SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Cheaters lie a lot but you want to believe because the truth is too hard to take.

If they have contact they have sex.

Always

WTFOVER, I'm so sorry you are here.

You stressed that your story isn't as bad as others. How so?

When you're betrayed like you were and maybe still are, it hurts like hell!

What are you doing to take care of yourself?

Do you have someone to talk to? Do you have a healthy release such as exercise?

If your suffering from anxiety, depression, sleep loss, see your Dr. He/she can provide help for that. It's not shameful to need help for this kind of stuff. Like I said, this is hell on earth.

Stay away from alcohol. It's a depressant and you need a clear head to handle this stuff. Someone has to be responsible for you and your 3 children.

Be prepared for more information as time goes by.

Very rarely do we get the full truth on DDay 1.

Your story is very similar to almost every one of us here. Not so much in the details, but the actions of a wayward spouse. They are all the same. They follow the cheaters handbook.

Good luck and keep posting.

[This message edited by Wool94 at 2:39 AM, November 4th (Saturday)]

Oops, I guess I liked my post so much, I submitted it twice....

[This message edited by Wool94 at 2:38 AM, November 4th (Saturday)]

sorry double post

[This message edited by Smillie at 3:43 AM, November 4th (Saturday)]

So your gut is telling you that these two have been hooking up sexually throughout your engagement and marriage. It certainly looks that way.

Your wife obviously feels she and this other guy have a higher status than you and that you are lucky to have her.

This is a really unhealthy place for you to be. Your wife and this other man have reduced your stautus to that of an underling or weaker male.

I would advise you to get out of this infidelity situation as quickly as possible and work to regain your pride and self respect.

Your wifes view of you must be so entrenched right now that she cannot possible respect a man who cannot even have control over his own wife (there is some irony here because her own actions have instigated this low opinion of you).

Personally, I would try and get as much evidence as you can in James Bond mode then do as much damage as you can before you are discovered. This will be a healthy move for you because it will give you back feeling of power and control (a feeling you are sadly missing just now).

Any attempts to reason with your wife will result in you being pushed further down and will elevate her and the other guys status even higher. They are looking down upon you and undoubtedly will collaborate against you sharing every little thing with each other to help them maintain control over you.

All you can do right now is challenge their view of you by demonstating that you are not a weak man.

[This message edited by Smillie at 4:53 AM, November 4th (Saturday)]

I think the best way of investigating quietly is to "imagine you are invisible". You practically are anyway at the moment so it shouldn't be difficult to pull off. You should only become visible when you strike. When you strike it should be with the most powerful blow you can manage (figuratively) so you should wait until you are ready, because it is much much much more effective to deliver a fatal blow than to just slap and scratch away repeatedly (again figuratively speaking). Any actual physical violence or temper tantrums will weaken your position further.

[This message edited by Smillie at 4:01 AM, November 4th (Saturday)]

I would like to thank all of you for your input so far. I truly feel relief and support when I read your words of encouragement and advice. Not much to update but here are a few important facts/thoughts that may help people give solid input.

My wife did not work with this guy since shortly after we got married in 2007. OM has always lived several states away. Wife insists that the affair ended 6 months prior to our marriage (during engagement) and swears on a Bible that there has been no sexual contact since then. They were in the same industry and that is how she justified the “limited” communication during 2009 – 2013. The fact that the communication was steady during a period of 3+ years (that I have records for) is very concerning. She still doesn’t know that I have call logs from 2009 – 2012. She called him several times a month but he didn’t answer much or call back. She quit working to stay at home with kids in 2014. I believe the last time they saw each other was 2012 (group dinner when he was in town) but I could be wrong.

A disturbing aspect is that she partially blames me for her affair during engagement, and won’t take full responsibility. I’ll admit, I didn’t do a good job of making her feel special. I wish I could change that … but it does not justify betrayal of that or any magnitude.

As far as paternity, I’m 99.9% sure I’m the father of my kids. I have a DNA test kit and will have results soon.

OM got divorced around 2013. I can confirm that he has had other affairs. Telling his ex-wife at this point is pointless other than the fact that she may be able to provide me with some info.

I could be wildly wrong on this, but my hunch is that for some reason my wife wanted to maintain contact and communicate because he made her “feel good.” She has always been friends with guys and exes … and I have never been the jealous type. Lesson learned – no one can be trusted.

One big lever that I have to pull to get the truth is shame. She would be humiliated if family, friends and ex-colleagues found out and devastated if I filed for separation or divorce. My plan is to tell her that I know there is more to the story and that I have proof … that she has one chance to be 100% honest and truthful if she wants to ever be trusted and to save our relationship. If she doesn’t come clean, than I have tough decision to make. At that point, I will ask her to sign a separation agreement if we are to stay together and try to make it work. Getting this signed would protect me from losing my kids, alimony and financial destruction. I think she will sign it to save our marraige if she believes that I will leave … and I will if she doesn’t tell me the truth and sign it. Without a separation agreement, separation or divorce would mean she gets custody and I am saddled with massive child support payments and alimony.

