SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

This is my first post here so I apologize if I am not using all of the jargon correctly

So, I discovered my wife's affair just over two months ago, after sixteen years of marriage. As I have learned its a pretty common experience to believe that our marriage was "special". I was most certainly under that delusion and as I have learned, that is a dangerous delusion to hold. I have carried a conviction from childhood about what I wanted marriage to be. My parents had a horrible marriage and I modeled all of my actions within my own marriage to be the opposite of what I witnessed. I never said a word to her that I couldn't take back. I never laid a hand on her in anger. I made myself emotionally available to her and offered all of the affection she wanted to take. Our sex life is still strong, even to this day. I have not been a perfect husband by any stretch of the imagination, but I did try hard to avoid giving my wife reason's to look outside of marriage for intimacy. Yet, here I am. I have been handed a life I have tried hard to avoid.

On the spectrum of some of the stories I have heard on this forum, her infidelity could be considered minor. She had an emotional affair for 3 months that including some physical intimacy. That is cold comfort, though, as she was simply caught too quickly to really get into the things she planned to do. She had the affair with a life long friend's husband, I knew both him, his wife, and their children.

I feel its important to the story to talk about how the affair came out as it really says a lot to how I am feeling now. I actually began to pick up on the affair almost immediately as it begun. She started becoming obsessed with her appearance and showing very poor judgement in almost every aspect of her life. Red flags were going up everywhere. At first I thought it was a midlife crisis and here was my exact warning to her "I think your going through a midlife crisis, please don't do anything stupid". A little while later I "joked" that she was showing all of the classic symptoms of a cheating spouse, showing her an article on the internet. About a month before she was caught, I asked her if she was cheating- of course she denied it. I didn't have any evidence, just a gut feeling, so I let it rest.

So, the day comes when she gets caught. It's funny that until the last second, she believed she was too smart to get caught (or I was so dumb). The exact details are less important, but as I programmer I know that text messages aren't really deleted. I was able to recover more than enough evidence from her phone to clearly prove I knew what was going on. I wasn't so stupid after all. Evidence in hand, I asked her to just tell me the truth before I revealed to her the evidence I possessed. She knew that her actions that evening were highly suspicious and she knew something was up (she had been to OM's house to have sex earlier that evening). I told her I knew something was going on and just to please tell me the truth.

She preceded to lie like a pro, looking me directly in the eyes. My father was a pathological liar and she would have fooled me if I didn't have the evidence. She lied and lied and lied. I asked her again, I know you are not telling me the truth, please come out with it. More lies.

I then showed her the "deleted" text messages I could recover that clearly showed she was having an affair. Shock and silence followed for about 15 minutes. Then came the pathetic groveling (from her) that foreshadowed three weeks of groveling and lies.

On a side note, the second I saw the first deleted text to the OM, my heart shattered into a million pieces. I hit rock bottom and have scarcely improved in two months.

I demanded an immediate end to the affair. She sent a text saying it was over. Over the next week started the painful process to find out what happened. Unfortunately, instead of owning up to anything, she lied and obstructed at every turn. She invented an alternate narrative to the affair to protect the AP. She told me that she had the affair with a surgeon at work and I forced her to give me a name. She gave me a real name of a totally innocent man. She weaved an entirely false narrative around this man.

Needless to say, the story was full of holes that I was able to pick apart, piece by painful piece. I knew she was lying from the start. It was shocking and surreal to be apart of that process. Finally, I told her I was going to contact this innocent man for his side of the story, because the truth wasn't coming from her. Only at that point did she own up to the real AP. In those three weeks, she told hundreds of lies, all over and above the lies that enabled the affair. Dozens of times she said "This is the complete truth- no more lies". She uttered that phrase with utter certainty every time she said it.

Might I add that, up until even now, every single detail of the affair has been forced out of her by means of proving something contradictory in something she said. That's too harsh, but about 90% of what I know for certain was lied about on one occasion or another.

At this point in the story, we are three weeks past discovery. During this time, she outwardly seemed remorseful and seemed highly motivated to fix the marriage. Kinda silly, right? More like insane. The real tough part is that we never had trust issues prior to this. She was always the "good girl" and me and my family adored her.

It is also important to add at this point that we have two young children. Their welfare has always been at the forefront of my decision making process when I thought about what happens next. Even after all of the betrayal and post-affair deception, I am willing to R. I am willing to try and make the best of a bad situation. We even saw a marriage counselor a few times, but I ceased that when I realized it was pointless because she possessed and still possesses very little introspection. She is now seeking IC.

As far as my wife, she claims to be absolutely truthful after she revealed the affair partner. She is very remorseful for the affair and the lies that followed. She claims she was protecting the other family, thus all the lies. She is desperately trying to show me she is worthy of another chance. She says all the right things, though she is still very shallow in the introspection department. In short, she appears to be trying hard to fix things.

There are multiple problems, though. I don't think I will ever totally trust her again on any important issue regarding our relationship. She lied too many times so skillfully. Any sort of real trust is years off, if ever. In addition, the more that time passes, I think I am falling out of love with her. I don't know how else to explain it. In my own head, I hear all of these stories about having "good and bad days" for years to come and that scares the shit out of me. I didn't sign up for this life. I tried hard to avoid a life like this. This is not a struggle I want to be having five years from now.

