SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Wow- the posts from BH have been really eye opening. It makes me more resolved to really open myself up sexually to my husband.

Fenderguy- I read your first posts about sex and I'm sad to read your updates. I'm wondering if you've just flat out asked her WTF? She promised you amazing sex so where is it? I know some H make it a condition of reconciliation. In my situation our renewed/healthier sex life has been instrumental in healing. You have to speak up!! Don't emotionally detach.

pinkpggy, thanks for the words. I've read through some of your posts, and have much respect. You are another person I wish my WW could be more like. That's another point... I thought my wife was doing really well with being remorseful, putting in the work, etc. Then I start reading threads like yours and Mrs. Walloped, and find myself envious of your husbands for having wives that are putting in the effort like you are.

The problem is that I've changed so much in the last year, mostly for the better. I look better, feel better. I know I could attract another woman who is willing to have mutually satisfying sex. I'm not bad at sex or anything. I don't have ED or PE problems. I was able to satisfy my wife sexually before the kids, as well as my other partners before her. I no longer feel like I have to put up with this. To go through what I went through and still get duty sex... hell no!

I will talk about it with her, but not tonight. No need to ruin a perfectly good date night, complete with babysitters and everything.

The whole thing is just a vicious cycle and I see it with my husband, I feel like I need to be "on" as a wife 24/7 because he is hurting and my actions either positive or negative affect his mood and behavior.

Sex "before" my affair was like what so many BH on here expressed. It then just became an issue, me thinking he only wanted it for a release, and him thinking I was only doing it out of duty. So it became stale and unconnected.

After d-day and ALL of the emotional discussions, talks, pain, tears, I can see that we are more emotionally connected than before and that makes the sex more meaningful. It also makes me WANT to do everything and anything to show him how much I desire him. Yes I had"different" sex with my AP but it was shallow and meaningless, and there was no real love or connection there. We were just feeding our egos. I can't even stand to think about it now.

Fenderguy-I wonder if your wife just now thinks of herself in a certain way, like she can't be that person for you because it will trigger you into thinking about her having sex with someone else and acting that way. I wonder if she has a wall up out of fear of you getting hurt by it. Its something to discuss for sure. I had to talk to my husband after and let him know just to accept me for me now, I'm not the same 20 year old insecure sexual partner anymore. At first he was confused at my behavior but now he's just enjoying the ride.....pun intended.

Have fun on date night. Try not to detach!

[This message edited by pinkpggy at 8:21 AM, February 10th (Saturday)]

Why is it that (generalizing here massively) men focus on the sex? I know I do. It's the concrete for me. The affirmation that I'm special and the only one. It's fidelity, promise, safety and a resolute that no one else is more loved than myself by my partner. Yet my mind wanders and I find "ideas" and sexual scenarios extremely erotic. This raises guilt in me due to upbringing, fears and "moral decency".

These erotic thoughts and feelings further make the affair completely devastating. Men spend their entire day bombarded by sexually overt commercials, beautifully dressed women, and sexual overtones all over the media and everyday life. You bring all this sexual tension in your soul to the "safety" of a marriage to have a partner help explore and resolve your sexual fantasies.

To be shut down over so many years prior to the affair is a self-esteem killer in it's own fashion. To be denied the "special" feelings and the promise of a single sexual partner in a marriage brings up massive fears of trust and kills hope.

But to live and not know and be reassured daily of some of the sentiment that some WW have expressed here, makes it even more difficult.

I'm learning to express my desires and wants and it is extremely hard to read that some have made conditions for their R. I feel like I can't ask for anything otherwise I'm just being "demanding" or trying to "control" or "that doesn't really meet your needs, tell me what you really need"

I don't even know how to express myself physically or what is "normal" or what is needed anymore. The affair has destroyed the safety, trust and specialness. The ONLY thing that could take it away for me is a constant reassurance that there is understanding and new behavior that SHOWS that understanding.

But isn't that being "Conditionally loving".

I get "what if we couldn't even have sex, what if you were paralyzed?" Takes me back to my original question. Why is sex such a main factor for me and for many of us men?

