SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Pine,

The intent here is to be a level of support and unvarnished truth difficult to find elsewhere.

Infidelity is a betrayal like none other, and it's an invaluable 'plus' to have emotional and strategic resources outside of regular channels.

If only I had the wisdom of SI during my shitstorm, notably the unmatched strategic advice.

You WILL get through this.

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 3:55 PM, September 8th (Friday)]

If I was too much of an asshole, I apologize

It's not you, it's me.

No worries, it was just my frustration coming through. Weeks of that horrible, nagging feeling that there is more to know, but I will never find out. D isn't going to cause any more revelations, either. Someone earlier in the thread said it will just keep eating away at you over time. That's a crappy way to live life. Oh well, decisions.

Listen, we're internet buds by now. We both know that there is a lot that doesn't add up.

But you're sitting back. Let's assume you can still do that for a bit more. We can debate that the other day.

What I want to talk to you about is the OBS. You still haven't told her about the failed poly. That is not something that you can sit back on. Ethics dictate that you need to let her know.

Forget about the incredible strategic move on your part involving her, you can't let this change you. Bottling this up and not involving the OBS is just plain wrong.

Decisions are tough. Not deciding is a decision. Too bad WW will never admit to the PA. Things like this are kinda like an abscess. It heals over on the surface but is painful when touched, so you leave it alone. Meanwhile underneath the infection remains and grows until it breaks out worse than before, sometimes with blood poisoning. You are smart enough to realize what you must eventually come to terms with. Your life will be better once you get through the lancing, debriding, and healing. In the meantime you must live with the infection.

Meanwhile I remain in a state of Active Fidelity.

This is great!

What I want to talk to you about is the OBS. You still haven't told her about the failed poly. That is not something that you can sit back on. Ethics dictate that you need to let her know.

No, really I don't need to let her know. I contacted OBS with my suspicions/concerns. She didn't seem at all interested in hearing them. If she has doubts about her H, she's free to pursue them on her own. If W ever revealed to me that it was a PA, I might let OBS know. But OBS doesn't strike me at all like a potential ally.

Different people do things different ways. You could tell my Irish Grandmother that aliens were on the front porch eating her dog and you'd perhaps get an eyebrow raised.

She deserves to know. Her being an ally would just be icing on the top.

It's also psychological. You need to be in the 'kickongnasd and taking names' mindset. Running up and down the street throwing haymakers.

You are stalled. You don't need to be.

PS: she failed the poly. Her actions before and since are also clear as day. It was a PA. You need her to admit it to you for some relationship dynamic thing that while I don't understand I accept. OBS may be like the 99% of us here who simply see if for what it is.

At the very least she should have the knowledge in order to get herself tested. Cervical cancer and worse could be the impact of having a STD and doing nothing about it

[This message edited by Sharkman at 3:23 AM, September 10th (Sunday)]

PA,

First of all, neither you, nor others, such as sharkman, know whether your wife's affair was physical, or only emotional, based on the experience you've provided, thus far. The readers are limited to the experiences you've described, and thus can only provide input based on the information you've provided.

Nevertheless... some commenters, such as, but not limited to, sharkman, think they have your situation figured out. While these persons may have have figured out your situation... they may not have. Their opinion is only as good as the information you provided, and their abilitity to read your particular "tea leaves" is not great, being removed from your personal experience. In other words... take the words here from persons line sharkman, and others like it, that your wife had a PA,

with a grain of salt. You, personally know best what occurred, and what is going on. These persons don't.

In other words... listen to what these types of persons have to think tactically, but listen to yourself strategically.

No, really I don't need to let her know. I contacted OBS with my suspicions/concerns. She didn't seem at all interested in hearing them. If she has doubts about her H, she's free to pursue them on her own. If W ever revealed to me that it was a PA, I might let OBS know. But OBS doesn't strike me at all like a potential ally.

Every BS should expose to the OBS, I have no patience for anybody selfish enough to leave someone in ignorant vulnerability. But Pineapple has already done that, the ball is now in OBS' court.

Good Lord.

Let's go over the facts for those that have a shred of doubt that this wasn't physical.

1. She asked the other man if they could meet out of town, alone,while she was staying at a hotel I presume.

2. They met for countless happy hours without Pine knowing.

3. They attended a friggin concert together.

4. She talked about his junk and made that stupid comment about wether it worked or not.

5. When confronted she lied about how much they communicated

6. And finally, she bombed the Poly, wasn't even close.

Honesty, I think the biggest issue by far is that she won't come clean. There is a 1% chance of reconciliation with a liar. How could you ever trust her again. Hell, she is out of the country right now, she could be calling him daily or worse yet, he could be there. That is why I agree with Shark, at least if the OBS knows, maybe just maybe, she would keep a better eye on her POS husband.

