SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi Alexis Just wanted to ditto all that lizziej has said. So yes, please, please do not feel that you owe any of us here on SI an apology, or explanation or anything at all. We all owe you support and kindness and understanding.

And yes, please join us at the Emotionless Infidelity (EI) group in the I Can Relate Forum. We are all dealing with situations where our partners/spouses used prostitutes or porn or Craig's List hookups, etc. In other words situations of betrayal where they didn't feel emotional involvement. We are basically just a support group; non judgmental and just trying to help each other deal with the trauma and everyday living through the struggle. I think you'll find it a comfortable place to share.

Thank you all again for your replies.

I called to make an intake appointment yesterday for marriage counseling and am just waiting on them to call me back. The voice message said they call back within 1 to 2 business days. So hopefully today or tomorrow I’ll hear back so I can get the ball rolling on that.

Today I started wondering if there is ANY possible way the things I’ve found out or seen with my own eyes could’ve been anything else.... like in other words is it possible he accidentally called the wrong #’s or texts the wrong #’s and is there a way to explain all the other stuff Too? Like maybe I’m just nuts and blowing this out of proportion and he hasn’t been cheating with escorts? Uhg. I know that’s probably not the case. Too many calls & texts not to mention everything else that I have discovered a long the way. I really wish I could get my hands on the bank account he has that he said is old and see the history on it. The bank won’t give me access without him being there. Does anyone know how I could access it? The problem is I suspect if he has this account it’s under his mom’s address or a friends and he must get paperless statements but I have NO CLUE what email address he’s used or the email passwords so I can’t search the email or try to login to the online banking. I have to go down there and close a couple old accounts out but I’m dying to get my hands on that supposed old one too. Or at least see the statements.

I feel like I’m torturing myself. I check the phone bill daily but that’s pointless because I’m pretty sure after I found out in June and dropped those HUGE hints about knowing he obviously figured out it was by the phone bill because short of Once in November his bill hasn’t had a single call or text to escorts. Or at least I didn’t catch any. I feel like I need to prepare evidence so when I’m ready I can show it if I need to while in therapy. I think for me personally I need to have a marriage counselor present to help guide me through this. But I am scared as hell.

What if he is a sex addict?? Addiction runs in his family from gambling to drinking to drugs. He’s never had any of those problems or anything but what if he is addicted to sex. Although I’d think we’d be having it more if that were the case. But what do I know?

I thought I was feeling ok today but I guess I’m not. I have not even been able to motivate to do anything today after I got my kids to school. I’m not even out of my pajamas. I feel like such a loser sometimes. I wanted to go have lunch with him on his break but since I have yet to do anything else I can’t. It’s a 40 min drive there & back.

Well I’m just rambling. I wish I could afford a private investigator but I suspect it would take them a good 2 solid weeks of following him around to get actual photos of anything. I just wish I knew of other resources since the phone bill doesn’t have anything on it anymore. At first a few months back I though he stopped because the bill was clean but within a few weeks after finding out & dropping those huge hints the behavior started again, coming home late, $ withdrawals on the same nights he was “working late” and so on. It just doesn’t happen as often anymore. But if he has a New bank account then I wouldn’t see that stuff either. I saw he called that bank a week ago too but oddly he brought it up and said they called him about closing our old accounts out. But like I said the phone bill clearly showed he called them twice actually. So I’m curious as to what he’s hiding. Or I could be TOTALLY WRONG about it and it could be an old account.

I hate this. I wish I could turn my brain off sometimes.

Well thank you for listening.

~ Alexis

Search for a burner phone.

His vehicle, his closet, a gym bag, anywhere he might be able to hide it.

Please don't "HINT" you might know, it will just give him the opportunity to go further underground.

It’s already too late for not hinting anything because I have done A LOT of hinting since June. Big hints. Little hints. All kinds of hints.