[This message edited by musicandwine at 8:28 AM, February 10th (Saturday)]

MusicandWine- First, I don't believe in "unconditional love" all love comes with conditions if we are being honest.

Second-sex is an instrumental part of a marriage, and now, especially if a marriage bond has been broken, I think men take that hit the hardest, the sex. Thinking of their wife offering up sex in whatever ways to another man, that is just a major ego blow, and even more so if your sex life was lack luster before hand.

For me, the sex with my AP was exciting and elicit, it made me feel desired and wanted (at the time). But the actual sex wasn't any good, he had erectile dysfunction and a small member and he didn't last long. Why the hell did I keep going back? His words made me feel good, he made me feel wanted and desired and like I was a goddess. Looking back my BH acted that way towards me at first too, but he loved me for 20 years, he never left my side and never strayed. Why were the words of a strange man more valuable to me than that? I am still working on that.

Lets say you "couldn't have sex" would you be satisfied with an emotional connection, kissing, caressing and really feeling the love from your partner, minus the act? Are you getting that now?

Sex isn't just about the act itself, its about the love, the bond, the touches, the kissing, the trust and safety you feel with your partner to be so intimate. Its the build up to all of it, it has to be there for good sex. Are you or your WW currently cultivating that in your relationship? This what "sex" now means to me, it's a part of our whole relationship and fostered through out it, not just in bed at night and not just an act out of duty on my part.

These are all things I am learning in this new world I've created after infidelity.

[This message edited by pinkpggy at 8:40 AM, February 10th (Saturday)]

Fenderguy,

Damn dude...

I'm sorry that my situation triggered you. Honestly, that wasn't my intention. I hope that you can figure a way out to get your needs met, and maybe facing them on here can help? I think we all come here with her own set of circumstances, and it seems even more hurtful when someone else experiences exactly what you did, or something similar enough to make you think that there's a pattern.

I think one of the hardest pills for me to swallow it's snowing that there was a difference between what her AP had and what I have are two very separate things. It's almost like they are two separate women in a lot of ways. She seemed so uninterested with me, yet with him, she was willing to "cheapen" herself in ways that I would never do. They would seek out classrooms in the campus at they both worked at that weren't in use. They found a use for him. She met him outside of hotels and they went at it in the van that I'm still paying for. Maybe some of that is also some of the pain, that she lowered herself to allow that kind of treatment of her. It's like, the affair was bad enough, but how he treated her still hurts. I had her on a pedestal. I treated her with love and respect, and he treated her as something that I can't even type out.

It's like I had this prized classic car. I kept it in the garage all the time. I love only cared for that car, and you come to find out that someone was sneaking into your garage and taking it around the block and running it into the ground. Kind of a crazy metaphor, but that's how I felt. The thing about it is, she didn't even have enough self-respect to not allow herself to be treated like that.

I II don't want to make this thread about me. I feel like I'm going away from the actual topic, but I did want to address you personally, fenderguy, and offer an apology that what I stated cause you pain.

pinkpggy- I don't think my wife is worried about me being triggered. I am lucky that I don't really seem to have mind movies. I literally can't picture them having sex even if I try, the same as I can't picture her having sex with her boyfriend before we got together. Unlike yourself, my W was very sexually open when she was 20. That's when I started dating her. She seems to have forgotten what it was like, and says I exaggerate what our sex life was life pre kids. I was there... I remember the details of the "anything goes" nature of our almost nightly sex marathons. It's like a part of her died after our 2nd child was born.

"The whole thing is just a vicious cycle and I see it with my husband, I feel like I need to be "on" as a wife 24/7 because he is hurting and my actions either positive or negative affect his mood and behavior."- I'm sorry you feel this way. Nobody can be "on" 24/7. I hope this gets easier for you as time goes on. I don't want my wife to feel like she HAS to be on 24/7. I would just like her to be present, in the moment when we have sex. We actually get along very well and have good non sexual intimacy. We're always holding hands, kissing, we cuddle up on the couch. Our date nights always are great and we connect very well... it's just that none of that transfers to sexual energy for her. I'd feel like an asshole or a creep or something bad if I told her that in order to stay married to me, she had to provide me with X, Y and Z sexually. Maybe I'm just being too "beta", as the red pillers would say.