The kids, though, the kids. I don't know if anything I do will spare them pain in the long term. I really do want to try at R, but my heart is starting to push her away while my brain is telling me to do otherwise. I know that the R trajectory is headed downwards right now and I just hate the thought of struggling like this for years to come. I do love my wife, but this betrayal cuts too deep. I am not sure the damage can be repaired.

I know that two months doesn't provide much perspective. I know that I will enter IC at some point. Maybe general MC is in the cards at some point again too. I am not going to make any rash decisions, but I hate the options put before me.

You say that you know you will enter IC at some point. Why not now? You've got some difficult decisions to make and a very painful betrayal to process. Why try to do that on your own?

I put off IC for two years thinking I could struggle through on my own. All that got me was into a fairly nasty depression. The brain acts like a rat caught in a maze searching desperately for answers that make sense when there aren't any. New trauma-based treatments like EMDR and neurofeedback, even mindfulness techniques when practiced skillfully, will help to speed your processing. Look for a counselor who is well-versed in both infidelity and trauma.

Bear in mind that it's still early days for you and that you aren't at ANY obligation to stay chained to a cheater. This frees you up to make your decision in such a way as to not feel trapped by it later. I know you have kids and you want to do the best by them. But your happiness is important too, because just as you saw the influence your parent's marriage had on you, so too will you be modeling marriage for them. Make sure it's one you can be happy with, and take whatever time you need to making a decision about it.

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 5:03 AM, September 12th (Tuesday)]

Swatter, good morning. Welcome to SI. Please check the Healing library in the corner of your screen. It helps a lot with questions you may have.

Of course you hate the options because they all suck right now. Your story struck a chord with me because i, too, tried to avoid the marriage I saw in my childhood, only to end up here. To me, that makes the betrayal that much harder because they know our past. I'm so sorry you are going through this.

Two months is early. You are right. At two months, I'd lost 20 pounds and was not sleeping much. Please consider taking some time to really process it all.

The trust is difficult. I struggled for a long time to believe the A still wasn't going on or that he was making any changes at all. If it helps, I do have some trust now and I do see progress. You mention that she has little introspection. That happens often with waywards...either early on or just the fact that some have never learned to be self-aware. The IC is crucial for them to start to really gain that awareness and empathy they need for you to start feeling safe.

I, too, stayed for the kids in the beginning. It's only by seeing him change over these two years that I can begin to relax some. It has not be an easy road.

Take dome time for you. Read a lot. Journal. Get IC for trauma (all of that TT IS trauma). Start to feel better. And watch her actions and the work she is doing without your interference. If you feel a polygraph will help, that is an option too.

I'm glad you found us but I'm sorry you have a reason to be here. Take small steps each day. You are not alone.

[This message edited by demolishedinside at 5:08 AM, September 12th (Tuesday)]

I'm so sorry.

None of it is minor. Yes, it could have been worse. But it should have been a whole lot better.

For posting purposes I will refer to myself a x months out from Dday 1 or 2 but in my heart I know I judge my actual progress from the last time I can prove he lied to me. Yes, I did a lot between DDay 1 and that day two months ago when he broke his promise not to contact his AP but while the emotional and physical affair hurts very much, that looking in my eyes as I beg for the truth and telling me something else, that is the thing that makes me truly crazy.

I don't know if I will ever trust again. I don't know if I could have stayed if we didn't have kids. But I CAN tell that I still love my husband, no matter how little love he showed to me over the course of this year. I think you'll know if there is anything left to save, and if there isn't you can put that effort into giving your kids the best life and as much attention as possible and showing them what a considerate and polite co-parenting relationship looks like.

Good luck, either way. I'm sorry for what has happened to you.

Read and understand the 180. It will strengthen and empower you.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/confrontation/understanding-the-180.asp

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/confrontation/simplified-180.asp

She is a lying cheating whore. Treat her like one and let her come begging for forgiveness. Until then she is still a lying cheating whore.

Get yourself into IC IMMEDIATELY. You need help. Lean on your close friends and family. Bring their affair's ugly lies into the light of day for examination by those you can count on for support and guidance.

Notify the OM wife. Immediately. They deserve this truth too and to bring it to the light of day for introspection and truth. It will help to stop the A cold in its tracks with the raw ugliness of their lies of their false other life. The OMW will be your barometer that it is over, and if not plan on how to share information to make it stop. Share your timeline and evidence. She can likely shed light into missing details your WW is unwilling and unable to share.

Notify the employer, HR department, management. They too can make changes to ensure they are on 'watch' while at work. Affairs to not survive under the light of true daylight. Affairs are deep dark lies, secrets, deception that affect hundreds of people around them.

Used2behappy,

This is Swatter's first post...perhaps you can tread a little lighter? I remember that first post...

Dem

I think it's very natural to be guarded like you are right now. It may signal the end to the relationship as your heart grows colder. Or you could be in a wait-and-see mode. It's possible that if she put in a VERY strong, sustained effort with 100% honesty, empathy, commitment to IC and making any amends possible, your heart would soften. Or not.

It's probably too early to say.

When I found out about FWH and his girlfriend (uggh), I went into serious self-protection mode. He was kicked out for almost a week because I couldn't bear to see his face. When he came back home he slept in the spare room for most of 6 months. I allowed myself to share with him every pain, every outrage, every gut-wrenching agony that I felt. He needed to see it and accept it.

Actions meet consequences.

