SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

SeventyFour, up to now you are still working/sifting through SI posters posts along with what you know and what your WW has told you, you notice I have called your wife a WW, because that is what she has become/is through her actions, one thing to note, no matter what she says, she planned this act of betrayal on you to happen, it was not a spur of the moment thing that got out of control, I hope you understand that's why we say cheaters lie and lie in an effort to save face and deceive you.

It's time for you to take back control of the situation, and get the answers you need, for starters insist she takes a poly, you need to know how far the admitted EA went, was it in fact a PA and sexual intercourse took place or other intimate things, you only have her word for it, that it didn't, which does not confirm it's true, and you now know she is a WW and has cheated on you.

If you are think there may be a possibility to repair your marriage, then you need the truth of it out in the open, a polygraph can do that, to give you even the smallest comfort/need to feel you can give her some sort of trust back if she has told you the truth.

Regards BJE49

great thoughts by BJE

What are you willing to do to bring this around ?

You have been married too long and don't deserve this in your golden years.

Find the truth and keep posting and do what you need to do

Hope, Thanks for your continued advice and support. Thanks to the others as well. Here's a brief update.

WW is beginning IC. I am hoping this will be illuminating and successful.

I find myself obsessed with vengeful fantasies. When we were married so many years ago "our song" was "Stay in My Corner" by the Dells. We loved that song and for many years I thought we would always be in each other's corner. But a year ago she secretly left my corner for that of the OM. It was, as BJE49 says, "not a spur of the moment thing that got out of her control." It was a "planned act of betrayal," a rekindling of a relationship with an old high school flame

Now, after 45 years, the A marks the end of the "Stay in My Corner" marriage. The other day I was so upset I took the Dells CD with "Stay in my Corner" on it, broke it in pieces, and threw it in the garbage.

She is no longer in my corner and I'm becoming obsessed with a fantasy of being in the ring with the OM. My WW is now in his corner urging him on. "Hit him (that is, hit me)," she says. "Harder! Knock him down! "You're my Champion. Knock him out!"

But I'm mad as hell and grateful for the boxing lessons my father gave me as a boy. I go at him like a madman. I bloody the sweet talking son-of-a-bitch and then Knock him out.

My WW rushes to him as he lies on the canvas and tearfully tries to comfort him. I look at her as my gloves are being taken off. When the first glove is off, I make sure I have eye-contact -- and then give her the finger!

This extreme anger borders on craziness. It's something I hope I'll eventually get over. I recognize that it's childish.

And the problem will then be how to re-conceive and reconstruct the marriage. What shape or identity will it have from now on? She left my corner for that of the OM for over a year. So the "Stay in My Corner" marriage is forever dead. We'll have to give it a decent burial and move on. But to what?

have you even tried to figure out the depth of their affair ?

You need the whole truth before you move on.

After 45 years, I get your wanting to rebuild but just what are the consequences for her going to be ?

You are a very strong person. I don’t think I could ever get over what you said earlier about her possibly sitting their hopping you die so she could freely be with that OM and spending the money you worked on. Goodness. Especially if all you even can expect is a lesser marriage. More power to you.

This extreme anger borders on craziness. It's something I hope I'll eventually get over. I recognize that it's childish.

And completely normal. You will get over it. But it may take time.

Only you and she can figure out what the new song is. Or if the song is over. It's OK to not know right now what you want.

She's in IC...that's good. Are you planning to do the poly?

I hate hearing about another betrayed spouse. You have gotten lots of good advice.

Get "How to help your spouse heal from your affair" and "not just friends". Both good reads. Get IC for you, the ride is just beginning.

After this many years to all of a sudden be betrayed by your life long partner is a tough one to get over. I would consult an attorney to see your legal rights and maybe even your estate planner. You might want to change your will, life insurance beneficiaries and other things just in case there is more to this story. Stay vigilant!

how many other affairs did she have over the years?

74,

ok I am going to ask a few hard questions here for you.

1) I get 45 years, I get you are 73. If she is this way now or this unreliable, why don't you file D papers and see where it goes. Get a response.

2) Have you considered the polygraph yet ? Know what she did at least

3) Yes, make some financial adjustments to the will. It may be the last or second to last consequence you have

I feel so horribly for you, man. We are never safe in this game of relationships. My dad would have been 73 in 2009. Mom 68. Same ages as you. If Mom was cheating on dad at that time, I would disown her unless she was worth hundreds of millions, then I would help dad the best I can and when Mom died enjoy in the inheritance. Sorry, had to be real there but Mom would be dead to me at that point.

