges with student therapists overseen by phd's, some social service agencies offer fees based in a sliding scale....

AMF,

Thank you so much for being so brave and starting this thread about wayward thinking. I can relate so much to your concerns. You are very brave. I know how hard it is to see your own worth sometimes, but you've certainly helped me to think about my own issues that lead to my A.

I think conflict avoidance is a very big part of wayward thinking for many of us.I know, in my case, I thought it was wrong to bring up things that troubled me. I thought it was better just to forgive and forget. I've had to work very hard on assertiveness and self-worth. I think that's what you need to do, too.

As to my comments about myself - I do deserve everything anyone wants to throw at me. I hurt my family, I hurt innocent people.

Yes, you do deserve the acrimony and recrimination. However, it does not mean you have no value! See the difference?

Doing something wrong does not negate your value or worth. I would add doing something wrong and not trying to fix it doesn't help, but you are *are* trying to fix it.

And to fix it, you support your H who is in real pain and lashing out, and you fix yourself so no one (including him) ever has to experience that from you again. Only in fixing you can you help to fix him.

go well -- IDK

I guess I have always had self esteem issues if you look at it that way. I have always felt that others were more important than me. Their feelings, their desires, wants, needs. I feel like that was what was expected.

why? like TG said, all of this is learned. You were not born like this. You were taught to be this way. Who taught you that others are more important, more deserving than you? Who taught you that this was to be expected? How did they teach you this? This is how codependency starts - with the message that

You put others first, you take care of their needs, give them what they want, help them, its good to put them first, its selfless

Time to start digging.

I do deserve everything anyone wants to throw at me. I hurt my family, I hurt innocent people. A good person does not do that.

good people hurt other people all the time. Hurt people hurt people. Hopefully with enough time and healing you will be able to see that.

I have a thought that might help.

Think of FOO, or any other marital issues like a pile of dirt that you spilled in your house.

Then, your affair, you tracked that dirt all over the house. It's EVERYWHERE.

Now, you are saying that the pile of dirt existing is at fault for the dirty house, and you're right, but the real issue is that the pile of dirt wasn't cleaned up, and that you tracked it everywhere.

[This message edited by xhz700 at 10:42 AM, June 29th (Thursday)]

I know that I should have gone to my husband and talked to him about my feelings instead of being afraid of him and his reaction to what I said

Why did you not feel like you could talk to him? Why did you not feel like you could stand up to him ?

Why was avoiding conflict a preferable outcome to asking him to meet your needs ?

My guess is that there is some level of co-dependency learned in childhood. You needs weren't being met and you did not know how to ask for them.

You are afraid of your H's anger. I'd bet there are lessons you learned earlier in your life that taught you that keeping the peace was more important than standing up for yourself.

Another angle. Did you always feel that in order to be M to your H that you had to do the lions share of the work to keep him loving you ?

Just some thing to explore. IC is very helpful with this kind of stuff.

These Issues in the M. need to be addressed if you R. otherwise it is not possible to build a new, improved marriage. If he is unable to see his faults he needs a new wife!

The way your husband treated you, the state of your marriage and your deep unhappiness in response to that, those are the reasons you felt tempted to cheat.

Thank you for giving me words to describe my outlook better. It does fit better then any other wording I could come up with.