I never completely closed my heart or closed the door to him, however. I was afraid that if I did, we'd never find our way back, and I wanted that to remain a possibility.

He took it. He comforted me. He reassured me. He worked hard in IC. He was transparent and honest. Over time, I slowly, very slowly opened up.

Be open to it - if she proves herself. And only if.

Does the other betrayed spouse (OBS) know? I ask because she has every right to know. The OW in my case wasn't in another relationship so there was no one to notify but it's always recommended to do so if there is. That person needs to know who they are married to. Because, of course, your WW may not be their only affair. The OBS needs to know they should be tested for STD's and so on.

A lot of times the waywards reaction to the OBS being told can be a litmus test of sorts as to their true level of remorse. Would she be more concerned with protecting him still? Or is she willing to throw him under the bus to save her marriage and help you heal? This may be your next move.

Others will advise you how to approach this. I believe the usual advice is for you to contact the OBS yourself so that your WW doesn't have a chance to warn the AP first. Often waywards will inform their AP, who then tells the OBS that you're crazy and jealous over nothing and by the time you inform - your words have no meaning. Or the wayward will find ways to block you from contacting their spouse, intercepting messages and so on.

Also, if your WW tells you that the OBS already knows, don't believe her. That's a common tactic to keep you from informing. Or that they are divorcing. Or that they have an open marriage.

There are so many common lies in this situation. Another tactic is to tell you that the OBS is abusive and it would be dangerous to inform them because people might get hurt. Such common lies/manipulations. Just inform - with all the evidence you have - before telling your WW. Then see how she reacts.

That will tell you volumes.

All the best to you, Swatter.

ChamomileTea:

"The brain acts like a rat caught in a maze searching desperately for answers that make sense when there aren't any."

I have come to this realization. For weeks I was looking for meaning and answers that could somehow make this more bearable. There aren't any.

"Look for a counselor who is well-versed in both infidelity and trauma."

You are correct, thanks. No reason to put it off.

"Bear in mind that it's still early days for you and that you aren't at ANY obligation to stay chained to a cheater. This frees you up to make your decision in such a way as to not feel trapped by it later. I know you have kids and you want to do the best by them. But your happiness is important too, because just as you saw the influence your parent's marriage had on you, so too will you be modeling marriage for them. Make sure it's one you can be happy with, and take whatever time you need to making a decision about it."

If we stay together, we could be modelling a crappy marriage, yes. I am so far from happiness that it almost doesn't even seem like a consideration at this point.

demolishedinside:

"Your story struck a chord with me because i, too, tried to avoid the marriage I saw in my childhood, only to end up here. To me, that makes the betrayal that much harder because they know our past."

The betrayal slices even deeper. We tried to avoid this.

"I'm so sorry you are going through this."

Thank you, that means more to me than anything my wife has said to me in 2 months.

"Two months is early. You are right. At two months, I'd lost 20 pounds and was not sleeping much. Please consider taking some time to really process it all."

I have lost 33 pounds in the last two months. Working out has been my major coping mechanism. It's good, yet so terrible.

"I, too, stayed for the kids in the beginning. It's only by seeing him change over these two years that I can begin to relax some. It has not be an easy road."

The kids are why my butt is still here, but I am trying to make the best of a bad situation. My wife is trying hard, too hard in my opinion. She is way over compensating, much like she was doing during the affair. She is so dangerous to me.

"I'm glad you found us but I'm sorry you have a reason to be here. Take small steps each day. You are not alone."

Thanks again, I do appreciate your words.

moralhighground:

"For posting purposes I will refer to myself a x months out from Dday 1 or 2 but in my heart I know I judge my actual progress from the last time I can prove he lied to me. Yes, I did a lot between DDay 1 and that day two months ago when he broke his promise not to contact his AP but while the emotional and physical affair hurts very much, that looking in my eyes as I beg for the truth and telling me something else, that is the thing that makes me truly crazy."

Being cheated on and being introduced to a horrible liar all at the same time is almost too much for me to take. Freaking liars, telling the truth isn't that hard.

"I don't know if I will ever trust again. I don't know if I could have stayed if we didn't have kids. But I CAN tell that I still love my husband, no matter how little love he showed to me over the course of this year. I think you'll know if there is anything left to save, and if there isn't you can put that effort into giving your kids the best life and as much attention as possible and showing them what a considerate and polite co-parenting relationship looks like.

Good luck, either way. I'm sorry for what has happened to you."

Thank you, I do appreciate the sentiments.

Used2bhappy10:

"She is a lying cheating whore. Treat her like one and let her come begging for forgiveness. Until then she is still a lying cheating whore."

She has been begging for forgiveness fifteen minutes after she was caught. It is a defense mechanism for her. It truly means little to me that she is begging for forgiveness.

"Notify the OM wife"

Within minutes of her big lie breaking down I was calling this OM wife.

findingjoy:

"I think it's very natural to be guarded like you are right now. It may signal the end to the relationship as your heart grows colder. Or you could be in a wait-and-see mode. It's possible that if she put in a VERY strong, sustained effort with 100% honesty, empathy, commitment to IC and making any amends possible, your heart would soften. Or not.

It's probably too early to say."

You are correct, its too early to know. The thing is that I have no idea, at this point, what are lies and truth. In a way, my feet cannot even touch the ground, because there is no ground level of accepted truth.

