SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

So I'll try and make this as short as I can

My W and I have been married 8 years. We have always had a great relationship. She is a teacher and is very educated, I own my own business and do pretty well for myself. We bought a home about 4 years ago. We had new neighbors move in about 2 years ago. A older man and his brother. They rent their property, and they have always been friendly. One of the brothers has some severe medical issues, and I guess the other stays with him to help.

Last year, one of the brothers (healthy one) started going back to college. We are in our mid 30's and he is in his mid 50's. My wife is a very friendly person and very outgoing. She was asked to help this man with some class work, and being the person she is, agreed to help. She would go to his house two or three times per week, and stay for about an hour at a time.

I started to get upset when she started receiving gifts from this man. They were nothing big, and I assumed they were thank you gifts for her help. He is not wealthy and like I said, 20 years her senior. She never texts, emails or calls this man, and has no correspondence other than going to his house to help him with his schooling.

He has become increasingly more annoying, calling her multiple times per day (she ignores his calls) sending her Facebook messages almost daily (funny memes, etc) and generally pushing to be closer to her IMO.

at first, she said she thought he may be gay. He doesn't have a wife/girlfriend, never been married. She says he is quite annoying but she has developed a friendship with him and his brother. She does not have many close friends and doesn't get out often.

She has hid a few of these gifts from me in the past, or threw them away without telling me. I have been getting more and more upset about this friendship and have let her know that I feel like it is inappropriate for a married woman to spend this much time with a single man. Since this conversation, she has limited her contact with this man significantly. Only says hi to him in passing, and makes excuses to not see him.

I still have a gut feeling something has happened. Either he has made sexual advances towards her and she doesn't want me to find out because of fear I may do something to him (I am a gym rat, workout daily and am in amazing shape, I used to box, and this man is in his mid 50's, overweight, so yeah if I got my hands on him he would be in trouble)

Once again, absolutely zero contact other than in person. No texts, no emails, Google search history is clean.

The other day I was on our tablet and it was signed into her messenger. She was chatting with one of her only female friends. My wife had mentioned going over to his house for something and her friend responded with "now he's going to want your body lol" my wife replied "god, I wouldn't doubt it. He's creeping me out"

I bit more background (sorry for the length) my wife is bisexual, however we have never brought another woman into our marriage. She said previously that she had slept with 3 men and 1 woman. We had a conversation the other day and that turned into 5 men and 2 women. I could care less other than the lying. Why lie to me about it for all of these years? What else are you lying about?

So I confronted her and just asked her why she'd lie to me about these partners, and asked if anything has ever gone on with the neighbor. Asked why her friend would say something like that? She immediately said I had no right going through her messages, that her conversation with her best friend is private.

She was not nice about helping me understand what was going on. She was very defensive, told me definitively, 100% nothing had ever happened between her and the neighbor. She said that I was controlling her, "smothering" was the phrase she used. Said she couldn't understand how I couldn't trust her after all these years. I remained calm as can be during our conversation, while she was very animated, raising her voice and was borderline hostile.

I simply was trying to understand why she was hiding things that he bought her. I brought up the sexual history and told her that if she liked about that, what would stop her from lying about something else. She kept trying to turn it into an attack on me, my faults in the marriage, what I don't do well. Never would breech the subject of my questions, other than saying he's never been inappropriate. I eventually just gave up trying. I hope I didn't tip my hand on this one too soon.

So the question is this: how does a guilty person react to being confronted vs. a innocent person? I know if the rolls were reversed, I don't think I would have reacted the same way. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks guys!

So there are a couple of additional questions I have, and I am hoping someone has some experience in this area.

She used to answer his phone calls, and they would never talk long. Basically long enough for him to ask her to come over. Now she will not answer his calls in my presence, at all.

He has now stopped sending Facebook messages. I have made it known that I am not happy with the intrusion into our marriage. He will still do little things to try and see her, such as delivering the mail to our front door. Sometimes I answer and he scurries away quickly.

We have a 3 year old together. I work from home most days and since it's summer break, she has taken on the roll of housewife until September.

I am very upset about this. If I find out anything has happened, I don't think I could R. If she traded up, at least I could understand. But this guy is no prize.

I'm sorry you find yourself here. I can only answer from my experience.

My H was defensive and angry when I asked or he would just blow it off. He did find a way to turn it around on me to be the bad person for asking. I was the bad wife kind of thing or he picked a fight about something else to distract me. There also just felt like there was a wedge between us. I couldn't reach him for some reason. He did protect his electronics.

Like, she got mad at you for invading her privacy with her BF, as opposed to dealing with that you found.

You will hear many terms like lying, blameshifting, gaslighting, minimizing and defensiveness. These are all common.

