SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Welcome, Jello.

The mods will protect your WW. It's ok if she has experienced some unpleasantness. If she closes her thread to BS replies then she will get excellent help from former WS's on there. If she chooses to avail herself of it.

This thread is about you. You.

So you have a wife who is really concerned about her own wants and needs, who begins a long running more or less permanent affair 2/12 years into a marriage/relationship. A marriage where you are going out at least three nights a week and texting several times daily. A marriage without the stress of children.

Make no mistake, this was a consistent set of calculated and premeditated actions on her part to have and eat her cake. "Insanity" or "stupidity" you would have figured out, even as trusting in her as you were. (aside: trusting your spouse is a reasonable expectation, the 50K plus people here would likely agree). Is there any doubt in your mind that without the BW's disclosure that those security cameras would be somehow be turned off for another 'mean't-to-be-innocent' get together in your home the next time you were out of town? Please!

If you ever think that children will be a part of your life, then 100% do NOT have them with this woman. It's "all about her", and things WILL get ten times worse with children in the picture. I and others here have lived this scenario for your already, brother.

If she's cheating when things are going well... then what happens when life is giving you two lemons (and it will, such is life).

FWIW my wife of 20 years was narcissistic and self involved. It was 'all about her'. Still, we had 12 great years until the children were born. Even then, she didn't cheat until we had a great deal of additional career related issues thrown in the mix. On DDay I was done. Done. Best decision I ever made even though it was 10 years too late. Your situation is a no-brainer.

You owe her nothing.

edited to add: screw the promise to wait 90 days. That's nothing compared to wedding vows. Year long sexual affair???

[This message edited by antlered at 6:59 PM, August 7th (Monday)]

antlered: I've repeated over and over to myself over the last five weeks: THANK GOD we didn't bring any children into this mess!

But you make a great point that I didn't think of. If I actually ever *do* want children, this isn't the woman to mother them. Especially because she has mentioned many times how her unhappiness and stress level at work had chipped away at her mental state and made her vulnerable to the A.

Many people have caught on that this affair clearly was going to continue, had I not found out about it. Hell, the other day she found the final correspondence she had sent to the OM before I found out-- sent about 6 hours before I got the message from the OMBW, in fact. I commend her for having the balls to own up and show it to me instead of just deleting it... but man did it paint a completely different picture than the one she was portraying.

I am very very (very) stressed at work as well. I haven't had my penis fall into anyone as a result.

that message that she let you see is the truth, not the lies that she is telling you.

Words are cheap. actions are important.

How would she feel if you had a year affair?

Okay by her? she could have gotten stds and passed them on to you.

She could have his kid.

She has no idea of the pain she gave to you and she makes a good politician, but a horrible wife.

Hope you get a good attorney and run. If you stay with her, she will do it again.

Jello,

Yes it's so very fortunate kids aren't mixed up in this.

They are an added stressor for sure. Having young children made her very unhappy honestly. Kids are stressful and emotionally draining. Some people aren't cut out for it honestly.

My guess is that your WW, like my ex is skilled at compartmentalizing. My ex is so great at this is it's almost like she's different people at times. It takes an intelligent person with piss-poor coping skills to carry this off to that degree. She was planning a life with another man while living a life with me and the kids. Which is the "real" her? [Both and none was my eventual conclusion.] Three years on and she is with another guy who is a lot like me maybe OM is still in the picture but not my problem to puzzle anymore thank God. I'm raising my two DDs and occasionally dating at 47. You are 32 without kids, take a wild guess what my advice to you would be?

My guess is your WW really wants to keep the M, but for her own reasons and not for yours. Obvious that she went in for an additional source of excitement/validation/attention but eventually got caught, and NOW she is anxious that she will lose her main source of emotional support. Again, it's all about her.

Perhaps I'm projecting my own experiences here, so feel free to disregard everything here. If it does resonate however, keep in mind that choosing D is not weak nor a betrayal, it's perfectly rational.

sent about 6 hours before I got the message from the OMBW, in fact. I commend her for having the balls to own up and show it to me instead of just deleting it... but man did it paint a completely different picture than the one she was portraying

Did she mention wanting to run away with him in this final message?

You have enough information and you know the truth. She can only lie if you allowed it.

Accept the truth so you can make a decision.

Kudos on taking strong action in separating. It will help you in the long run.

Lux,

A different take leading to same perspective as many posters.