"When I found out about FWH and his girlfriend (uggh), I went into serious self-protection mode. He was kicked out for almost a week because I couldn't bear to see his face. When he came back home he slept in the spare room for most of 6 months. I allowed myself to share with him every pain, every outrage, every gut-wrenching agony that I felt. He needed to see it and accept it.

Actions meet consequences."

I am still in serious self protection mode. Unfortunately, there is such a lack of true empathy, honesty, and introspection that I feel like I am wasting my breath talking about the way I feel. She doesn't understand and doesn't try hard to. Most of her guilt is for the jeopardy she put the kids in and her own shattered self image.

"I never completely closed my heart or closed the door to him, however. I was afraid that if I did, we'd never find our way back, and I wanted that to remain a possibility."

Thank you for this. I can feel the door closing.

"He took it. He comforted me. He reassured me. He worked hard in IC. He was transparent and honest. Over time, I slowly, very slowly opened up.

Be open to it - if she proves herself. And only if."

I'll try, I really will.

"A lot of times the waywards reaction to the OBS being told can be a litmus test of sorts as to their true level of remorse."

This is where things get weird. The other man, we will call him Matt and his wife, we will call her Jewel. Jewel has repeated cheated on Matt. Mind you that my wife and Jewel were very good friends... the affair Matt and my wife had was based on his dissatisfaction for Jewel. They talked about it very often. Of course, I was also a popular topic of dumping for them. They really loved to crap all over each others spouse.

Of course, Matt was trying to get Jewel back for her previous affairs. It is interesting that I got drug into all of this because of the affairs Jewel had years ago. Isn't life grand.

I do not want this shit show!!!!

"Also, if your WW tells you that the OBS already knows, don't believe her. That's a common tactic to keep you from informing."

I did contact "Jewel". However, I am sure there are lies out there still lurking and waiting to be found.

Thank you all for you replies. One "I'm sorry" from you fine people is worth more than a thousand from my wife.

[This message edited by swatter555 at 5:05 PM, September 12th (Tuesday)]

Two months in. I'm sorry you have a reason to be here, Swatter - I know that while this place has been something of a sanctuary to me, I still wish every single day that I had never needed to know about it.

At two months, I had moments when I thought I was pretty okay, but they were...well, they were like false prophets, right? Because I was so very much not okay. There were the briefest of moments of lucidity that were eclipsed by the shock and horror of it all, and I can remember feeling like everything was so surreal and could someone just please tell me how to get back to the world I knew. I would wake up every day, and for a few relatively blissful seconds, I wouldn't yet remember what had happened. And then it would overwhelm me, and I felt like I was once again pulled in by an undertow so fierce that drowning would eventually be inevitable. Land was nowhere in sight, and there was that realization that my husband had willingly put me here, and I could no longer trust his outstretched hand because what if he pulled it away, laughing and saying, "Haha, just kidding!"

I also remember taking my teen son - who, by the way, had overheard a large portion of the conversation where my husband and I had "discussed" what he'd done with another woman - to his therapy appointment. I'd emailed his therapist to let him know of this latest development at home, and more than 2.5 years later, I still cry when I think of sitting in his office after he'd met with my boy (who had left the room), and that kind man spoke softly to me, asking so gently, "How are you doing?" Like...he cared. This person was essentially a stranger to me, who I paid to help my kid to work through HIS problems, and for a moment, his compassion took me by such surprise, because after what my husband had done, the notion that someone could see me and give a damn about how I felt? It was a gift, in a way - a lifeline, even - to have that small reminder that perhaps I was not invisible after all.

I can remember begging my husband to just "rip the bandaid off" and tell me everything. And like you wrote, Dozens of times she said "This is the complete truth- no more lies". She uttered that phrase with utter certainty every time she said it. my husband would assure me that, this time, he had told me everything and "now the bandaid is finally off". Except, of course, it wasn't. And every time I would think that his newest revelation is so awful that maybe it really is the final truth, I was knocked down again to discover that apparently my husband must think that I was covered with a lot of bandaids. And if I was, he put them there.

Your wife is not yet remorseful. She might regret being caught, but that's not remorse - and she has a long way to go before she gets there, sorry to say. If she isn't motivated to come completely clean - even without you discovering things - and if she's not being genuinely responsive to what she's done to you - she's not at remorse. I don't think most WSs get to remorse for many months; some take longer, and some never get there. Has she read "How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair"? If she hasn't, she should. And get the book, because she'll need to read it again and again. Probably take notes in it. Etc.

She claims she was protecting the other family? Psh. Of course she wasn't - she was protecting herself. She's still in self-protection mode, as you have surmised, and you are right to doubt pretty much everything she says. It will take a rather long time to begin to consider trusting much of anything she says; it starts when she begins to be honest with you AND HERSELF about what she did, and why she did it. So no, you'll likely never trust your wife like you did before. You might get to 95% or even 98%, but now you know that she is human and fallible and the one person you can trust above anyone else, is yourself. Your intuition.

There is a saying around here that you have to be willing to lose the marriage to save it. And the longer you're here, the more it makes sense. She must find her way back to authenticity and integrity, and she must do so even knowing that you might walk away. As long as she's changing the story to "save the marriage" or "protect the other family", she isn't safe and she isn't R material. As a side note, it's also okay if you eventually realize that this is a deal breaker. I think one of the saddest things we must confront after DDay is that all of our options seem awful.