Oddly enough I guess I can stop stressing over the extra secret bank account I thought he had. I’m physically at the bank now closing out a couple old accounts and played stupid and the lady told me there were absolutely no other accounts in his name alone. Only the ones with both our names on it. UNLESS the bank is lying to me. 😳😬. I wonder if they would? Uhg. Torturing myself again....

Then just before I walked into the bank the marriage counseling place called and they don’t take our insurance and it would cost $280 a session every week which is way out of our league. She gave me a couple other recommendations though so I’m calling them today. What a bummer. 😞

Hi Alexis-

Just want to tell you all you've been feeling doing is what I went through ~ the crazy-making looking for evidence the not feeling the strength or energy to do ANYTHING , the 'maybe I misinterpreted'. 'The feeling guilty because you feel like you are invading his privacy .

We've been there and we know how hard it is. Especially When you are trying to hide it from your spouse.

Do not put the blame on yourself, your spouse has created this horrible situation! Stay strong for your kids. Get dressed, drink water, eat properly, go for a walk or get exercise. You must look after you -this will be a long haul!

I think you are doing the right thing wanting to confront with a MC present but make sure it is someone skilled in infidelity and be prepared for him to lie. You should have a session with the councillor before hand to let them know what your plan is so they can be prepared.

Usually it isn't recommended to reveal your sources but he already knows you've used the phone bill and so go ahead and show him your evidence.

I also like the idea you had of writing him a letter. Perhaps you can write out what you want to say and then read it to him dUring your MC session.

As I said before you need more of a plan - not just confront and see how he reacts. Be prepared for denial & lies.

What do you want as an outcome of the confrontation?

I mean beyond the admit & apologize ?

If he admits only what you know is that good enough for you? How will you know he is telling the truth ? How can he show you from now on that he .is not being unfaithful ?

Whatare your expectations for him if he want S you to stay marriedto him ?

We know you don't want to divorce BUT please let him earn your marriage . Don't let him get away with " oops, mistake, sorry " then business as usual . There must be consequences for him or he won't stop!! There must be real work done by him before you two can reconcile and have a real marriage and the real intimacy you crave and deserve.

I am going to post below with a suggested list of what needs to happen before true reconciliat ton & recovery Can take place .

ALSO - Unless I missed it and you already havePlease Please get STD tested RIGHT AWAY !! He has had high risk sex partners and you are at great risk.

I know that this is humiliating & awful to do but you must!! your kids need you healthy !!

He needs to get tested ASAP as well and you need to see the report with your own eyes - remember he is a known liar. DO NOT HAVE UNPROTECTED SEX WITH HIM UNTIL YOU SEE IT and eventhen proceed with Caution as he maY still be sleeping with prostitutes.

HUGS, STRENGTH & GOOD THOUGHTS to you!

LizzieJ

@LizzieJ

Thank you kindly for your support and advice and even the questions you’ve asked me because those are questions I need to give more thought about. Originally all I wanted was him to admit what he’s done and sincerely apologize. He’s not one who EVER admits he’s wrong, at least I’ve never seen him do it, nor is he one to apologize for things. He’s never apologized to me about anything no matter how small or Big it may have been although we have never had anything big happen except this really in all our years together.

From your advice and questions and on the thoughts, suggestions and perspectives of the other members here I’ve slowly realized that I need to set some kind of boundaries and when I do feel ready to talk to him about this matter (hopefully in the safety of a good marriage therapist’s office) I can also express to him that although my goal is to work through this traumatic experience I’ve suffered and work on our marriage and re-bond & re-connect that he also needs to know I’m not a doormat nor am I weak. He will have to show me he’s willing to work on himself and our marriage. He has to also earn my trust back and help me cope with all the triggers I’ll experience such as, if he has to legitimately work late, I understand but that will be a trigger for me because I know that’s when he cheats. To this day, that’s when he cheats. Now don’t get me wrong I know he does work late too. It’s not always a lie. But sometimes it is and I can prove it by showing the phone bill, dates of days he claimed to be working late yet was calling & texting escorts and making ATM withdrawals 2-3 hours before he got home. There are other examples I can offer up as evidence but I’m too embarrassed to get into that stuff here. But once in therapy with him I don’t think I would confront him on the 1st session. I need to lead up to that because the fact that he’s even agreed to going for me is huge so I don’t want to drop an atom bomb on him on day 1 and possibly scare him from going back. I don’t know. I just need to eventually get it out and when I do I do need him to understand that there are now trust issues and ptsd from this that I will need him to help me through and show me with his actions he’s invested not only in saving our marriage but also stating faithful.