At the very least, she is not respecting your feeling and boundaries for this situation. You are clearly not comfortable with it, nor should you be.

I'm so sorry you are here.

I just wanted to edit to add that at the very least it sounds like this guy has a thing for her. How would she appreciate the situation if it was reversed? You said you are in shape and what not, you were going over to the older female's house etc. I doubt she would appreciate that very much

[This message edited by Jesusismyanchor at 10:49 AM, July 10th (Monday)]

A guilty person usually denies and blameshifts and gaslights.

Based on the comment from her girlfriend, I don't think she is being totally forthcoming with you.

Perhaps nothing happened, but it does sound as though he might have stepped over the line at minimum.

Keep in mind all of us in the JFO forum completely trusted our spouses....until we couldn't.

Please don't rugsweep, your gut is screaming, listen to it.

Thank you for your responses, yes my gut has been sending something is not right for a while. She is good at manipulation, she initially had her degree in psychology, so she knows how to pick me apart pretty easily. The worst part is there is no proof of anything. I cannot find anything to bring up, other than a "soft" confrontation.

I've decided to start a soft 180, not engage, focus on making myself happy. Not speaking unless spoken to. I want her to know I'm comfortable with myself and I don't need her for anything. I could have a replacement whenever I wanted one.

I am positive he never comes to my house, so VAR is out of the question, unless I could bug his home lol. I guess I could put one in the car, but she rarely leaves the house during the day.

I do find the conversation with her friend interesting. I think her friend knows more than she's letting on as well.

It's certainly suspicious that her reaction was to raise her voice and get upset when you asked about the neighbor. Another red flag is her reaction when you saw her conversations with her friend. From my experience, it's a common tactic for cheaters to demand their privacy with stuff so they can make the other person out to be an asshole for invading their privacy.

I'd definitely demand 100% no contact. He's not to bring the mail or show up at your door. Your wife can tell him that with you present.

To answer your original question; they would act just like your wife has. In fact there's a name for it. It's called gas lighting. Trying to make you think you're paranoid and controlling when you confront.

The reality is, she may not have had sex with him to this point, but that's likely his end game. At the very least, she's disrespecting you by busting a reasonable marital boundary. What she's doing is not appropriate for a married woman. Period.

I advise you to you to give her some version of the standard line:

"I can't control what you do, but I can control what I will accept from you. And I'll no longer accept you having an inappropriate relationship with a single man. So the choice is yours".

There's a catch however to using that line. You better be willing to start the divorce process if she doesn't comply. Otherwise it will get worse.

Good luck.

[This message edited by badmemory at 10:57 AM, July 10th (Monday)]

I think a visit, or a least a phone call to this guy would be in order.

I would advise him that you feel further contact with your wife and gifts would be inappropriate, ... and that you would like to avoid having to address this issue again. It would be.....upsetting.

Do you understand?

The wife may not like it, but you have done your due diligence to warn him, assuming nothing has gone too far, he now assumes the risk of getting his happy ass kicked into next week, should something happen.

Let her know after the fact, and that you should be informed of any further contact between them.

If she cannot see how inappropriate this is, serious discussions need to be taking place. Perhaps her other female friend would be on your side with this.

Thank you again for your responses, it's helpful to get some perspective on this.

I think I may have a word or two with this guy. He definitely keeps his distance from me, which throws up more red flags to me.

I have always had a good relationship with my wife. We've been best friends, we have a good sex life, and we work hard to take care of each other. If this were anyone other than a single man, I would probably not care. I do admit I have been controlling in the past. I have been cheated on by a past gf, and rugswept that for years. I guess my brain is just hyper sensitive to this and I don't want to be made a fool of again.

I just don't understand what would make her friend say what she said unless she had some additional information that I don't know. I feel like something is wrong, but then a part of me thinks I'm going crazy. Like why would she jeprodize everything for this guy?

She said previously that she had slept with 3 men and 1 woman. We had a conversation the other day and that turned into 5 men and 2 women.

Huge red flag. Maybe the 2 extra men and 1 woman are recent endeavors and she had a slip of the tongue. She's a teacher but no good at math? I doubt it. One or the other is a lie...You can bet on it. And... ALWAYS trust your gut. Hire a PI if you can afford it. There are other ways to find out what's going on... and it may be nothing. Whatever you do you need to be discreet in your search methods and try not to tip your hand.

You may be barking up the wrong tree. The two guys may be throwing off your gut a little. How good a friend is the other woman? You said your wife is bi-sexual?