Strategically it's also the right move. Pine's wife steadfastly refuses another poly, presumably for their lack of reliability. The next biggest variable towards truth is her boyfriend spilling the beans. Telling OBS is just the next move in the chess match. There's is literally nothing Pine's wife can do to stop Pine from talking to her, and it's a HUGE variable and also COMPLETELY out of her scope of influence

Even if OBS doesn't care, Pine's wife doesn't need to know that. All she needs to know is 'I'm talking to your boyfriend's wife. We are openly sharing information. That's as detailed as I will get on this subject at this point'.

Her face and reaction will tell you everything you need to know

Jman is right, while we can't be positive it was a PA, the evidence is beyond a reasonable doubt. Waaaaay beyond. I'm guessing she will admit it some day.

The one thing I just can't understand and I don't think I ever will, is how the WS can knowingly inflict more pain after DD by not being truthful in helping their spouse heal.

Pines wife can obviously see the distress and pain she caused but she refuses to help him by being honest. I couldn't live with myself doing that to someone I love. It just boggles my mind. You deserve better than that Pine, you really do.

The issue isn’t if this was an EA or a PA.

Arguing about that right now is a lot like arguing about if to take a right turn or a left turn at the top of the 1000-foot cliff you first must climb. Let’s deal with that decision once we have finished that tough freestyle, no safety-net climb.

To me the key issues Pineapple is facing are understanding and trust.

For the longest time, Mrs. Pine, didn’t acknowledge this as an affair. I even think she still doesn’t. It’s an “inappropriate friendship” in her eyes. That’s like the embezzling bank-cashier calling the money stolen “a loan”. I don’t think there is ANY doubt in ANY poster that based on what Pine shares (and that’s all we have) that this is an EA. I think there is no way the marriage can reconcile until both parties agree to what they are reconciling from. I would be more at ease if Pine were to post that yes – Mrs. Pine has admitted this was an affair and sees this as an affair.

Then there is the trust…

There is none. Due to (expected) trickle- truth and IMMENSE evidence supporting that this was a PA plus the failure of the poly and the reluctance to find other accepted ways to support her story then there is no trust.

I think Pine has reached a place where he would be able to accept and deal with knowing his WW and OM had sex. I think he would probably still try to reconcile. But what I don’t think will work is Pine trying to reconcile and there always being this thick defense shield his WW must maintain IF she’s hiding something.

I also think that whenever there is doubt or reluctance or any form of backlash in R Pine will have his doubts and be thinking if it was EA or PA. I also think that IF R goes well then at some point his WW will have this strong need to tell the truth (we have seen dozens of those instances here on SI… the 10 year later confessions…) and then it can be even more damaging than now.

And yes… The odds are extremely high that this is a PA. When all the known factors are added up (length of affair, already-acknowledged contact, sexual innuendo and the failed poly) then the odds are extremely high. But it’s still a possibility it wasn’t.

Finally – I too think OMW should be told your wife failed the poly.

The one thing I just can't understand and I don't think I ever will, is how the WS can knowingly inflict more pain after DD by not being truthful in helping their spouse heal.

The answer is quite simple. Waywards care more about themselves than about anyone else. Otherwise, none of us would be here.

What kind of phone does your wife use? What kind of app did you use on it?

The answer is quite simple. Waywards care more about themselves than about anyone else. Otherwise, none of us would be here.

I agree, but after 20 years of marriage it is hard to believe that someone can be totally lacking of empathy for someone they profess to love.

but after 20 years of marriage it is hard to believe that someone can be totally lacking of empathy for someone they profess to love.

It amazing what a WS can do once they go into cover-their-ass mode. Cheaters do not think and feel the way non-cheaters do. It is a different wiring. Concern for the BS went out the door the second they decided to cheat. Once caught the goals now change. The fun was had. The cake is gone. Now it's about maintaining control of the situation. So the WW leverages the few commodities they have. Sex, Hoovering, tears, and most importantly....selective dishing out of information.

One example....WWTL's WW met with her OM after D-Day. And kept the secret for 6 years. Only fessed up when a poly was on the table. 6 years!

Pine, please seriously think if you want to deal with her lack of honesty for the rest of your life. Nobody wants you to be back here in a year or two saying, "I should have listened to you guys."

Jman...it's called being a selfish coward.

I was reading this and got about half way thru when I just wanted to scream. "TAKE THE DAMN POLY!" For god sake. So I just faced forwarded to the end to see yes! Finally! She took the poly and failed and you still doubt PA? Not to mention the behavior of drawing the kids into this situation? Mom of the year award here. Pineapple, it's time to get serious and decide if you can R with a person like this. You have to have the right attitude for a successful R. It's hard enough when they do come clean but to always be wondering? Can you live like this? Only you can decide.

Pine,

How are things?