This hasn't come out like I had hoped, because I wanted to be encouraging, and probably this doesn't seem encouraging. But you know, it's a long way to being a positive R story, and I don't think even I am there yet - and my husband is committed to R and "owns his shit" and all of that. It takes a long time to get to the other side of this ("they" say 2-5 years, and yes, it's overwhelming, especially when you are just starting out), and one of the hardest parts for me to accept is that in some ways, this will never go away completely. I have said to my husband a thousand times, "This isn't the marriage I wanted" and "How is this my life?".

So here's the thing: you are going to be okay. You really are. (((swatter555))) But this - well, it changes you. And that part doesn't go away. It has taken me a long, long time to accept that. It's also taken me a long time even to grasp the enormity of it. I remember reading "Not Just Friends" and being shocked at how dire it seemed. In hindsight, I don't think they make it seem dire enough. But I also remember thinking that Arabella Figg's description of dementors - “as though all of the happiness had gone from the world” - was a lot like how it feels to a betrayed spouse after DDay. And I can at least tell you that that doesn't remain true forever.

Have you seen this post? http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=502703

Hang in there, my friend. You're doing great. And you really are going to be okay.

[This message edited by BlueIris at 8:32 PM, September 12th (Tuesday)]

I would also say that I tried as hard as i could to avoid having my parents marriage, only to get one that was still fucked up. I don't have good advice for you, as I'm only 3 months in. But I wanted to say that I feel your pain and wish you the best.

My story is a lot like yours. I had a SPECIAL marriage too. My wife and I both came from parents with bad marriages and we both never wanted a marriage like those for ourselves. After 15 years of marriage my wife found a lover. I did not find out about it however for 20 more years. My D day was seven weeks ago. Life sucks for sure. You are at least lucky to be dealing with this in the present and not in the long past like I am. I sure wish I had the chance to have dealt with this 20 years ago. I don't know how it would've came out, but at least it would be behind me. I was 35 then with plenty of time ahead of me, at 55 now not so much. I was a really lucky guy, I married my high school sweetheart. I was really lucky that we have been together for 37 years now. Like you, I was lucky that I got their affair stopped before she had sex with him even more. I had asked some questions about him and they stopped before they got caught. I was especially lucky that I didn't find out about it for 20 years. My luckiest part of all is that my wife chose my life for me for the last 20 years. How lucky is that?

[This message edited by Jimmy1962 at 4:51 AM, September 13th (Wednesday)]

BlueIris

I still cry when I think of sitting in his office after he'd met with my boy (who had left the room), and that kind man spoke softly to me, asking so gently, "How are you doing?" Like...he cared. This person was essentially a stranger to me, who I paid to help my kid to work through HIS problems, and for a moment, his compassion took me by such surprise, because after what my husband had done, the notion that someone could see me and give a damn about how I felt? It was a gift, in a way - a lifeline, even - to have that small reminder that perhaps I was not invisible after all.

This is very touching. Sometimes the smallest things can make the biggest difference. Just want you to know that I closely read your whole post and I feel for you.

I can remember begging my husband to just "rip the bandaid off" and tell me everything. And like you wrote, Dozens of times she said "This is the complete truth- no more lies". She uttered that phrase with utter certainty every time she said it. my husband would assure me that, this time, he had told me everything and "now the bandaid is finally off". Except, of course, it wasn't. And every time I would think that his newest revelation is so awful that maybe it really is the final truth, I was knocked down again to discover that apparently my husband must think that I was covered with a lot of bandaids. And if I was, he put them there.

It's not bad enough you have to think of your SO sharing ultra personal things with persons not you, but they have to lie about it over and over again. Just one more stab with the dagger. Whose counting anyway.

Your wife is not yet remorseful. She might regret being caught, but that's not remorse - and she has a long way to go before she gets there, sorry to say. If she isn't motivated to come completely clean - even without you discovering things - and if she's not being genuinely responsive to what she's done to you - she's not at remorse. I don't think most WSs get to remorse for many months; some take longer, and some never get there. Has she read "How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair"? If she hasn't, she should. And get the book, because she'll need to read it again and again. Probably take notes in it. Etc.

I'm not going to sell her pain short. Though her pain is different than mine, she is suffering and remorseful. She realizes that her affair truly amounted to nothing and she became a terrible person for such little gain. She is just starting to get my pain, if only a glimmer.

Of course, she would have ended our marriage, in all likelihood, on her own accord had the opportunity been somewhat different. She had decided the marriage was expendable at one point and we are here trying R mostly by chance. Chance that she was caught quickly. Chance her AP hadn't taken their relationship more seriously.

She has a long way to go to really begin to understand why she believed I became expendable and our vows were optional to her. I am not going to accept anything less than deep introspection from her. I want a better person than the one lying up in my bed right now.

Btw, she will be "gifted" that book.

She claims she was protecting the other family? Psh. Of course she wasn't - she was protecting herself. She's still in self-protection mode, as you have surmised, and you are right to doubt pretty much everything she says. It will take a rather long time to begin to consider trusting much of anything she says; it starts when she begins to be honest with you AND HERSELF about what she did, and why she did it. So no, you'll likely never trust your wife like you did before. You might get to 95% or even 98%, but now you know that she is human and fallible and the one person you can trust above anyone else, is yourself. Your intuition.