What I really struggle with is when he becomes defensive. I insoshut down and drop the subject. Sometimes that’s why I prefer writing because he can’t cut me off. He has to read through it. I do have one letter done although I started it in November- December and I keep editing it or adding to it. I’d actually like someone to share it with but I’m not sure I should post it here for All to read and I’d prefer to only show someone who’s been in s similar situation such as yourself LizzieJ .... I’m unable to send private messages here unless someone sends me one first. IF you’d be willing to take the time to read my letter and offer feedback I’d appreciate it.

As for blaming myself...... that’s a tough one. Deep down I KNOW IN MY HEART THIS IS NOT MY FAULT..... BUT I can’t seem to break through the surface and get past blaming myself for it quite often anyway. But I’m working on it.

Anyway I must go now. I have to get my workout in while my kids are doing their homework and then I have to cook dinner and so on. Hopefully I’ll sleep better tonight. I’m beat!

Thank you again....

Hi. Put an App on his phone to track him. There is Apps that you download on his phone and then the icon is deleted and there's no trace of you being there. Then you manage the app from your phone. Just remember that it takes a while setting up, so familiarize yourself with the setup before doing it, so you know exactly what to do. You can just google:'app for tracking a phone without them knowing it'.

You can try this link https://www.spyzie.com/mobile-tracker/track-a-cell-phone-without-them-knowing.html

My husband paid escorts. He maxed his credit card, applied for several loans and maxed them. Left us in HUGE financial debt. I've installed 2 apps on his phone to track him.

My hart goes out to you....

Hi. Put an App on his phone to track him. There is Apps that you download on his phone and then the icon is deleted and there's no trace of you being there. Then you manage the app from your phone. Just remember that it takes a while setting up, so familiarize yourself with the setup before doing it, so you know exactly what to do. You can just google:'app for tracking a phone without them knowing it'.

You can try this link https://www.spyzie.com/mobile-tracker/track-a-cell-phone-without-them-knowing.html

My husband paid escorts. He maxed his credit card, applied for several loans and maxed them. Left us in HUGE financial debt. I've installed 2 apps on his phone to track him.

My hart goes out to you....

Alexis Im totally surprised to see that the MC you contacted was charging $280 a session. Therapist fees are very high where I live but that kind of fee is normally charged only by psychiatrists. MCs are typically people with LCSW degrees and customary fees for those with experience are less than $200 a session. That too is very costly and out of bounds for most of us if they don't take insurance but I would think you could surely find a C that takes insurance or charges less than $280! I certainly hope so. If you cannot find such help in your area, you might also consider someone who works on line.

I think your idea of addressing your H's betrayal with a counselor is a very wise one though you might want to do telephone interviews with potential MCs first to see if they can help you in the way you have described. Not all MCs would be trained, experienced or able to help with confrontation and/or disclosure. It's always a good idea to have a few minutes of telephone interview conversation to get an idea of whether you'd want to work with that therapist. A first session is also a time to interview though most therapists will charge for that first interview session.

There are therapists who do specialist in betrayal and the trauma it causes but in those cases the betrayer has already admitted to at least some of the betrayal activity and there is a very prescribed process for further disclosure. So basically it would be wise to make your situation clear and to ask them if they can be of help with your confrontation.

Glad you were able to get out and on with your day. You seem like a very strong person.