Do you have kids ? Do they know ?

Oh 74 this is so disheartening...I am so sorry that she is so selfish at this time in your lives.

I think it’s fine to take care of your finances in case she wants to divorce. I’m amazed how calm you are. I was just a nutcase but I got it from my father. It just cuts so deep.

I remember when I was 17...he was enraged..went off the rail when he accused her of cheating and cut all the credit cards and checks. it was pretty intense like shotgun intense.. I don’t know if she wanted to leave but I called the cops... my parents had been pretty good before they had fought before but nothing like this and my dad was a great Physician and community leader. But this time it was different Told her she had to stop working and but then suddenly my mom starts telling him that he can’t say anything after his cheating. He said that was along time ago. At this point I was the only adult and I took my little sister 6 to get ice cream. So I don’t know if the cops came or not because I was done with them.

But then the next day my father starts transferring and putting my names on all the documents. We go to the bank I start signing things. I asked what it was but I didn’t understand. Afterwards I find out I was the executor and everything was divided between us sisters. Our estate in Europe the same. But unfortunately I gave my mother power of attorney on and now she says it was all hers anyway.

I know I digress but how do I tell her ... nope mom you cheated and dad disowned you remember??

Ugh such drama..My sister only told me years how my father shared when dementia started that I was illegitimate though my father legally adopted me. That he was still married when I was born. And because they were in super catholic country they could just get married...so my mother had me as a single mother under her name. I learned that the church had excommunicated my mother because she was a harlot and my father was fined and but was granted his official separation. At that point he was able to divorce and marry my mother. I was in the wedding party.

So the moral of the story is tell your Kids everything.. you don’t want them to find out after you pass or have it taint your memory. Own up to it now.

74

I’ve only lurked on this site, this is my first post here. Reading your story was very much like my own. I’m 70, wife is 68, grandkids, the whole bit. Will be married for 45 years in three months. We went to a class reunion and an old classmate approached my wife and from that started up what became an LTA.

Like yours, my marriage went south, but unlike you, I never was smart enough to suspect an affair. I blundered into her affair while I was using her computer for other reasons. She saved her old emails as files, well hidden, with addresses stripped, sort of like cyber love letters. I read a lot of painful things. I’m 4 years out now, and so will tell you my mistakes (some, there are many), hopefully you won’t repeat them.

My son makes a lot of money in the computer business. He cautioned us a long time ago about emails. The security is poor. He says they are basically post cards, never say something you would not say on a postcard. Novice computer people can hack them easily. One of my wife’s emails was getting edgy and she then typed that she had reached the point they had agreed to go to in an email. She used snail mail to say “things my husband must never know about us”. You and your wife are my age, so I would guess you are more private in what you reveal about yourselves than young people nowadays. What I’m saying is that what you are reading is likely the minimum of what is happening.

My greatest regret is what goes by the term rug sweeping. Though the email evidence was overwhelming, I desperately wanted to believe it was an EA. She denied a PA and gave me a few minor details that she apologized for. I didn’t push and didn’t know enough to find a site like this. I pulled an accidental 180 and she bailed on her affair instantly. As fas as I know she is true to me since.

My not knowing more still eats at me to this day. We’ve drifted since. No “I love you’s” No real touching No real sex for two years. She just seems tainted to me now and I have no physical desire for her. I never check to see if she is cheating now, not because of trusting her, I just don’t care what she does. I think they call this a zombie marriage. You don’t want this.

You really do need to get this all out at this point. Telling this guy she was going to this reunion alone? Ouch! Kind of like in high school and telling your boyfriend to come over, because your parents weren’t going to be home. Then he gets a room, after he already had another place to stay. A room is basically a private shower and a private bed. Then moneybags makes a point of the cost, kind of saying she needs to make it worth his while. Her correct answer is: Don’t do that , we can go out to dinner and talk all we want for free. Instead she gives him her cell number. Ouch Ouch. Then she admits she went to his room that night. Ouch Ouch and another Ouch! She says nothing happened, but another poster said at least a polygraph, I’d have to agree. Getting close to lottery odds here.