Trying2cope, no apology necessary! I'm all about needing to face your inner demons, and this was an issue that I had pushed down into my subconscious. I'm very sad that our situations have so much in common! My W also did it in our van once... a van that I'm still helping make payments on. A van that I drive my family around in regularly. It's easy to put your W on a pedestal. Like I said earlier, my W is kind of a Mother Theresa character in our community. But the fact is, both of our wives WANTED to have sex with their APs in the back of a van. He didn't "treat her" any way she didn't want to be treated.

Fender guy. Look up low testosterone in women. See if any of the criteria matches your wife.

I have loads to comment on. Will need to get into detail later.

This thread is forcing me to explore so much. I am glad I posted it.

I do have a very high sex drive. But reading some of the comments from the BH. I see so much of what I was doing was wrong. More on this later.

I can so relate to the van-I drive one and I met AP in it, we didn't have sex in it, because a friend that knew said, what kind of guy bends you over your kids car seat and bangs you. But we did in other situations that were degrading.

Yeah-that was an eye opener and I still went back for more. The level that I disrespected myself is astounding.

If my wife suddenly did something new, different and awesome sexually, I don't think I'm the kind of guy who would think "Did AP teach you how to do that again?" I'd be saying "Hell ya! Let's do that again!" I have a very high sex drive myself. I'd happily do it every day.

Iwantmyglasses, that's an interesting thought about the lack of testosterone. I've often wondered if the problem was something hormonal. W seems to not be too worried about it. I look forward to your next post about it

Fenderguy,

I am a BW. I am also a SAHM. I find it very interesting to see some similarities in this thought process between Mrs. Wallopped, Pink Piggy, myself. Am I remember correctly your wife was at home during her affair?

As a woman, a mother I would be very hurt if my husband watched porn and went to strip clubs. Mainly because the women in porn and strip clubs have lived a life of sexual abuse as children. To know this is what they have been conditioned to see as normal and then for my husband to view this as hot and sexy. It would degrade me. In reading these posts, I am sure you can see mothers get pretty down on their bodies.

My husband while he did cheat. He has never watched porn and has never been to a strip club. I am glad for this.

I am sorry your sexual life with your wife has been so unfulfilling. I see this so much with my friends. Friends complaining about sex with husbands. I would always be silent because my husband had to be convinced to have sex.

But reading your comments. I went about this all wrong. I too would walk in a room and say. “Looking ahead tonight is the night”. There was zero romance in it for either of us for years.

My husband also used the children as a shield. I tried for years to get them out of our bed. He always relented to the kids. Finally when our youngest was 3 the kids went to their own rooms. Our sex life did ramp up some. But I would never let my shirt to be taken off. I truly didn’t understand the visual aspect until this week. And I have had time to reflect on this.

One thing my therapist tried to impress upon me was this. “Sometimes we must take our spouse at what they say. IE beautiful after the affair. I love you after an affair.

I did reflect on some things after DD. I couldn’t believe my husband had an affair. I thought he HATED sex. We did not communicate any of our sexual needs at all before the affair. As I said. It was only for release.

My husband and I did have HB. I was so sexually repressed for years. I let my guard down. I threw out all of my old t-shirts. Underwear. My husband always said. He didn’t like lingerie. So I never wore it. But guess what! I needed it. I needed to very beautiful and lucious. I bought all new nightclothes and undergarments. I did it for me. I shave my legs everyday. So it’s something I don’t feel self-conscious about.

My husband never allowed me to give him oral sex after I became a mother. I was hurt by his. He let his AP. This was a wound. I am sure I wasn’t the best at it. But it was something I enjoyed with my husband.

My husband gets up immediately after EJ and showers. It made me feel dirty. How dare he do this to me for years and then go out and have sex with (MODS I am not name calling. This comment is for context.) a white trash wh—re.

I can’t speak for your wife. I don’t know what she feels. Did you ever consider broaching this in MC?

I am glad PinkPiggy spoke up about the van. It is very degrading.

I also hope my husband’s AP husband doesn’t think he is less than because his wife had sex with my husband. My husband isn’t original in bed. He does aim to please. But he isn’t a hero out of a novel or anything like that.