[This message edited by marji at 5:47 AM, January 26th (Friday)]

Good morning

Thank you for the advice on the spy phone app. I only ever took his phone Once back in June to look and sure enough all the #’s on the phone bill were deleted off his phone as were the texts. But I was a nervous wreck when I took his phone because it’s on the nightstand next to his side of the bed charging at night and sometimes he wakes up easily. Other times he sleeps like a rock but I never know and would just die if he caught me. I will look into it though because I’m curious if I can learn it well enough to do it quickly. I have a back up spare phone I can practice on I guess but the only problem there is one of us is an iPhone user and one of us is an android user so idk how different it may be installing it on a phone I’m not familiar with using. At least I know his pass code but he doesn’t try to hide it on me when he enters it. So he obviously must delete stuff before he comes home or whatever. I’m glad he doesn’t have a credit card. Only I do.

As for therapy expenses the place I called gave me some recommendations so I’m trying them. I know one takes my insurance so fingers crossed 🤞🏻 I need this to happen.

Hey Alexis,

I almost never post on JFO because my DDay was 3 years ago and I sometimes feel like I don’t have anything to offer. But your post spoke to me for a few reasons.

One thing I noticed is how often you say “I’m sorry” when really, you owe no one an apology. I suspect with how often you use those words here, you probably use them even more in real life. You’ve mentioned your WH never apologizes, and there you are apologizing all over yourself, when most of the time it’s not even warranted. I see a dynamic I recognize in you because I WAS you when I was married. I see so much of my ex in your descriptions of your WH, and it breaks my heart because I feel like I know how you feel.

This is a story I’ve never shared with ANYONE, not even here, but I want to share it now. DDay for me was a Monday morning when I saw a text and confronted. My ex immediately admitted the truth (unlike many WHs) BUT the manner in which he did it was so cruel and unfeeling. We took the kids to school and then came home, both calling out of work. I remember sitting down across from him and asking him to explain. Our kids had this easel that had a chalkboard on one side, and he PULLED OUT CHALK and made a list on the board of all the things ‘wrong’ with me that ‘made him’ unhappy. No shit. I had found out an hour before that my husband was sleeping with someone half our ages and his response was to make a list on my KIDS’ chalkboard of all my supposed failings. And then, while I cried uncontrollably, he went upstairs and took a NAP. And yet, I called a counselor to set up MC and set to work on trying to R. I dyed my hair. I joined a gym. I tried to ‘fix’ everything ‘wrong’ with me. And over the next 8 months, I cried alone, I struggled for how to open dialogue with him, I let him control the narrative.

Have I mentioned I am a highly respected professional with two college degrees and two kids (then 5 and 7) who I am madly in love with and who are amazing and wonderful human beings? On paper and to those who know me in person, I am anything BUT a wilting flower who would let someone mistreat me. And yet I was SO broken by years of him not giving me love the way I needed and then his affair and subsequent treatment of me, that with him I was this sad, desperate woman who just wanted to be loved.

So when I say I see your WH and you in my ex and me, I really do. And I just want to tell you that you CAN and will get better and stronger. You’ll find your way and get your strength and find your voice. You’ll get some tough love here, but please remember we have ALL been, in some way, where you are now. Our exact stories may be different, but we have some commonalities and most of all we all want to see other betrayed spouses survive this season of their life and find happiness out of infidelity.

@ADryHeat

First let me thank you for your post. I truly appreciate your kindness and for sharing your story with me and some of the private things you’ve never shared here before. I’m so sorry you went through all of that and I cried reading about the chalkboard thing. That’s so awful 😢 it just broke my heart to ready that.

Also before I continue I wanted to let you know I did reply to your post the same day you left it. It was a pretty long reply. I’m not sure how it didn’t end up posting. Very strange. I don’t have a ton of time right now to get into everything I did in my original post but here goes....