It’s hard to divorce at this point in your life. Grandkids, family, friends, shared experiences, not to mention the financial side. Are you really going to find a new love? or perhaps just a companion to share your life with. I think (personally) better to suck it up and try hard to reconcile then start over. Of course YMMV.

So, summary: emails are just the tip of the iceberg, expect a lot more is going on. Don’t rug sweep, get it all out now no matter what. Infidelity secrets are like abscesses, you stay sick until they are drained. Once you get the truth, come down hard with the 180. They are correct here, you have to be willing to give up your marriage to save it. Finally do get your financial planning done, whatever you think will work. Your kids deserve the money a lot more than this guy.

Good luck. I've been where you are, It does get better with time, I feel your pain.

One last note. This may not be her first rodeo.

Thanks for all your helpful responses.

Western, I'm trying to figure out the depth of te affair. So far I'm sure it was at least an EA with a guy she'd been close to in high school. They have a lot in common, rural, same religion and so on. I'm urban, no religion. What she did fits perfectly what Dr. Nancy Kalish says about why romances "rekindled" from high school relationships are so intense.

justamadman, I may not have been clear enough. I don't think she's hoping I'll die soon. My concern is that if in fact she outlives me she'll take what she inherits and spend at least part of it on the two of them. This would make me die twice!

latebloomer, I realize from my reading here and from books it will take a long time to get over this. At the moment I have no plans for a polygraph. I think her relationship with "Jack" wa certainly an EA, which is destructive enough (maybe I relate more to women than to men in thinking a long-term EA is more devastating than a one-night PA). Whether it turned into a PA at the reunion, I just don't know. But since I think a long-term EA is bad enough, if not worse, I'm not overly concerned about it becoming a possible PA at the reunion.

trustedg, My wife and I are both retired and have ample time to read and have been doing so. We have read both "Not 'Just Friends'" and "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair." They are both very illuminating. They tell us about a world we never before knew existed. We are both also learning from this website. How naive we both were about the extent and nature of infidelity for so long.

skin21, I am thinking of making changes in my will so that my half of our joint retirement money and modest investments goes directly to our children.

Barry Brown, I am reasonably confident that there were no previous affairs. There was little oppotunity. It made an enormous difference to her that the OM was a friend from high school with whom she had been close. This is very relevant in her case. I have read that betrayers find it easier to stray with an AP who is an old friend whom they know and with whom they feel safe than with a stranger. It allows them to experience the thrill of "forbidden love" within the safety of a comfortable known AP.

western, to answer your questions:

1) If this had happened to me 20-25 years ago, I think I would have left and divorced right away. But now I'm older, have 20-25 more good years invested in the relationship, finding and moving into a new place would be hard, especially at my age. I like sex and am hoping to reconcile and resume. It would be harder starting again. So the idea of divorce at this stage is not very appealing.

2) Haven't at this point seriously considered a polygraph. She seems sincerely remorseful, and, as I said above, an EA is bad enough and would have been conclusive grounds for divorce 20-25 years ago.

3) In any case I will seek and make any financial adjustments to my will as I can.

My kids do not know and we're reluctant to tell them. They are incredibly busy and stressed by their demanding jobs and kids of their own. They have enough on their plates. Don't want to add anything if we can help it. I've written letters to each of them in sealed envelopes to be opened in the event of my death spelling out the details of the affair, its devastation on me, and warning them of the OM and telling them of my wish that nothing I have earned by spent on him.

Plumber, Your story and mine have a great deal in common. I agree that it's hard to divorce at this late stage of our lives. Thanks for sharing your experience and your advice. I will take it to heart. This is not what either of us dreamed of for our "golden years." Given what you have said, I will press harder about my WW's visit to the OM's hotel room and be more skeptical about what she says about it.

Thanks.

I feel your reluctance to tell your children, but their the 'ace in the hole' for you, and gives your wife real consequences.

Also, have you considered how they will feel, finding out after you've gone. They will be heart broken/annoyed.

You seem to be swayed by your wife, and her comfort. Remember, she was not concerned about yours.

SeventyFour - I do not understand why you want to stay with this woman.

First of all, she is a grown woman and the POSOM is a grown man! This is not some teenage romance from high school. They may have met in high school and she may have fantasies etc from then, but make no mistake, this was a brazen attempt at having an affair - her trying to first romanticise it by praising his poetry, justify it by comparing the two of you but ultimately consumate it for the rush that forbidden sex brings. The POSOM is just trying to get some forbidden nookie, secure in the fact that he will never have to take care of your wife - if she stays, she has you, if she divorces she gets half of the marital assets at least. So don't try and justify this in any way.