Check.

There is a saying around here that you have to be willing to lose the marriage to save it. And the longer you're here, the more it makes sense. She must find her way back to authenticity and integrity, and she must do so even knowing that you might walk away. As long as she's changing the story to "save the marriage" or "protect the other family", she isn't safe and she isn't R material. As a side note, it's also okay if you eventually realize that this is a deal breaker. I think one of the saddest things we must confront after DDay is that all of our options seem awful.

If she does the hard work, I want to get over this. I hope I can. Our kids our worth ever effort I make and every risk I take.

This hasn't come out like I had hoped, because I wanted to be encouraging, and probably this doesn't seem encouraging. But you know, it's a long way to being a positive R story, and I don't think even I am there yet - and my husband is committed to R and "owns his shit" and all of that. It takes a long time to get to the other side of this ("they" say 2-5 years, and yes, it's overwhelming, especially when you are just starting out), and one of the hardest parts for me to accept is that in some ways, this will never go away completely. I have said to my husband a thousand times, "This isn't the marriage I wanted" and "How is this my life?".

Your supposed to be encouraging

So here's the thing: you are going to be okay. You really are. (((swatter555))) But this - well, it changes you. And that part doesn't go away. It has taken me a long, long time to accept that. It's also taken me a long time even to grasp the enormity of it. I remember reading "Not Just Friends" and being shocked at how dire it seemed. In hindsight, I don't think they make it seem dire enough. But I also remember thinking that Arabella Figg's description of dementors - “as though all of the happiness had gone from the world” - was a lot like how it feels to a betrayed spouse after DDay. And I can at least tell you that that doesn't remain true forever.

Thank you.

Jimmy1962

My story is a lot like yours. I had a SPECIAL marriage too. My wife and I both came from parents with bad marriages and we both never wanted a marriage like those for ourselves. After 15 years of marriage my wife found a lover. I did not find out about it however for 20 more years. My D day was seven weeks ago. Life sucks for sure. You are at least lucky to be dealing with this in the present and not in the long past like I am. I sure wish I had the chance to have dealt with this 20 years ago. I don't know how it would've came out, but at least it would be behind me. I was 35 then with plenty of time ahead of me, at 55 now not so much. I was a really lucky guy, I married my high school sweetheart. I was really lucky that we have been together for 37 years now. Like you, I was lucky that I got their affair stopped before she had sex with him even more. I had asked some questions about him and they stopped before they got caught. I was especially lucky that I didn't find out about it for 20 years. My luckiest part of all is that my wife chose my life for me for the last 20 years. How lucky is that?

I am honestly not sure which is worse. 37 years, you guys are really on a roll, though. It sounds like your wife conquered her demons.

she is still lying to you.

she is still in contact with him.

So do you get an affair with someone else?

She does not respect you.

She will do this again.

have you told her family? I see you told your mom.

have her explain to the kids that she murdered your marriage.

It is a dead carcass. you will never forget or trust her again.

how can she put your heart back in your chest?

She cut it out into little pieces, threw it into the fire ate it and there it is.

can she get it started beating again?

Your "friend" and your wife knew what affairs did to others and how it hurts.

So they did that to you.

Get out of infidelity.

She can have the OM. she is still in contact with him. Just not the kids.

File for D or at least get a pre nup.

If you are in a state where you can get a lawsuit against the OM, file.

You will never have the marriage you used to have. It is dead and she killed it.

I don't know if this will be encouraging or not (I'm pretty new as a BS, 6 months) but here goes...

When I caught my fWH at his cheating (4 years of "chatting" on hook up sites and 4 ONS's) I only saw that he had been chatting. He SWORE that it was only chatting! Next I saw that he had met with two whores..he SWORE it was ONLY TWO! Next I found some info. that indicated it was farther back in time that he had started and he finally came clean to the ONLY FOUR TOTAL. He was insane with fear at that time, fear that I would leave him and take away his whole life from him. It was a fear well founded.

I made him take a poly 3 months after Dday. He passed as having told me all the main details. It took him about 2 weeks to come clean. But that TT did as much damage as the ONS's cheating itself!

After the poly, at least I knew we were at ground zero and so did he. That is when the real work started for him really getting and seeing the devastation and damage. They can't even start seeing all the damage until they stop trying to cover their asses with lying.

He has been a model 180 spouse since that time of finally coming clean. IC, reading, journaling, accountability partner, pastoral counseling, helping me in every way he can to heal.

It may be a deal breaker for you, or you may decide to wait and see if she can truly become a loving safe partner again...totally up to you.

Personally, I'm glad I waited a bit for him to come out of the fog and to see the truth of the situation more clearly. We are trying to R. However I would have NEVER R'ed if I didn't see the 110% true effort from him. I don't want to throw away 30 + years and a best friend unless I absolutely have to. It was worth it to me as we had a good marriage before his EI started. I wanted to see if we could even have a hope of going back to that. I think we do.

Swatter555

I can relate to your story growing up with Not a great Family life and wanting something different when I had a family of my own. In fact my growing up was Shitty.

My DDay was long ago-12years and 3 months..My Parents were Teenagers when my sister and I were born. They divorced when I was 6, my sister and I lived with my mom while she worked nites, so we took care of ourselves at ages 6&8. I have very little memory of my childhood-Nothing being good...My mom was an alcoholic and drug addict, who moved us around all the time, so we didn't see our dad much till we got tired of her having ONS with different men every nite and having to switch schools and friends every time we moved. So my Freshman year of HS, my life got better when we both moved in with my Dad, and had a more stable life..