You are absolutely correct I do apologize all of the time. It’s a habit I have. This is something I’ve been doing for years. Well before I even met my husband. I’m a people pleaser. I recognize this and I think when I feel I’ve been a bother or I’m maybe annoying, for example on here, I’ve apologized numerous times to whoever reads it for always sounding like a broken record. I feel like it annoys people sometimes. Especially when I’m not taking the advice offered really and confronting my husband. But right now, I’m just not there yet. I’m not ready. I want to get into counseling first with him where we can have a therapist present when I bring this up. I think that for me, it’s the best route I can take. But anyway I’m off topic, you’re 110% correct about me apologizing constantly. It’s something I really need to work on. I have to stop doing it. I should not have to apologize for something when I did nothing wrong. Bottom line.

I, like you, have been bending over backwards trying to fix everything I think is wrong with me. I’ve gone to such extremes... some are so extreme that I won’t even say them here. Then of course there’s trying to lose weight (but I want to do that anyway) and to other things like non invasive procedures such as lip injections, Botox, fillers & so on. I also have found that since June when I discovered this my obsession with makeup went to a crazy level. I keep buying more & more & more in hopes that something will make me look prettier and maybe I’ll be noticed. He does however tell me I don’t need makeup but in my mind I feel like I must. Idk I just try so hard to make him happy. I’ve changed so many things trying to do so. I think everyone here says I’m doing something called the “pick me dance” or something like that and since I’ve had more time to reflect on some of the replies here I think they’re correct and that is what I do.

As for finding my voice again.... that’s all I want. I feel by not bluntly speaking up to him and only having the courage to drop hints (from BIG hints to SMALL hints) I’m only enabling his behavior. I believe in my heart that he must know I’m on to him or that I know but he’s certainly not going to admit it based on my hints nor did he admit any wrong doing when I confronted him after he took my car and was 2.5 hours late coming home from work then the next morning I found my passenger seat was pushed ALL the way back and reclined ALL the way down. He tried to say a water bottle rolled under my seat and he was just getting it yet funny thing is a water bottle can’t even fit under the seat AND he moved the things I had on the floor in front of that seat and put them in the back. But when I confronted him and told him it bothered me it was brushed off and I shut down of course. So that was the end of that. But I’m working on it. I’m going to find my voice again. Eventually.

Anyway I must go for now, but thank you so much and I do hope I hear from you again. I really appreciate your message and kindness.

Thank you

Last night I just wanted my husband to show interest and emotion. After putting the kids to bed I laid in bed and put my head on his chest and he had his arm around me. We laid there in total silence. Not one word was spoken. I tried to get him interested but basically I go no reaction from him at all. Long story short I ended up leaving the room and sitting in my garage for 2 hours crying then I slept on the couch. I felt so alone last night. I just wanted so badly for him to want me and show me emotion. I miss that so much. Why is this happening? I wish I could understand. I wish I could fix it but I know I can’t fix it alone. I want so badly to feel loved and special again. Maybe this is payback for me not giving him the same attention he once expressed to me years ago he felt I was neglecting to give him. I feel guilty for having made him feel this way. It’s awful. I never cheated though. Not once. But I still feel like I pushed him to cheat because I wasn’t paying him the attention he needed. I am just all over the place lately. I hate this. I hate that I’m going through this. I hate that I feel like it’s my fault.

Anyway thank you for listening to me vent. Sorry I’m all over the place.

Alexis, I'm sorry you are hurting, but STOP IT right now. No one pushed him to cheat, that's all on him.

He's getting sex from prostitutes, and he has the comforts of going home.

Alexis, my WH traveled a great deal, was involved in a sport that he participated in since childhood, I was very neglected and felt abandoned with three children at home doing everything myself. Basically a single mom.

I didn't cheat. My WH did. I will NEVER accept blame for his destructive behavior. Ever. Was I the perfect wife? Not at all. I was tired a great deal of the time from getting little support from him as he was gone so often, no family members around to give me some relief, I felt abandoned, and I didn't cheat. Never even thought about it.

[This message edited by annb at 8:09 AM, January 29th (Monday)]

I just don’t know how to stop hurting. I wish I had an on & off switch. I struggle with this everyday. This pain is just unbearable sometimes. Even more so when I’m desperately in need of feeling wanted and loved. I just wish he wanted me. I wish I was enough.