She was gas lighting you during the A. Especially that set of communication about the weekend day w/OM. She was gas lighting you after exposure. I consider TT to be gas lighting. My opinion is that all of her subsequent communication to you (as you've posted on your thread) is also gas lighting.

Everything you've recounted about her is image management on her part. I don't even see regret. Just image management.

She was willing to say anything to you to facilitate the A. She's willing to say anything to you now.

You'll find support here for any decision you chose to make (other than rug sweeping, doing the "pick me dance", or remaining in limbo [which is a form of rug sweeping]).

If she were to show remorse that does not earn her the right to try and restore some semblance of your relationship with her. Any eventual remorse she may display does not outweigh your right to call her cheating a deal breaker.

Did she mention wanting to run away with him in this final message?

No, but she definitely didn't sound like a person who was looking to end the affair, I can tell you that much.

LuxuryJellO

I have been reading your thread but hast posted before.

IMHO you have a very clear view of her A (what happened, where, if she was going to end it, just sex or EA as well, etc) so I suggest to move your attention and energy to your self: take care of you, eat well, excessive, go out with friends, etc) The idea is to get your mind as well as possible when the 90 days runs out, so you will be in a better mind set to decide.

Your WW is a proven lier, so all you have is what you collected and facts without considering her side notes (e.g. She wrote a love letter to him, sent email to him just before Day but she was thinking of ending it... No in love with him, but can not explain her feelings at the A, etc)

IMHO go dark on her, time without communicating at all, and see how you feel about her in this time.

Some people can R, some other can't.

Even if you decide to R you must know that you can walk away any time, in a day or in 10 years.

Good luck

Last thing,

The A was her choice, and her only.

WS try to justify her I fidelity by different factors that they can not control, or just partially, like: the fog, affirmation, been broken, etc. IMO if you can not use it in court to justify a crime you should not accepted as it proves that they were aware of what we're they doing all the time.

Marriage is a voyage with good and bad moments, ask your self what may happen when real problem arrive (kids, changing jobs, etc)... If she is broken, ask your self if you want to share your life with a broken person.

I will just say this, and it sort of goes against the general tone of this thread - it's not about what your wife wants at this point, it's about what YOU want. And - and this is coming from me, a BS as well - it IS wise advice to say that knowing what you really want takes time, and you can't really put a deadline on that. There should be no 'this is the date I will make the decision about our future' - you may need more time. You may need less, but I do think it's worth getting a little further away from D-Day to make that decision.

I agree that it's not her words that matter, it's her actions. It may only be regret right now and not REAL remorse, but IMO, most of the time real remorse requires IC, a LOT of introspection and digging into the darkest parts of oneself and figuring out the 'whys', and a LOT of honest, deep and often hellishly difficult conversation with the BS (if they choose R). I DO wholeheartedly believe one thing, though - a lot of affair sh*t, the things that are said and done, make NO sense. And when a WS looks back after getting that blast of cold water - they don't think it makes sense, either.

I try to (and this is not valid, in some people's opinions, because there WERE extenuating circumstances, ie a marriage and betrayal of vows, but bear with me) think of it like MY old relationships that I am no longer in. I had a long-term bf once that I said I loved on a daily basis, thought I still did. I kept the relationship going FAR beyond what it should have. I was relieved when we broke up, and realized right then that I hadn't loved him for a long time and should have ended it before. And looking back on our relationship at the end there was sort of cringeworthy to me later on. But I still thought I meant the stuff I was saying at the time, still thought I wanted to be with him. In hindsight, I realize I didn't really.

It happens. Hindsight is 20/20. Just because what she's saying now doesn't match what she was saying then doesn't mean she didn't believe and mean BOTH things. It sucks for you, and it's SO unfair because in the end, YOU were the one she owed her fidelity to and it never should have EVER come up with someone else. This situation is utter crap. But...just being devil's advocate here. Her explanations don't make sense because she's scrambling to figure out what the hell she was thinking too. So she's saying things as they come to her, which is why true remorse and understanding of self takes time and a LOT more thinking/exploring. You know?

You're angry, and you should be. You're traumatized. Some distance might help, or you might already be set in your decision. Whatever you do, just make sure you take whatever time YOU need and act according to what YOU feel is best for YOU. She will continue to work on herself, hopefully, so she comes out the other end a better person...with or without you and the marriage.

