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Ex-military/"war hero" OM probably gave her some pointers on polygraph countermeasures. She attempted to apply them. They obviously didn't work, or at the very least she couldn't successfully apply them.

One of the reasons she won't go near a poly again.

Congratulations on your realization. Stay strong and true to yourself.

So I’m backing off of the MC sessions for now,

Sounds like a logical decision right now.

I thought about suggesting waterboarding, but figured that comment might be counterproductive.

A good sense of humor will get you through this! You're doing good,

I’ve realized that I am truly not at a point that I am ready to pursue R with her right now....And the key one is if I even want to pursue R.

Good for you.

Time and again we've heard a BS say this. And what many BS's are looking for (I know I was) are concrete indications that their spouse is being truthful and transparent, which in turn illustrates a commitment to the BS and to the marriage. Yet many WS's don't understand this. They think a song as the BS doesn't know how bad it really was, he/she won't divorce me. What's sad is that it's this very lack of honesty and transparency that can ultimately doom the marriage. They really do shoot themselves in the foot.

She’s been reading numerous books on the pertinent subjects, and that’s a good thing.

Ummm...yes. But, that's more like a crumb. Reading is nice and helpful. You know what would be really worthwhile? Taking another poly? Oh...wait. That requires a desire on her part to do anything possible to help you heal from what she's now admitted is at the minimum an intense EA.

and she steadfastly refuses. She said she’d consider anything but that.

Why? Does she think that a full blown EA is somehow "better" than a PA? For some, perhaps. However there are plenty of folks out there who'd prefer their spouses have a drunken ONS than fall in love with another man or woman, which is what an EA is.

I'll say it again. Her refusal means she's not being honest. And it's irrelevant for these purposes as to whether she did or did not have a PA. The issue is that she's not willing to do what YOU need in order to put your mind at ease and help you heal. She's so concerned about failing and that you'll divorce her if she does, that she doesn't realize that by not agreeing to it she's sealing her own fate.

Imagine for a moment if she came to you and opened up. Admitted to a PA for whatever length of time. Apologized, Broke down. Said she didn't want to admit it because she was scared you'd leave her. But she understands now you need the whole truth and if you do leave her, well, she deserves it as a consequence for what she did to you. But she loves you and is willing to do anything you need in order to heal.

Would you leave her? Maybe. You'd be devastated, sure. But in your heart of hearts you probably assume it was a PA anyway. But that honesty, that truthfulness, that expression of commitment from your wife...that's something. Of course it can't be just words and has to be followed up by real action on her part. But maybe you're thinking R has a shot.

And that's what she doesn't get. It's the lies that ultimately kill the marriage.

In the meantime, move ahead like you've said. 180 is great. And IC for you is key.

[This message edited by Walloped at 9:26 AM, August 23rd (Wednesday)]

It's so very good to hear that you are getting some IC and carefully considering wether or not you want to try to reconcile. After all she is lying to you about some very important things. Things that you might not want to fully consider at this moment. When you re-read this thread in 6-12 months your perceptions might change.

Keep with the IC! Use it to build a more effective and stronger you. One thing you can be certain of is that your IC and us here at SI have zero motivation for subterfuge. Not all of our advice is relevant or productive but by golly it is honest. MC and WW on the other hand would like to keep the status quo. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, but you have your eyes a bit opened by now and are starting to think about what YOU want!

It sounds like you're getting to a better place and looking to head toward the path of taking control of your life. That's a great move toward healing yourself.

I hope that your also moving away from coddling your WS any further. She made her choices and knew the potential consequences. She needs to feel the pain an despair that she wrought upon herself and to spend time mired in the mud so she can reflect and learn on her own timeline.

I also support your putting protections in place for yourself and your kids. Postnup, postnup, postnup. Also, take her name off of anything that you want to preserve. Take her name off of any joint accounts and joint ownerships. Set her up with her own account and transfer monthly spending allocations to it for her use. Don't allow her access to anything that can be abused in her future A's. I can't express enough that you've got to protect your and your kids' futures.

You should be number one now. Stake out your future and head in that direction. If you want to allow your WS to come along, that's fine but she's just a ride-along. You set the direction and pace from here forward. Take care of yourself.

Your WW is one of the stubbornest people I have ever heard of. She is taking TT to a new height. Just look at the progression of her explanation for this A from before and after the polygraph. She is following the same handbook that all of them do just much more slowly. You know that it was a full-blown PA and that also she was deep into feelings of love for this guy. I'm not sure how I could stay with someone that would show me so little respect as to not tell me the truth and not want to help me get over this. If you stay with this woman I can see you waking up one day in the future and looking at her and thinking "What the heck did I do?"