[This message edited by Iwantmyglasses at 10:23 AM, February 10th (Saturday)]

Fenderguy, I think bringing up those memories is a Good Thing, because that seems to be a catalyst to get you to change your life (and your W's) for the better.

I'm really sorry you have those memories, but remembering them is better than continuing to let them lie around. Best of luck with getting your W to join in the pleasure of sex.

********************************************

How could I look attractive?

“He was my husband! He was supposed say that”

That's low self esteem in action...discounting compliments from the one you love most.

One reason I'm glad I'm male is that I'm not the target of the constant messaging telling me something is wrong with my body.

Funny about breasts - Sophia Loren is my ideal woman. I was shocked to find out a few years ago that my W thought I was unsatisfied with her breasts. She thought that because she knew she didn't look like SL, so she assumed I somehow didn't like the way she looked. That was after more than 45 years my expressing love every way I knew how, including verbal compliments.

For the record, I've always liked the way she looks; in any gathering, even now, it's very rare for me to see anyone who looks better to me.

I get it, though ... I think. Given the way Commerce goes, I imagine SL felt/feels flawed.

I'm with CaptainRogers on this. The only thing that comes close to bothering me about my W's looks is abdominal stretch marks from pregnancy - and I'm 50% responsible for that. Besides, without the stretching, we'd have no son and no GS, so I'm happy with the trade-off.

My W is 73. She has wrinkles and sags that she didn't have 25 years ago. And yet, she still moves me like no one else does. I take great pleasure in seeing other attractive women, but I'm happy with my W on looks alone, and we are connected by lots more than physical attraction.

So there are men who value good looks and long-term relationships, who know that bodies deteriorate over the long-term, and who are good with that. I don't know how many of us there are. When push comes to shove, we may even be a majority.

My reco:

Stop worrying about getting old. Stop worrying about your body. (You probably look better than you think.) Enjoy the good stuff, including sex, that we can do as long as we can do it.

Note: I'm 73, too, and no one ever mistook me for Paul Newman. I'm fully aware that men deteriorate, too, but we don't see/hear constant messaging about our visible imperfections.

pinkpggy, you're awesome - thank you.

Lets say you "couldn't have sex" would you be satisfied with an emotional connection, kissing, caressing and really feeling the love from your partner, minus the act?

I absolutely would be if I felt this quote was important to my wife

Why were the words of a strange man more valuable to me than that? I am still working on that.

Looking back my BH acted that way towards me at first too, but he loved me for 20 years, he never left my side and never strayed

My wife and I have managed to miss each other's trying to love one another but

Thinking of their wife offering up sex in whatever ways to another man, that is just a major ego blow, and even more so if your sex life was lack luster before hand.

This has been my story and it just reduces a man to tears, and for some reason I can't get past it. I'm told I "Dwell" in dark places. Even our amazing MC said I need to figure out how to forgive and look forward instead of back. I just don't know how to trade 20+ years of hope, faith and desire that was completely crushed and destroyed to get to a new place and actually trust it. I feel like my youth and my life was stolen and given away.....

After traveling such a long road together with the consistent lack of sex and the slow death of my self-esteem, nothing but anger grew inside. Trying to repair that long road of repairs AND having to swallow an affair?? I sometimes am just shocked that my WW doesn't see or own that damage with empathy. I'm met with defensiveness and anger because I present with anger?? Such a vicious cycle.

With that said, I'm only two years out from DDay and quite frankly the first 10 months was a complete waste and caused more damage than good. I try desperately to post where I screwed up now in the hopes of helping others not have the train wrecks we had.

thank you again and Fenderguy, hang in there. Honesty, soul searching, reflection, healthy choices and patience can and will get you where you need to go. FYI-I played Fenders exclusively when I was a kid because I couldn't afford Gibsons, sadly I traded a 1967 strat for a 78 Gibson in my teens.....I regret that exchange every time I play her. I desire to know that my wife regrets her choices similar to that......the hardest part is "hoping" that someone will react a certain way and they don't.

musicandwine, good to hear from a fellow guitar player! It was something I was passionate about in my teens and 20s. Got married, had kids, busy all the time... guitars stayed in the closet most of the time. Then after DDay, I threw myself back into it, and it's been great! I have a Strat and a Tele, as well as a Jazz Bass. I plan to buy a Les Paul sometime before my band starts playing out again this summer. Looking forward to having one, finally!