You can D and part ways. You can R and do the work together if her actions back up the stuff she's saying. Or you can D, then remarry later once you see she's really changed. Or...I don't know. My point is...make sure what you do is really what you want to do. Not what she wants to do, not what the people on this forum tell you you should do. Their advice comes from the heart, as might her wish to build a new, better marriage as a safe partner for you - but in the end, it's your life.

You know? And also PS - I had surgery today and am on meds, so sorry if this message was long and rambling. Norco is my friend right now.

[This message edited by beauchateaux at 12:39 AM, August 8th (Tuesday)]

Mrhealed: Thanks for the advice. Focusing on myself is something that I've only recently realized I need to do. Don't get me wrong, I've been trying to keep busy with work and stuff, but all of a sudden this weekend it hit me that there's absolutely nobody out there looking out for ME right now. That's why I signed up for IC, which will start in a few days. Hopefully the doc isn't a quack. (Never done counseling before. Can you tell?)

beauchateaux: Thank you truly for your very articulate reply. If you write like that while on drugs, I can only imagine how eloquent you can be when you have full cognition. Honestly, it makes me a little depressed to think about (I'm a professional writer by trade).

To your points, I really, truly want to understand her motives for the A, just so that I could get a clear picture of what happened.

And I would LOVE IT if she showed signs of real remorse... But you're right, it's all in actions. And right now, her actions are so sporadic that I don't know what's going on in her head. Due to the events of the last year, all my assumptions go straight to her probably being deceptive and manipulative. That's a hole she's dug herself into.

We're looking out for you.

I agree that you need to focus on yourself and go 100% dark. You are in an abuse cycle and you just need some time to steady yourself.

If you are not eating right then protein shakes like muscle milk are easy to chug down. Be sure to drink over 100oz/water a day!

Ha, you are most welcome. And thanks about my writing...if I could just channel it into a novel I'd be...well, probably not rich. But maybe more fulfilled. I'm unwilling to become an addict to make it happen, though. Ha!

The fact is, right now, you're biased against her. You should be. She has proven herself to be a very capable liar with the scary ability to compartmentalize and make justifications for terrible behavior. BUT, all I'm saying is, these are the things she'd be working on in IC, and it takes time to peel back all the layers. In the meantime, she DOES owe you answers, but the answers she gives you will not always make sense - and sometimes, they'll smack of bully-sh*tty (as my grandpa used to say through clenched teeth).

What you really need to think about, and what I had to think about when it happened to me and my husband started IC, was whether I wanted to stick around while this is going on. You may decide you love her and want to offer the gift (not the right, not the entitlement, but the GIFT) of a second chance. You may not, and this may be a dealbreaker for you. I just want you to know there is no shame in either, and every situation is different - just because some situations were untenable and the BS chose divorce, doesn't mean yours is inevitable (unless you say it is). Just because some people successfully R doesn't mean your situation is conducive to that in the end.

It depends on her, yes...but also you. It's a delicate, gut-wrenching decision. Alas, you have to make it. She is steadfast in wanting R and working on herself - if her actions match her words over time, maybe you can stay. Maybe not. I'm being redundant and repeating things, so I'll be ending this reply now. Heh.

One more thing: when I decided to indeed stick around, I had a toddler and an infant. They definitely, 100% figured into my decision - I would have probably left otherwise. But...I didn't, and it's going well, so. C'est la vie.

[This message edited by beauchateaux at 1:11 AM, August 8th (Tuesday)]

I'm often baffled by the shock BS's feel when they determine the affair would have continued if it hadn't been discovered...i think to myself - of course it would have continued! They are in unicorn skittle farting fantasy land - they have all the ego strokes they can handle and the benefits of being master compartmenalizers, justifiers and minimizes. Those qualities are the hallmarks of waywards. Very few wake up one day and say "what i am doing is wrong. I will stop now."

What's important is if they want the affair to continue after dday - after witnessing the devastation of their spouse on dday. THAT is what brings about the revulsion for the AP and the affair. Until discovery, there are only two witnesses to the ugly - the wayward spouse and the AP and they both like it. It's kind of like when someone is into a weird fetish. When they are around other people with that fetish they're open about it and declaring how awesome it is...but suddenly someone they care about discovers the weird fetish and they feel shame. They view themselves through the lens of that person and they're all about denying the fetish.

People have affairs and count on never getting caught. To spend time on the potential repercussions of getting caught is certainly not hot or sexy or anything like a unicorn and so they dont think about it.

You seem to have a good handle on this OP...don't twist yourself into a pretzel to reconcile. It's okay that this is a dealbreaker for you - and its okay if circumstances down the road permit reconciliation. Remember, if you divorce, you can always remarry if she becomes a healthy partner and you want to try again.