I do love my wife and hope we can make this work. Strangely enough, our relationship is as good as it has ever been. I know she loves me and desperately wants to stay married … which is maybe why she is still not disclosing the truth. She is truly happy with her life … kids and being married to me. However, what she did … and knowing that she at the very least tried to maintain a friendly relationship with OM during our marriage and has not been honest about it is eating me alive. I feel like if she felt remorse about the affair, she would have avoided all future contact out of respect and guilt. Through this and several other recent situations, my ability to trust anyone has been shattered. I’m not sure how I can ever regain that … even if I finally get the truth, transparency and true remorse.

If all of you have any input or ideas based on the above information and thoughts, I would love to hear it. A few questions for all of you:

- Am I a fool to believe that no sexual activity happened during our marriage?

- How can I get her to tell the truth?

- Sounds like a poly is probably in order. Anyone have experience with these? Are they reliable?

- I am planning on meeting with OM at some point in the next month or two to hear his side. Good idea or bad?

- What terms would you include in the separation agreement. (It would only be triggered if we separate or divorce in the future)

- I am considering going to her former company and asking for phone records and emails. They are reasonable people and may provide it if I approach it correctly. Thoughts?

Thanks again to all of you. You are my only outlet and it feels great to open up and get support and advice. This is a pretty lonely place to be and I haven't shared my situation with anyone close to me.

I feel like if she felt remorse about the affair, she would have avoided all future contact out of respect and guilt.

Absolutely.

Am I a fool to believe that no sexual activity happened during our marriage?

No. Your not. Its possible she was getting something emotional out of it. But you would be a fool not to find out for sure.

- Sounds like a poly is probably in order. Anyone have experience with these? Are they reliable?

Google polygraph in your area. Call a few outfits. Find someone with previous law enforcement background. But it's really about her and her reaction to your demand that she take it. Even if she agrees with enthuasism, realize that parking lot confessions are a real possibility.

Example....another BH on this site......wife swore she told him everything, swore she never saw the OM again, he demanded a poly. Realizing the gig was up, she admitted to meeting with the OM a week after D-Day. The kicker was, the affiar was 5 years earlier. She held onto that one for 5 years and the only reason he found out was the poly demand.

Keep posting. There is more collective experience on this site than anywhere else.

"Am I a fool to believe that no sexual activity happened during our marriage?"

I am really, really, really sorry to say that everything your wife tells you will have to be backed up with evidence. There is absolutely no avoiding this bz it will make you crazy. If you can't verify her story using other sources you will have to book a polygraph and be prepared to go through with it. The whole truth will usually tumble out before she sits the test....but you should make her sit it anyway.

Cheaters lie and information from them is not credible and usually (always) edited to protect each other.

I know she loves me and desperately wants to stay married … which is maybe why she is still not disclosing the truth. She is truly happy with her life …

Then you will never have a R with that mentality, that is rugsweeping. Sooner or later it will come out and you will have to face it, TT will bring you back to square one, every now and then you will something new,tc. Try to address it now and fix that problem so you two can have a stronger M. You need a strong foundation, with secrets it will not help you.

- Am I a fool to believe that no sexual activity happened during our marriage?

No, you aren't a fool. However, considering her willingness to have continuous contact with him, it is quite likely that there were other sexual encounters. Question "Was there any extramarital sex?" should be included in the poly.

- How can I get her to tell the truth?

Hm. You have to understand that you cannot get her to do anything. She must come to the conclusion that truth is the only way forward herself. The only way she is going to come to this conclusion is only if she becomes truly remorseful. To become truly remorseful she must face consequences of her actions, realize devastation she caused. Serving D papers usually is a good wake up blow to them.

According to what you wrote, she's far from remorseful.

- Sounds like a poly is probably in order. Anyone have experience with these? Are they reliable?

No experience here, but from what I've read, the most effective part is "parking lot confessions" - lying cheater enthusiastically agrees to the poly hoping that you, seeing his/her eagerness, will cancel the poly, then, when you still proceed and arrive at poly's office parking lot, WS realizes that he/she might get busted during poly, decides to tell you some additional "truth", swearing that now you have it all and hoping that you can still cancel the appointment. The main thing is to still go trough with it.

- I am planning on meeting with OM at some point in the next month or two to hear his side. Good idea or bad?

Bad. Cheaters lie. Does your WW knows about your plans? If yes, you can be sure she provided OM with the outline of what she told you. You might still want to contact xOBS, it is possible she knows more about their relationship.

- I am considering going to her former company and asking for phone records and emails. They are reasonable people and may provide it if I approach it correctly. Thoughts?

I highly doubt that.

I know she loves me

Lying for 10 years is inconsistent with this statement. This, however, doesn't mean that she might not be able to truly love you in the future.

On top of all the great advice you have been getting, don't believe a word she says. She has been lying by omission to you for the last 10yrs. That's a long time.