Again the messed up part is DEEP DOWN I know it’s not my fault but I can’t get past feeling like it is on the surface. I keep going back to a conversation we had a few years ago when he told me flat out things needed to change with our sex life because he felt I didn’t want him or wasn’t attracted to him anymore because he always had to initiate sex. I wish I really realized then how bad it was. At the time our children were younger and I was a stay at home mom caring for 2 little ones, and taking care of the house and meals and laundry and appointment and so on. I was tired. I was also feeling depressed myself at the time. So looking back, I should have really taken what he was saying more to heart. I probably could’ve prevented this if I had. I think anyway....

Sorry, you misread me, I meant stop blaming yourself.

Alexis...

It's hard to read your posts. You need to learn to love yourself, to be enough for yourself. You were a sufficient person before you met this man and you can be a sufficient person after his affair.

You are good enough. Stop apologizing. Stop blaming yourself. Your marriage may or may not make it but staying with someone who is not remorseful and continues to cheat is soul crushing. Don't you want that to stop more than you want to continue as you are? You stay, hoping he will change, but with no reason to think he will.

How long to you want to go on like this? Are you willing to be in this same place in 5 or 10 or 25 years?

What are you teaching your children about marriage?

I'm so sorry for your pain but I think it's so painful because you are stuck with an active cheater. Please take steps to get out of this situation.

I understand or rather I have come to understand that some people here do find it difficult to read my posts because it doesn’t seem I’m doing enough to make the necessary changes needed to make things better.

I’ve also come to realize that some people are not sure if they should reply at all because I’m extremely sensitive and nearly left this site days into joining because I felt I was being attacked but in reality the person was only trying to offer their own form of tough love advice which I now understand.

So, please know I am doing everything I can to figure this out, just at my own pace. I know how low I feel and I know I deserve to not be cheated on. Right now what I’m comfortable with doing is to find us a marriage counselor and go from there. If I say something prior to that than so be it. I’ll get there in due time.

I also know by doing the pick me stuff I’m not really helping myself but at the moment im just kinda stuck in that cycle. I miss him. I miss feeling safe, secure, loved, and I miss him also being my BFF as well. It’s really hard for me to accept this is where our reality currently. I want it fixed. I can’t help that.

I am trying to remind myself that I am worth more than this and that I need to love myself. I’m trying to build self esteem again although it doesn’t sound that way because I don’t talk much about some of the other positive steps I’m taking such as working with a life coach and a fitness coach. I have to do X amount of time daily on personal development and check in with her Once I’ve done it. I’m trying to get myself back to feeling whole again.

Also, please know everyone’s advice is getting into my brain. I guess you can say it’s like everyone is planting seeds and eventually they’ll bloom when I’m ready for that. Idk why I’m struggling so hard with this or with saying something to him. I did text him today to say we needed to talk tonight. No reply though. But that’s normal, he’s at work and rarely responds to my texts anyway. Idk if I’ll make it to confronting him because idk if I’m ready. But I can certainly discuss how I’m feeling (alone, not special, and so on)... it’s something and it’s more practice for me to build up to the bigger conversation we must have.

Anyway I do appreciate your reply and believe me I do reread the comments/replies I have received here numerous times sometimes. I’m just a slow bloomer I guess when it comes to all of this stuff. It’s taking a huge toll on me. I’m working on what I can control at the moment though with my therapist and my life & fitness coaches. Plus I’m here which believe me, took a lot for me, as I’m sure it did for everyone because who the heck wanted to end up here anyway? No one should ever go through this hell. No one!

Anyway thank you again. I appreciate everyone’s time and thoughts. I am grateful to all of you and for this community.

~ Alexis ~

Virtual hugs Alexis. ((((Alexis))))

Sudra

Thank you 😊 I sure need them...

🤗 Hugs right back 🤗

[This message edited by Alexis13 at 7:56 PM, January 29th (Monday)]