I sometimes think part of the error in my ways post dd was I was so determined with handling it "the right way" that I didn't actually process my feelings. I didn't let my wife feel the full effect of how betrayed I was. I just basically said "well, sucks to be you. Good luck fixing this." I never let her see my cry. I read about what the textbook ways to handle things after dd were, and I just acted on that. The 180 really appealed to me. I never wanted to do anything that resembled the "pick me dance". If anything, I did the "Fuck it, don't pick me" dance.

Date night was good. We had fun. We held hands, had good conversation and body language. We didn't talk about anything sad or bad. It was chill and relaxing. It's her time of the month, which always means absolutely no sexual activity of any kind. Overall a good time, but the lack of sexual energy was highlighted. It's like going out with a good friend. Friendship is a very important part of a marriage. I feel like our marriage is great in all non-sexual aspects, honestly. I also know that I don't want to spend the rest of my life having one sided, mediocre duty sex. What is a boy to do?

My exwh was my first/only. We met right before I graudated from HS; he was a year older and also a virgin, so Inwas his first/only as well.

Our sex life in the early years was fun and regular. We weren’t super adventurous, but I didn’t know many teens who were. We did have a LOT of sex, though, and that continued post marriage and even post kids.

Where my story diverges is that I NEVER heard positive feedback from my ex. I used to ask him to compliment me, indirectly (ie “Does this shirt look good?”) and he would fail to pick up on it (ie “Looks fine.”). Toward the end of our marriage, but before DDay, I remember specifically telling him I NEEDED to hear those things from him. He still didn’t do it. Meanwhile, he was a total narcissist who would stare at himself in the mirror and talk about how good he looked regularly. And he wasn’t doing that to hint to me, as I regularly told him how wonderful and funny and amazing and handsome and sexy I found him. And I meant it.

It killed my self esteem and my attraction to him. We were having sex usually three times or so a week until DDay, and he was always sexually taken care of by me. I was the wife who would surprise him with BJs while the kids were napping and he was watching TV. Meanwhile, when he wanted sex, he’d literally say, “Wanna do it?”, touch me for about two minutes without really kissing me, then stick it in. Eventually, I grew to dread sex with him because I got nothing from it (not even orgasms), so I would just try to get him off ASAP so I could be done with it. I was falsely enthusiastic, gave him almost everything he wanted, did exactly what he liked in order to get him off. And still...he cheated.

The irony is, until about 4 months after my divorce (a year plus after DDay), I would tell friends how we had a great and active sex life. It was only after I broke free from him and dated others that I realized I’d been in a sexually dysfunctional situation for years. YEARS! We were together 18 years, and I could count the orgasms he gave me on two hands. He just never cared enough about me and my pleasure and I was so busy trying to keep him satisfied to ensure he’d never regret me being his one and only that I lost myself. I’ve since experienced sex with people other than my ex, and it was only in doing this that I was able to see how truly unsatisfying married sex had been, how truly emotionally abusive and cruel my ex and his withholding of sexual affection, and how he had emotionally abused me by not only withholding compliments and affection, but actively insulting me and bringing down my self esteem.

I think when we’re married we get into routines, and it takes both partners to break those. Being first/only lovers adds an additional layer because neither partner has experiences outside of those with their current partner and also (at least for me), there may be a lack of comfort in discussing sexual wants and needs. I was afraid to talk to me ex about sexual desires and fantasies, and any hint I wasn’t fully satisfied by him was taken personally and spun by him. I remember him telling me once that if I couldn’t orgasm it was because something was wrong with me. Why did something have to be ‘wrong’ with either of us? Why couldn’t he have seen we needed to change things and taken it as a fun ‘challenge’ instead of making it someone’s fault? I’ll never know.

Sex can be one of the greatest expressions of love and passion. It can also be a great tool for destruction or false intimacy.