Second, she is NOT a good person. Why do you want to stay? You seem to be afraid that you will not get sex again or something. This is not true - ask others that have been through this. You have a better chance than her at your ages. Trust me I know.

And tell your kids - they deserve to know and not be kept in the dark. Change your will as planned but let them know why.

And then file for Divorce - tell her she can and should go to him - for her happiness and yours!

SeventyFour - I do not understand why you want to stay with this woman.

First of all, she is a grown woman and the POSOM is a grown man! This is not some teenage romance from high school. They may have met in high school and she may have fantasies etc from then, but make no mistake, this was a brazen attempt at having an affair - her trying to first romanticise it by praising his poetry, justify it by comparing the two of you but ultimately consumate it for the rush that forbidden sex brings. The POSOM is just trying to get some forbidden nookie, secure in the fact that he will never have to take care of your wife - if she stays, she has you, if she divorces she gets half of the marital assets at least. So don't try and justify this in any way.

Second, she is NOT a good person. Why do you want to stay? You seem to be afraid that you will not get sex again or something. This is not true - ask others that have been through this. You have a better chance than her at your ages. Trust me I know.

And tell your kids - they deserve to know and not be kept in the dark. Change your will as planned but let them know why.

And then file for Divorce - tell her she can and should go to him - for her happiness and yours!

74,

I truly understand why you are choosing to 'sticking it out' but what she has done in reprehensible.

How do you know she has stopped all contact ? How is she remorseful ?

I think you need to 'flush her out'. Expose to the kids and closest of friends, and take action financially in your will and then let her know you did that.

She may be staying with you for security. If she loses this security, it forces her to either go 1000% in on fixing her shit and regaining your trust or she will leave. If she leaves, you have your answer. If she doesn't, she either stays the course and you will have to lawyer up or she will fight to save the marriage but you will still have to monitor her.

In the latest case, she loses her flexibility and freedoms.

DO NOT BE CUCKOLDED !!! Fight hard and give her immediate consequences.

To me, doing this at age 68 is highway robbery. It gives the partner few options. It destroys their view of their marriage after so much investment and little time to recover.

You could also be dramatic and change funeral plans for yourself.

Right now, it is all about forcing her hand

I know much of this goes against or contrary to what you said above. Please consider your strategy and refine it as you see fit

Let me give you another scenario:

Your W comes clean, goes NC, works successfully to redeem herself and rebuild your M. You deal with the pain of being betrayed by processing it out of your body. You and your W have a more pleasurable and stronger M than you ever believed possible.

That's where my W and I are. She cheated when she was 65, in 2010; R started in March, 2011.

I'm concerned about an EA. Especially now, retired and aging, a couple needs to talk with each other, IMO. So why did she use her HS BF for talk and not you? What does she need to change to talk with you instead of her ap?

I suggest a joint session with your W and her IC; that way you can verify that she told the IC about her A. I suggest requiring a she sign a release that allows her IC to talk with you.

Why do you believe there was no sex? If it's because you dig, and her non-verbal communication always says 'no sex', that's great. If it's because you're afraid to dig, that's not so good.

What difference would it make if it was a PA?

What are your requirements for R? Is your W willing to meet them?

What's your vision of R? I'm with Plumber - I hope it's the M you want, not just settling for mediocre. Do you think 'great M' is possible with your W?

Demographics are in your favor. If you D, it's likely that you'll be surrounded by women looking for a partner or just a hook-up. (As you know, sexual desire doesn't necessarily go away with menopause.) Are you aware of the demographics - more older women than older men?

IOW, R works better if you realize you have a choice....

BTW, I know fear of the future comes with being a BS. It sounds like you're not letting fear govern your choices. IMO, that's a good approach.

**************************

Ummm...JFO offers lots of advice. Some of it tells you what to do. Some of it helps you figure out what you want to do and can do.

Since we all have to find our own path to recovery, I'd suggest the 2nd type of advice is the advice on which to place the most emphasis.

[This message edited by sisoon at 12:21 PM, March 6th (Tuesday)]

74,

I am so sorry that you have found yourself here. I am 66 and my WH is 68. He had a 4 month EA that probably was a PA as well but I can't confirm. He has refused to take a polygraph so I will always assume that they were physical. His refusal to take the polygraph was possibly more damaging than the affair.