Quick logistics question - you are worried about health care post-divorce. Have you spoken with you lawyer about this and if so what was his response?

Welcome Jello. You've been given all sorts of terrific advice, and very much largely consistent, so you seem to be in good hands. On top of that, you came to the table with a clear idea of how you want to proceed with this shit sandwich you've been served at the Cheating Wife Cafe, so that's another big advantage. You'll get from Point A to Point B in time and come out fine I'm sure.

I just thought I'd add a few thoughts for your consideration:

- Do you have a real person to talk to about all of this too? The folks at SI unfortunately have a huge advantage of having experienced what you have, and the regulars here have seen it all, so you'll get great practical advice. But missing is the one-to-one with the dear friend or family member who knows you well and can offer comfort (and maybe even some decent advice). I wanted to suggest if you haven't already that you open up to someone you know and trust because I think it will be a big help too.

- My personal view is that there's a BIG difference between a M and a M sans children. You're only married a few years and I just wonder what the huge difference is between dating and being married at this point. You don't have a lifelong obligation to your WW because there are no kids involved. I'm sure dealing with the house will be annoying, but so is traffic on the 405 I'm sure. Eventually you get through it. In any event, you date someone to figure out if you're compatible with them. I'm going to hazard a guess that if your girlfriend cuts your nuts off while you're asleep you're probably going to decide there's a certain incompatibility in the relationship. That's pretty much what you have here. From your posts it really does sound like you're heading for D and my suggestion would be that you consider filing sooner rather than later. You can always change your mind later.

- You mentioned that you may start doing some face-to-face time with your WW. From everything you've described, and from what I've seen here at SI, dollars to donuts she'll try to get you to have sex with her. That's such a bad idea for so many reasons, the least of which is the potential for STDs and her getting pregnant, not to mention how that's going to mess you up emotionally. I wanted to throw that out there because for some BS's that becomes just too tempting.

Good luck.

luxjello - I'm not really sure what you're going to do. You're probably not either, which is probably good at this stage. What I'd like to suggest though is to have her take a polygraph. It does a couple of things. If she's lying or still manipulating, it forces her to face the truth with out "spin." That can do wonders for getting her to finally wake up and become remorseful. How do you know when they're remorseful? When she's snot-blubbering, mascara-running, falling apart, basically, humbly begging you to stay. I think the key is humility. you will know it when you see it. Because then she finally realizes what she's done, without the spin. On top of that, you finally can feel secure that you have the complete truth. Which can be very reassuring in this sea of deception.

However, if you're thinking of cutting bait, don't bother with the poly. Just divorce her.

good luck friend

[This message edited by mike7 at 9:40 AM, August 8th (Tuesday)]

Luxury,

I am not as active here as on other threads but your story is compelling. I have read your thread thoroughly.

My take is this....

Yes, your wife cheated, did some things that may well break your ability to rebuild the relationship forever. However, you're still here looking for answers and asking questions. This tells me that to some degree (you probably don't even know to what degree) are still in the "not sure what the correct thing to do.

That said, I can tell you one thing. You will never know if it can be put back together while you and your WW are separated. I think it will be impossible for her to demonstrate her resolve with the limited contact you two now have. That being said, please understand that this is coming from someone that has always said that infidelity in a M is a deal breaker for me, after reading all this, I am not sure I still see this as that black and white. Many of the posts coming your way are coming from hurt and hurting individuals with what they feel is your best interest at heart. That said, stay true to your self.

If this were me in your situation, I would want to be sure I did everything possible to heal the M before I pulled the plug with D. This would include a gradual re-uniting. Maybe have her back for a night, (sleeping in another room but the exposure will allow her to show with actions what you have been consistently looking for in the change that is needed. Then gradually maybe a date night or a weekend at the house etc. I see reconciliation as being two sided, yes the fist step is on her to convince you that she is committed but communication is both transmitting and receiving. She can do all the right things but if you are not receptive, there is no point. I think there are many components running through your mind at this time..."how can I accept this situation", "How will I look by accepting her back" etc. That being said, this is your decision but and I say it is a hard but, If you have no intention of attempting a reconciliation, go ahead and end the torture for both of you. Begin the individual healing. I personally see you and not wanting the D but trying to navigate the healing, this may be something she can help you with but not while separated.

My prayers and best wishes are with you!!