[This message edited by ADryHeat at 1:16 AM, February 12th (Monday)]

I've often thought about the reason my WW never seemed to accept my compliments. No matter how anyone else sees her, no matter how she sees herself, I think she's very beautiful and sexy. The problem is how she either accepts or rejects my compliments and why. There is a very good description of what I believe is the answer in the Healing Library. Look at FAQ: from the betrayed spouse for the former wayward spouse # 18. I think it's spot on.

JimmyB,

Thanks for pointing out that article. Sooo true for me! Learning to accept (and believe!) my husband’s compliments is a real struggle for me. I can stand in front of the mirror naked and I only see the imperfections and the things I don’t like. My sagging butt and breasts, my stretch marks, I need laser in some places, my hot dog sized nipples, my thick eyebrows, my high forehead, the dots on my thighs. I obsess over these things. Meanwhile my husband looks at the same thing and thinks I’m hot and beautiful and sexy. And the funny thing is that I know intellectually that I’m objectively beautiful. I’m thin, in shape, good figure, and classically pretty. But I don’t see it when I look at myself. So he’d say it and I wouldn’t believe him. He married me so what is he going to say? I think you’re fat and ugly? No. So his words didn’t carry any weight. But my AP’s did cause he didn’t have to say that. Of course he did because he wanted to have sex with me, but I didn’t think of it like that. I thought he was simply being objective and told me what he really thought. Soooo stupid.

Why did you believe AP over BS?

Reading your words, I am seeing this.

My husband doesn’t want anything from me. He loves me. I am beautiful to him. He doesn’t have any expectations from me. He has seen me at every stage of life.

AP wants sex. Of course he says I am beautiful.

The one thing I believe in that is not popular on this board is the predator AP. These people are scum and can truly sense weakness in others. I don’t know all the psychological terms. It’s very evident who these AP are when reading on these boards. You had one, waited too longs wife, my friend who had the affair (her AP had 3 OW. One was pregnant) Blind sided wife, Fenderguy wife

Someone posted a great article before (can anyone link it?). Talked about the viewpoint of an AP to get a married woman to have sex with him. It gave me the creeps.

I get it. We all have choices. But what is it about these types of APs???

My husband as I have written, is not overly sexual. He LOVES a love connection. In a 5 week affair. They were getting married. Sang church hymns together. He has always hated being squeezed, scratched, pinched during sex. He came home with finger bruises on his body. I had been reprimanded so many times during sex because he hated rough sex. My husband is a HUGE man. I can’t even imagine what kind of woman could bruise him. She was a lot bigger than me. Who knows. Oh they even had special songs together. I seriously cannot make this up!!!!!!

It’s strange. She wasn’t angry with my husband when he came home to work on the marriage. She tried so many times to keep contact with him. I had him bugged and he NEVER called her or intitiated any contact. Even finding out he was STILL still having sex with me. (He rejected me the first 4 weeks of the affair. The fifth week we had sex twice. He actually said, “this isn’t love. This is just sex”. Who says that to their wife??

I can’t believe they both thought the affair would stay a secret. I am a SAHM, my life and all my days were dedicated to my husband and children. Hello!!!! I notice everything about them!! The day after his first time with her. I put my hand on his shoulder and I could feel it. I pulled my hand back and thought. What??? This is weird. Something isn’t right”. It was such a weird feeling. I asked him a 1 1/2 weeks later if he was cheating. Of course he lied.

My mother said (they were Visiting on DD) “I can’t believe he fell for this”.

Did you ever question why your AP would be so attracted to someone willing to break their marriage vows? Maybe that is why he thought you would leave your husband. You were willing to break your vows.

[This message edited by Iwantmyglasses at 10:47 AM, February 12th (Monday)]

In July I was still so ego stripped over the boob comparison between AP and myself. She had giant fucking tits, mine have reduced in a big way. I knew he had always been a boob guy. How could I compete? Would he always miss hers?

He set me straight, when I harrumphed a compliment of my rack from him.

"Tess, I don't love your breasts less because of the size. I love yours because they are your breasts. I love you, and your breasts, and loving you makes me love your breasts. It doesn't matter what size they are, I love them."

So I got over it.