[This message edited by Marriagesucks at 11:15 AM, July 10th (Monday)]

Trust me, my gut was screaming before this new Revelation. It was just the catalyst. I asked myself "if she'd lie about something so trivial for so long, what else could she lie about"

The friend is most definitely just a friend. She is married as well. They have known each other their whole lives. I have too much contact with both of them together and it's never even been close to that line.

Be wary of her female friend. All too often, if you read the stories on this site, their is a toxic friend in the equation. In my case it was the MIL.

The fact that she joked with your wife about the guy wanting her body is worrisome. Again if you read enough stories here, a cheating spouse often reverts to the mentality of a teenager. The toxic friend often has a similarly immature mindset. So, chances are good the friend will lie too.

I get that if I was accused of something, I may be aggravated about it. Especially if I have nothing to hide, but she was a bit over the top. I explained that I was just trying to find out all the pieces of the puzzle so I could get this out of my head because it's been driving me nuts. She used it as a chance to tell me that she finds me controlling, and that we can't succeed without trust. She never once made me feel better about the situation. She says she feels bad for them and that she's stuck between work and home, never goes out and feels like she can go somewhere and interact with someone other than me or work for a while.

While I'm sure she understands how it makes me feel, and while she's trying to make it better (no contact) I feel like there's a piece of the puzzle missing.

If something is going on whoever it is they would have to have some way of communicating whether it be by burner phone or cheating apps that delete messages. There are apps that will retrieve deleted texts. You can find out a lot just by going over your phone bill. You said she doesn't have many friends. Shouldn't be too hard.

"God I wouldn't doubt it. He's creeping me out."

She's done nothing with this guy. That is the reaction of a woman who isn't interested in the man.

With respect to the prior partners - maybe she thinks that you're jealous and controlling and doesn't want to deal with it. Because that is how you come across to me after reading that wall of text.

[This message edited by Northsider12 at 11:33 AM, July 10th (Monday)]

Whoa hold on. I don't think she's cheating on you at all.

Her comment to her friend about him creeping her out, is the kind of thing I've said to friends about, well, creepy guys.

I get hit on a lot by creepy guys in my line of work.

She thinks he's creepy.

There's no communication between them.

She throws his gifts away. She hides them because she doesn't really care about them and it'll just piss you off to see them, so.... not exactly the best way to deal with the gifts but she's not cheating IMO. Talk to her about it.

The past sexual partner numbers, who cares? I'm guessing she was a little embarassed about her numbers or something, and she downplayed it at first. Idk, but I HATE it when a guy asks me about my past "numbers", and if I've felt the guy was a little jealous minded I've down played it. Let it go.

I'm guessing she enjoys helping these guys out with the schooling and as you said doesn't have much else to do. That's all. At the same time, while she enjoys it and feels good about helping someone, she doesn't like his interest in her. Talk to her about it from that perspective. She'd probably welcome you haveing a little rational chat with him about respecting boundaries. I said rational, don't go over there accusing him of having sex with her.

She's not doing anything, IMO.

So, you have a history of jealousy and being controlling. She has not done anything to make you think she has any interest in the older neighbor except throw away gifts that he gave her. She told her friend that the guy creeped her out. You say that you are a buff gym rat and seem to be saying that if the guy was making advances you would beat him up. You are mad because you found out that she had more sexual partners than she admitted when you first met and it seems like you are more upset about that than anything else. I am going to go out on a limb here and guess that nothing is going on. She is probably scared of what you would do if you found out the guy had made advances and that she, like many women, was afraid you would think her a slut because of her sexual history. Ask yourself if she responded to your tone. Were you accusatory? Did you invade her space and make her feel threatened? Did you make her feel like her sexual history made her a bad person? Sometimes people lie because they want to hide something. Sometimes people lie because they are afraid. Many times men do not realize how threatening they are when they are emotionally charged. Step back. Wait until you are calm. Sit down with her and stay seated with enough distance that she has her own space. Don't loom or hover. Let her know that you are afraid of being hurt again and that his actions are making you uncomfortable. Do not bring up her sexual history or orientation. Let her speak and really listen. If she continues to lie let her know that only the truth is acceptable and then get up and walk away. Watch her words and actions. If your gut tells you that she is still in contact with the other man, let her know that it is a line that just can't be crossed. Let her know that this is something important to you and that it isn't about controlling her it is about asking her to respect your feelings about him. See what kind of reactions you get to that kind of conversation.

Guilty people act exactly the way your wife is acting. The more guilty they are, the more offended they act by the questions.

Really this is all about - what is a reasonable marital boundary. There may be some couples that accept this sort of thing, but I'd say a large majority wouldn't. Especially if you have been cheated on before.

There may be a nicer way to express your concern to her; but at the end of the day it's all about whether she respects you and that boundary.