It was excruciatingly painful and has required IC, MC and 12 step meetings for me to feel hopeful at 17 months past DDay. I don't think that I will ever fully trust him and I cannot lie, I will never feel the same. I do not feel safe to be totally open or to love freely. Now I hold back, I hesitate, I censor my words, I am less affectionate. I know that I would leave if I were younger but I have concluded that at my age, a life alone would not be better for me. That is what I concentrate on now; what is the best outcome for me.

My WH has done everything I have needed to heal (EXCEPT THE POLYGRAPH). He is affectionate, passionate, patient, transparent, helpful, in IC, etc. We are also healthy, work out often and were looking forward to travel and enjoying our freedom but alas, it won't be the same.

I have accepted the limitations of our marriage but reserve the option of leaving if I ever have ANY reason to think he is cheating, lying or hiding something from me.

I know that infidelity is brutal for all but I think that at our age it is critical that we make sure that we are acting in our own best interest. We don't have time to start over and create a deep bond with someone new. There were so many days when I wanted to pack my bags and leave, to satisfy my anger, for revenge, for self-respect, for dramatic effect.

For a while I felt trapped and that was the worst possible feeling. I am resolving that feeling by expanding my friendships, activities that make me smile, and living "one day at a time". I know that in time I will either heal fully or find a way to live my life without WH.

You are not alone, I get it. This sucks.

74

What has your wife been doing to prove to you she is safe? I saw you both read "How to Help you Spouse Heal from Your Affair" and "Not Just Friends" How did she respond to these books?

More importantly, what initiative has she taken? Has she signed up to see a counselor? Has she taken the steps to go NC with him and to give you all the transparency you need? (Passwords etc.) Has she been asking you what you need?

I know a few days ago you mentioned she is giving you information "grudgingly" has that started to change? How is her demeanor around you? Is she concerned for your hurt and well-being? I am trying to gauge where she is at right now.

I ask this because it is a very telling sign. For me, I had dday 1 back in 2009. I came across an email and from the email it was clear there was nothing physical that happened. Anyway, I was hurt and would tell my H that I was it devastated me what he wrote even though it wasn't a PA. Back then he would dismiss my feelings and tell me that I was over-reacting. I hadn't found SI yet, (and wouldn't until the very devastating dday 2 in 2014) so I believed what he told me. Of course I was over reacting. It was just an email. Nothing more. So, I allowed myself to believe I was over reacting to the situation.

Well...5 years later is dday 2. Remember, yet again, those 4 OW? My H reaction was 100% different than the first dday. By then, he wanted out of his secret life and told me everything. I only had proof of one woman and he told me there were 4. He then tripped over himself trying to get me his passwords and sending out NC letters. He was a motivated man and he apologized profusely for gaslighting me all these years. He was bending over backwards to help me in anyway he can. He knows how bad I hate to cook and he now cooks dinner and cleans it up (and has for the past 3 1/2 years) every Sunday for the family because he wants to show me that he is grateful I stayed. So, I have experienced false reconciliation and real reconciliation and I understand the difference between the two.

So, (sorry that was longwinded) I am just trying to gauge which one you are in. And yes, it makes a difference. False R means you will have Dday 2. True R means you will not.

So, what is she doing to prove to you that she wants to be in this marriage? Has she gone from grudgingly giving you info to tripping over herself to get you anything you need?

I think Plumber gave you solid advice spoken from one who knows and has been where you are now. Sisoon has given you a good example of how good your marriage can still be despite the hell you are currently in. Both of these men understand where you are and both have had different results. Plumber stated his biggest regret was rugsweeping. Sisoon's situation didn't involve rugsweeping and had a much more favorable outcome.

The bottom line is that you can go on to have a very happy married life down the road, if BOTH of you are willing to do the hard work. And boy, is it hard and I can't imagine how much more it sucks to be in your golden age where you are supposed to be retired from hard work and yet here you are.

I can add to Sisoon's experience with my own. I was so happily married before. BUT, I am more happily married now. I mean, I still struggle daily but this hell has brought us closer in a way that few other things can. We need each other and we have fought for each other and we don't take each other for granted.

That can still be your story. What is your wife doing to show you she still wants that happy ending?

Hope