But I'm 45, I still don't have a good relationship with my mom, she still an addict, and now a loud mouth, so my kids don't have much to do with her either.

I never realized how much these terrible younger years had such a negative affect on me till I got older, and well in fact-My Entire life...

I dated my HighSchool Sweetheart for 12 years, and met my current husband less than 6 months after we broke up, I loved him enough after he asked me to marry him in 1 year I said Yes..and had my first child 3 years later at age 30.

I feel like from being around when My moms had her ONS messed me up, watching her never Love anyone.. For some reason I didn't think love really existed, and I never felt worthy chasing after "The man of my dreams" ??

Anyways. I knew when I had a family I would be there for my kids, always and put them first over me NO MATTER WHAT!

In our marriage I took care of the kids day and nite, my husband wanted to continue living a bit of the single life after marriage...Playing ball, darts, bowling...I didn't stop him, I trusted him. Looking back it was so wrong how much he was gone and I was home with the kids, and he agrees how selfish he was All those years too.. So we were married in1998, and DDay was 5-20-05, 4 days before my sons 4th bday. You can read my Bio, but my husband had a ONS, put himself somewhere he never should've been while again I was at home trying to make this perfect life for my kids..

I think about how my husband cried and begged me to forgive him. My husband also came from a divorced family, a mother who left him, I didn't want to see him not grow up without his kids..he loves them so much...I stayed, My kids were only 2&4 at the time..they are now 13&16.. I wish EVERY SINGLE DAY I would've left.Back then, We just kept busy raising kids, It wasn't that the trust didn't come back, it did, it was that I feel I deserved more! I lost my respect for myself over the years and my feelings just left...as the kids get older they are NOT dumb..they pick up on stuff..iWe don't fight in front of them, we bicker a little..Again nothing big. My son who's gonna be 17 asks me all the time"Mom, what did u ever see in Dad?" Because my husband can be very reserved, a bit boring..I loved him for his heart. For sure NOT his sense of humor. I'm the more fun one, laughing with and talking to the kids..he's more of the caretaker, provider, actually parenting would be way easier alone, as they only talk to me about "Life" and I'm the one who's there for them...He loves them with all his heart, but I think his mom leaving at age 12, never wanting to see him had an effect on him too...One he doesn't admit..

Anyways- I STAYED FOR MY KIDS. My heart is colder, he tries everyday to makeup for what he did. He can't...

We've just never been the same since DDAY, we've tried... I also miss so much who he was prior to the DDAY too. He tries so hard to make up for his ONS, Too please me, it's as if he's not even himself anymore. I want the person back that I married, not the one who sucks up to me every single day..Yep I could divorce. My son will be a senior next year. Right now I work for my father running a few properties he owns. My father wants my husband and I too take over and buy some of these properties at a great deal and I keep stalling my Dad as I just don't know if I can see my self with my husband the rest of my life?? I Can't, but it's scary to say out loud!!

I apologize if I'm rambling, I just want you to know that I wanted something so different for my kids too..something So Much Better, but in fact Staying together Made us more miserable as years went on, and the kids see it....He tries So Hard to make it better, and sometimes you just can't. People say WOW 12 years later and you STILL think about it?? Not everyday, But it changed who we were, how we acted... I just wanted to give you my feedback from someone who's 12 years down the road, and stayed For the kids..Don't stay for the kids, Stay for YOU and know you can move one...orGo and BE happy!! I wish I could tell my younger self that..Hang in there

BS 45

WS 48

2kids 14&16

ONS 5-20-05

Never cheated again

MJ0520

Swatter555

I can relate to your story growing up with Not a great Family life and wanting something different when I had a family of my own. In fact my growing up was Shitty.

My DDay was long ago-12years and 3 months..My Parents were Teenagers when my sister and I were born. They divorced when I was 6, my sister and I lived with my mom while she worked nites, so we took care of ourselves at ages 6&8. I have very little memory of my childhood-Nothing being good...My mom was an alcoholic and drug addict, who moved us around all the time, so we didn't see our dad much till we got tired of her having ONS with different men every nite and having to switch schools and friends every time we moved. So my Freshman year of HS, my life got better when we both moved in with my Dad, and had a more stable life..

But I'm 45, I still don't have a good relationship with my mom, she still an addict, and now a loud mouth, so my kids don't have much to do with her either.

I never realized how much these terrible younger years had such a negative affect on me till I got older, and well in fact-My Entire life...

I dated my HighSchool Sweetheart for 12 years, and met my current husband less than 6 months after we broke up, I loved him enough after he asked me to marry him in 1 year I said Yes..and had my first child 3 years later at age 30.

I feel like from being around when My moms had her ONS messed me up, watching her never Love anyone.. For some reason I didn't think love really existed, and I never felt worthy chasing after "The man of my dreams" ??

Anyways. I knew when I had a family I would be there for my kids, always and put them first over me NO MATTER WHAT!