You've grown incredibly in getting your feet under you. Her antics have made you stronger and smarter.

Her aggressiveness... the opposite of humility. I guess she is no longer the person that was one inch tall after the poly result.

I expect that the pseudo-confession to the MC was impression/image management on her part. It confirms one subset of lies she told you.

Pine, you really "got" this stuff in the best possible way for yourself.

I truly wish she could she realize the opportunity she is squandering.

[This message edited by TimelessLoss at 1:34 PM, August 23rd (Wednesday)]

I tip my cap to you Pine for really righting the ship. It's not easy. We've all been there and remember we may all be experts now, in hindsight, but we also struggled mightily when it was our turn at bat.

Here are 3 facts we know:

1. Your WW has been lying to you.

2. Your WW had a PA - it was like page 1 of this now 20 page thread when we all learned of the text expressing thanks for how "great last night was" -- her miserably failed poly (and now her refusal to go forward with a 2nd poly that she herself proposed) is just the icing on this shit layer cake.

3. They can be no real R without 100 percent honesty and right now your WW is still living the fantasy of bamboozling you into believing her lies.

Hang in there.

I do hope someday she gets over her love and protection of the AP.

She does not respect you enough to tell you the truth.

How would she feel if you had an affair?

If she loves him so much more than she loves you and is still protecting him over her marriage, time to let her go live with him.

get a post nup. Then file for D. If she loves you and only you, she can try to get you back.

But it will not work that way she is going now.

Has she stopped all contact with him?

Somehow, she is still protecting him over her kids.

She really loves the AP more than her kids.

She will do this to you again.

My friend tried to get past the first boyfriend.

When he found out about 2 more, because she did not face any consequences, he is now getting a D.

Too late, but better late than never.

One thing to keep in mind is that nobody – none of us – can say with 100% certainty that your wife is not being honest. MAYBE she’s already told you everything. The big problem is that YOU don’t believe it. YOU don’t think you have the truth and she can’t suggest a way to convince you. The poly was one tool, but she failed it. She still insists she’s told you the truth, and just MAYBE the poly gave the wrong conclusion.

OK – So I don’t think you have the truth. I could base that simply on experience – you might recall I gave your wife at best a 1/5 chance of being truthful and noted I was being optimistic. Critical research indicates polys are about 70% reliable, more reasonable critical research gives them a +90% success rate. Optimistic research usually peaks at 97% accuracy.

MAYBE your wife is telling the truth… But based on a 2/10 and a 3/10 or 1/10 success rate the chances are at best something like 2-6%.

Ask your wife what she can do to convince you. Make it clear that her word isn’t enough and that the ongoing lack of trust will make YOU incapable of recovery. Ask her how she thinks you should react to her having failed the poly. Ask her if she would do hypnosis or hypnotherapy. Get her to tell you why she refuses a second poly.

I have some issues regarding the OM:

I asked you why he changed jobs. It’s relevant: why would he change job from where his love-interest is and/or his best friend?

What was their business relationship? If he was her supervisor I’m wondering if the job-change was voluntary or due to a “suggestion” from top-management.

Is there any ongoing contact? Does your wife still have his number in her phone, have him as a friend on social media or send him e-mails?

I think you should let OM wife know your wife failed the poly. If she doesn’t care then fine, no damage done. But it might start a reaction that would result in you knowing the truth. All I would say is something like:

I would like you to know that wife failed a polygraph test. The questions were all about if the affair had been sexual and physical and she failed all questions. The conclusion was totally decisive.

That’s it. What she does with that info is totally her decision, but she would have to be in super-denial not to ask her husband. That in turn might start some waves that just might change the dynamics.

Pineapple, you don't have enough time on this site to know the cast of characters here, but know that Bigger is the best counselor here. He is always measured, reasonable, proactive, problem-solving, and to me knowledge has never been incorrect on any call. Weigh his words heavily.

By the way, you are doing great. I know it doesn't feel like it, but you are. Your story is, unfortunately, still at the beginning, but I can tell that you gave what it takes to make the best future possible.

Deep PA? Has she said whether or not she was in love with him? Was she asked that in the poly?

I'll second Bigger's creds. Not only does he have the law enforcement background and unfortunate infidelity experience, but he spends hours here giving out free advice.

Knowing what infidelity does to someone he could literally be charging $50k to coach an individual through this.

You have an amazing opportunity to literally be talking to one of the world's experts on this.

why would he change job from where his love-interest is and/or his best friend?

I believe he had some grievances with the company over a few issues and decided to make a move. He was not W's supervisor nor in the chain of management above her. He was in a higher level of management than W.