Don't even thing of believe her when she says she swears on the bible/children's lives/graves of (grand)parents, as all that is fluff (what's going to happen if they are actually lying? Does the bible burn, do the kids keel over, do the dead rise and are cursed to walk forever? ).

A disturbing aspect is that she partially blames me for her affair during engagement,

This is a bad sign. Blame shifting. Do not accept any of that. I get more than a little pissed at this particular WS tactic.

Of course it's partially your fault. Because you were not perfect during the engagement you, in a way, forced her to suck/screw another man. While at the same time having sex with you. And then it is by extension partially your fault that she married you under false pretenses. What else was she supposed to do?

Tha sounds way better than the truth. Which is more likely that she just wanted to have sex with him. It felt good and she liked it. And she is selfish and just wanted to have her fun. She wanted the best of both worlds. A stable man at home to provide and give her children. And a fling on the side to remember fondly while taking a bath.

Now she is pissed that she let it slip. (BTW what was that argument about that she brought it up?) That you are aware of her secret life. That there might be actual consequences for what she did. But she still has hope. She does not know you have the phone records. So she thinks her lie about calling him twice a year for business is holding up. Except that at twice a year 175+ calls is 87 years worth of phone calls. But never mind that. Oh, and the fact that she has had meals with him despite the deep shame and guilt she felt for cheating.

You are doing the right thing. Get advice. Make a plan. Leverging the shame angle may work. Use that to get a post nup. Then spring the poly. Do not give her any warning.

I disagree about leveraging blame. It is a negotiation and the result of negotiation is additional trickle truth.

Exposure blows up their world. It destroys their fantasy that they can continue this charade. It’s also a great gauge of judging their level of remorse.

By exposure I mean parents and close family. The point is to expose and get people on your side, not to embarrass her

You also need to talk to xOBS. You will get info from her . Just tell her that your wife has admitted to an affair with her husband and you’re just trying to put together the pieces. The second most important part of this is that the ex will probably let your wife’s boyfriend know, and at that point he’ll probably contact your wife. As long as you don’t tell your wife that you are doing this then this is a great way to confirm that true No Contact is not in place.

Of course before doing this you need to make sure she understands that No Contact means blocking him everywhere and not to talk to him for an instant if she hears his voice.

Also under any circumstance do not let her know you are calling xOBS

There may have been communication over work phones. Check her phone for cheater apps.

Agree 100% with poly suggestion. You already know she hasn’t come clean, you just don’t know how deep the rabbit hole goes.

swears on a Bible that there has been no sexual contact since then.

One thing we've all learned here is that this means absolutely nothing. We've had many Waywards swear on a bible, swear on their children's lives, swear on their parent's lives, etc......only to discover they were absolutely lying.

Did a layer tell you that you would wind up losing custody and paying our thenose for child support and alimony? Make sure you're not just assuming the worst. Considering this started before you were married, you might have the legal option for annulment which could significantly change things.

Yes, definitely have a lawyer consult or three, just so you know your rights and what you would be facing.

WTFOVER, how are you today?

To answer some of your questions:

- I do not believe she has had contact with him in about 4 years … since she quit her job.

- We have three kids ages 10 and under.

- Our “argument” when she revealed the initial affair was regarding a post nup. I was tired of hearing her threaten divorce when she got angry. She has the ability to make 150k plus in her job but wants to stay at home with the kids. I have supported this but it puts me in a horrible position if we ever did separate or divorce as she would get custody and I would pay dearly. During that discussion, she was going to call “someone” to get their advice on “what this meant” … it was him.

- I have records of continuous and steady phone/email/text contact from 2009 – 2012, mostly her calling him. This does not mean a physical affair but does indicate tremendous disrespect and lack of remorse for the affair during our engagement. Anything is possible but he lives 1000 miles away and they only saw each other 4 times that I know of at conferences.

- I have no phone records of 2013 – 2015 but she did call him twice in 2016 but he didn’t answer.

- I have this guy beat in every way. Seriously.

I saw a lawyer today to draft a separation agreement/post nup. Solid guy that knows me. He encouraged me to get the truth and be sure that this is what I want to do before presenting it as it could “destroy the marriage.” Told him I didn’t do that, she did.

My main questions are: Why did she keep calling him during our marriage? (He did not answer most of the time and rarely called her back) Was there any physical affair during marriage?

My plan is to tell her that I know there is more than what she has disclosed, but not disclose what I know. She has 7 days to write it all out and be 100% transparent. If I don’t get the truth that includes the communication that I am aware of and reason why, there is no chance for R. If she tells the truth about communication and is 100% honest and remorseful, then I present separation agreement/postnup – if she signs it, we try to make it work.

I truly want to stay married and make this work but cannot do that with someone that lies to me. If she doesn’t reveal the truth, I will never know what actually happened … and I can’t forgive what I don’t know about.

The crazy thing is that our relationship is as good as it has ever been. We get along great, sex is great and enjoy being together. But, she doesn’t know that I have proof of her lies yet. It is eating me alive.

Any advice on how to proceed through this???