In our marriage I took care of the kids day and nite, my husband wanted to continue living a bit of the single life after marriage...Playing ball, darts, bowling...I didn't stop him, I trusted him. Looking back it was so wrong how much he was gone and I was home with the kids, and he agrees how selfish he was All those years too.. So we were married in1998, and DDay was 5-20-05, 4 days before my sons 4th bday. You can read my Bio, but my husband had a ONS, put himself somewhere he never should've been while again I was at home trying to make this perfect life for my kids..

I think about how my husband cried and begged me to forgive him. My husband also came from a divorced family, a mother who left him, I didn't want to see him not grow up without his kids..he loves them so much...I stayed, My kids were only 2&4 at the time..they are now 13&16.. I wish EVERY SINGLE DAY I would've left.Back then, We just kept busy raising kids, It wasn't that the trust didn't come back, it did, it was that I feel I deserved more! I lost my respect for myself over the years and my feelings just left...as the kids get older they are NOT dumb..they pick up on stuff..iWe don't fight in front of them, we bicker a little..Again nothing big. My son who's gonna be 17 asks me all the time"Mom, what did u ever see in Dad?" Because my husband can be very reserved, a bit boring..I loved him for his heart. For sure NOT his sense of humor. I'm the more fun one, laughing with and talking to the kids..he's more of the caretaker, provider, actually parenting would be way easier alone, as they only talk to me about "Life" and I'm the one who's there for them...He loves them with all his heart, but I think his mom leaving at age 12, never wanting to see him had an effect on him too...One he doesn't admit..

Anyways- I STAYED FOR MY KIDS. My heart is colder, he tries everyday to makeup for what he did. He can't...

We've just never been the same since DDAY, we've tried... I also miss so much who he was prior to the DDAY too. He tries so hard to make up for his ONS, Too please me, it's as if he's not even himself anymore. I want the person back that I married, not the one who sucks up to me every single day..Yep I could divorce. My son will be a senior next year. Right now I work for my father running a few properties he owns. My father wants my husband and I too take over and buy some of these properties at a great deal and I keep stalling my Dad as I just don't know if I can see my self with my husband the rest of my life?? I Can't, but it's scary to say out loud!!

I apologize if I'm rambling, I just want you to know that I wanted something so different for my kids too..something So Much Better, but in fact Staying together Made us more miserable as years went on, and the kids see it....He tries So Hard to make it better, and sometimes you just can't. People say WOW 12 years later and you STILL think about it?? Not everyday, But it changed who we were, how we acted... I just wanted to give you my feedback from someone who's 12 years down the road, and stayed For the kids..Don't stay for the kids, Stay for YOU and know you can move one...orGo and BE happy!! I wish I could tell my younger self that..Hang in there

Thank you for the story, I appreciate your experience.

What we wanted for ourselves, a strong and ideal family life, was not meant to be. It seems like such a loss at this early stage for me. It sounds like the long term affects on you are very significant. You don't really feel happy, perhaps cheated out of something better. I know a sorry from a stranger doesn't mean a lot, but I am sorry. You do deserve better. Nobody deserves to be robbed of their dreams and forced to settle for a faded copy of what they once had. It sounds like you have some freedom now.

Good luck.

Swatter, I think you've gotten some good advice here. My WH lied and lied and tt'd after dday (didn't want to hurt me. so sweet. )

He's really remorseful now. But I'll tell you that even though he said the right stuff and cried a lot, it was really 6 months before he truly pulled his head out of his ass and began to own it all. He also went through IC.

So don't be discouraged if she doesn't seem to really grasp it all yet. Mine's doing great now. Problem is, I feel the same as you. I don't know if I want this to be my life. We love each other, but I don't know if it will ever erase that memory of him watching me fall apart and continuing to lie to my face. I'm waiting in the hopes that time works some kind of magic and I get better and gain respect and love for him again. But honestly, I don't know.

This is a tough road. Hard to navigate alone.

I was in counsrling with a great guy at DDay1. Helped me keep my sanity through it all.

At DDay2 I was done with my CH. Told him to leave.

My counselor was and still is a part of my life. He sees my kids for some issues and has helped tremendously.

Find one who is a good fit. It may not be the first or second one but there is someone out there for you.

And he helped us R and get to a good place in our M. It can happen - trust me. But your W needs to commit to doing the work

Thank you for the story, I appreciate your experience.

What we wanted for ourselves, a strong and ideal family life, was not meant to be. It seems like such a loss at this early stage for me. It sounds like the long term affects on you are very significant. You don't really feel happy, perhaps cheated out of something better. I know a sorry from a stranger doesn't mean a lot, but I am sorry. You do deserve better. Nobody deserves to be robbed of their dreams and forced to settle for a faded copy of what they once had. It sounds like you have some freedom now.

Good luck

ThankYou- What I forgot to add, is that I B4 DDay i thought I was so happy, I couldn't believe he actually did it to me, because we were so in love, sex was great...Life, work, everything was great! He was just as shocked it heppened too, It took me 12 years to realize everything I wrote down to you. Those kind of realizations didn't come over nite. I had the same feeelings like you- In shock, Couldn't believe I was on these boards.Also there have been Many bumps in the road In the past 12 years..I was diagnosed with Stage 4 Lymphoma about 9 years ago and he couldn't of been more supportive, I battled for almost 2 years, he stood by my side when others left, It was a Tough road! But, he was always there on my darkest days..That should've been enough for me...but it wasn't... I'm just tellling you we were soo In love too, but after Many years of staying together-All the things I wrote above is everything I realized along the way...

Good Luck to you too