W may still have OM's contact info in her phone. I thought she had deleted it when she deleted the text messages, but after her failed poly while driving home during her hysterical ranting she pulled out her phone and wanted to call him and have me speak with him so I could hear directly from him that they were not in a PA. I declined to have her make that call. She says she is NC with him. I have not requested she send a NC letter, but after our MC Friday she said she would, but preferred not to, if I asked her to send one.

Last couple days have been rough, our anniversary passed. I told W not to expect anything from me, that I didn't feel like there was something to celebrate right now. I guess she was disappointed anyway and went off on me during the night. She was basically saying that she has been the only one committed to repairing our relationship since day 1 (from dday I guess) and that I have not bought in to the R process like she has. She finally got under my skin with her bs at 2am and I got angry for a minute before catching myself and spelling it out for her that we don't stand a chance if she doesn't find some maturity very quickly, be patient and back off. Layered on top of her demand from the previous day that she have access to my phone so she can see all my texts and take me to task over whatever she finds, I am starting to find the interaction with her to be extremely emotionally taxing. I am trying to disengage as best I can. She is not making a whole lot of sense anymore.

She was basically saying that she has been the only one committed to repairing our relationship since day 1

She's the only one that screwed it up. She should be thankful youR even around to give her a chance.

[This message edited by twisted at 2:06 PM, August 24th (Thursday)]

I have not requested she send a NC letter, but after our MC Friday she said she would, but preferred not to, if I asked her to send one.

For her to want so badly to R with you, she should be doing everything she can take make you feel that she can perhaps be a safe partner again. Yet, she has "preferences" and needs "assurance" from you, and that's with a failed poly. Otherwise, it's not worth the trouble? That's what I'm reading from your WW response to your requirements for R. What does that really say to you?

Wow. She is more guilty than OJ. You might want to think about the 180. This will stop her messing with your head so much and give you space to think.

I feel almost hysterical reading your updates so I can only imagine how you feel. My ex was a stone cold liar and I never got the truth before deciding to separate. There will come a point in time you will have to leave Narnia and return to reality. It's going to be almost impossible for you to reconcile if she doesn't fess up.

Part of me thinks she might be holding on to the idea of him and her being together one day. That might explain why she is so reluctant to be truthful. I would be amazed if they weren't still in contact. A VAR in her car might be interesting.

Layered on top of her demand from the previous day that she have access to my phone so she can see all my texts and take me to task over whatever she finds, I am starting to find the interaction with her to be extremely emotionally taxing.

Pineapple

Her point is that you looked at her phone and now she wants to look at yours. One up her. Instead offer to take a poly and answer the same questions she was asked.

[This message edited by Michigan at 2:45 PM, August 24th (Thursday)]

I have not requested she send a NC letter, but after our MC Friday she said she would, but preferred not to, if I asked her to send one.

She does not seem to prefer lots of things. Being remorseful and telling the truth among them.

she was disappointed anyway and went off on me during the night.

So she had an affiar and is pissed you did not roll out the red carpet to celebrate your anniversary? The anniversary of the marriage she is in the process of destroying?

She was basically saying that she has been the only one committed to repairing our relationship since day 1 (from dday I guess) and that I have not bought in to the R process like she has.

Bought into the R process? This is her buying into R? Wow.

Layered on top of her demand from the previous day that she have access to my phone so she can see all my texts and take me to task over whatever she finds

Ah yes, the old turn it around on the other person tactic.

Cops...."we have you on video punching the store clerk"

Perp....." I didn't give anyone permission to video tape me!"

Classic.

Given her words, attitude, and above all else actions.... I doubt that anyone on SI, even the R at all cost contingent, would classify her as reconciliation material.

[This message edited by ramius at 4:24 PM, August 24th (Thursday)]

Everything changed with that failed poly. Before that W was growing in her role as a healer. Obviously thete were some bad moments and unfortunate things, but the positives were starting to outweigh the negatives once the MC had pointed her to some self help books on boundaries and affair recovery. After the poly, W became instantly convinced that the M was doomed. Negative has greatly overshadowed positive. Someday I may take up the examiner on the offer to let me view the video of the session, because I would like to see for myself just how traumatic it appears to me.

Another thing W hit me with last night is that she says I didn't approach her the right way when I discovered the texts initially, according to what she was reading in the book bigger recommended. I haven't made it that far yet. Apparently there is a right way to do it which involves disclosing what I have found when confronting so that the WS isn't put in a position where they are likely to lie. While she is telling me this, I am thinking wth, I've just suffered the most traumatic discovery of my life about my W being in an A, and you think I should have immediately followed some sort of fair play protocol for properly confronting my spouse over evidence of an A? Seriously?

I think a period of cool off and disengagement is a good thing now. I will talk about the block and tackle of daily life needs, but won't do much more than politely listen when these other types of comments come along.