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You would be using another person.

That's my biggest problem with the "hall pass" concept. The only way I'd consider a hall pass is by using a professional, because, then, of course, it's clear there's nothing implied/expected. For men, using a "hall pass", even if freely offered by your wife, is going to involve some massive amount of lying to the person you use the hall pass with. "I'm just f**king you to get back at my W" is going to be attractive to about 0 women, so you'll have to lie, and, by virtue of that, wind up using that OW, she's expecting something else, and you're not going to offer it.

For women, it's very different, when I was younger, "Want to go back to my place, my husband cheated on me, and I want someone to bang my brains out" would have been about as attractive an offer as a woman could make to me.

It's very different between the sexes when it comes to this, a woman with a hall pass can be totally forthright with her paramours and find one in <1hr at any bar in America. A man with one will be doing a lot of lying, spend a lot of time looking for someone, and then probably wind up having to do a lot "more" than just have sex (fake the emotional involvement, for example). It's basically requires having an affair; which I can't see anyone being OK with. For a woman, or a man using professionals, it can be a totally physical thing; which, IMHO, is really what the "hall pass" is offering; sleep with someone else to even the score. Don't have a full blow affair. Because, honestly, who in the heck would possibly offer that up?

That's my biggest problem with the "hall pass" concept. The only way I'd consider a hall pass is by using a professional, because, then, of course, it's clear there's nothing implied/expected.

Disagree. I’ve been approached and I know of multiple occasion where the woman is looking for sex and just that.

Doesn’t care about your relationship status. It’s all about them. Sort of like my WGF when I stopped sleeping with her and touching her. She couldn’t care less about him but his words and attention.

I think many on here are too traditional in their view of women. They have sex, they have ONS and they don’t need a ring. Happens all the tine

Disagree. I’ve been approached and I know of multiple occasion where the woman is looking for sex and just that.

I have never had that experience. Yes, I've had women indicate that they would be "up for some fun" but never before I've made some effort to talk/seduce them, which, if I were married at the time and looking for a RA, would involve a lot of lying.

I'm sure there are some women out there like that, I've just never met them. And probably never will, because I don't put for any effort at all to talk/interact with them; I don't give them a chance to ask for NSA fun, because, doing so would involve flirting/opening the door (in my eyes).

I have had plenty of "NSA flings" when I was younger, but all those involved the implied "promise" of more.

I think many on here are too traditional in their view of women. They have sex, they have ONS and they don’t need a ring. Happens all the tine.

Yes, I agree. That is why it drives me crazy when people put forth the reasons women have affairs is for emotions and men have them for sex. When I was single I just enjoyed sex with a real man and not a BOB. Didn't need, or want, anything else from the man.

She offered me the hall pass as part of R for me to use whenever. She said she doesn't want to know anything about it...

Wait a minute. Everyone has that. That's nothing special to give. Have an A but make sure I never know. That is what every WS thinks they are in and they didn't need a Hall Pass for it.

This is suppose to presume that what makes it a Hall Pass is it gives you permission to not feel guilty. That is not something a WS can give to their WS.

Bad idea.

That is why it drives me crazy when people put forth the reasons women have affairs is for emotions and men have them for sex.

While not true for you, without any further information, just knowing A is a woman and B is a man, if A and B both have an A, it's likely that A was for emotions and B was for sex. Is it always? Of course not. Some men do have EA's (although, most only will do that if it could/will lead to a PA) and some wives do go on Craigslist one day and put up an ad for NSA sex. It does happen, yes, but it's rare compared to the "normal" A that we see here every day, woman falls for a guy pays attention to her and says a bunch of nice things, guy falls for a woman who will give him some extra sex on the side. That is the "typical" story because that's the most common version of an A. From there, there are countless individual stories that are very different, but, in general, that's the narrative not because anyone has an agenda, that's the narrative because that's the typical story. It's pretty much word for word my W's story, and with very little exception, is the story I'm told from other men who have had A's. I know probably a dozen men who have had an A, and 0 of those men have mentioned anything about "love" or "feelings". All of those men have mentioned the hot/kinky sex. Is that a good statistical sample? Nope, not at all. But it's good enough for me to draw some conclusions, especially coupled with the huge sexual power imbalance between men and women (men have to work to have NSA sex, women generally just have to say yes).

Yes, I agree. That is why it drives me crazy when people put forth the reasons women have affairs is for emotions and men have them for sex. When I was single I just enjoyed sex with a real man and not a BOB. Didn't need, or want, anything else from the man

No matter how many woman demonstrate the old stereotype is a fraud, many seem to need to cling to them. I am a man, when I was young and not married, there was not a shortage of women eager with no strings.

The false assumptions posted as a basis for topics on SI can be frustrating because it posts a premise as if it is factual, then asks for input based on what really is a fallacy. It serves to regurgitate old stereotypes that are not valid.

Off my soapbox.

....it's likely that A was for emotions and B was for sex.

I think SI stories would suggest it is all about the sex for both, but they may both get different things from it. Read the stories about many WW's here. Many are aggressive in their jump to sex.

I think the whole topic of sex in an A avoids the real issue. Both men and women want sex in an A. They each may get something different out of it. But the sex is the delivery mechanism for what each is getting. Maybe for some women it is a heightened sense of emotional connection and attention kibbles and maybe for some men the sex gives them some feeling of power or triumph. Who knows. But they both mostly can't wait to jump to the PA in order to get out of the sex what they both came for.

It is about the sex almost always for both and they each take from it what they came for.

It is about the sex almost always for both and they each take from it what they came for.

If that's true, female A's make a lot more sense to me. But I just don't think it's true; and I think you mentioned the "other things" in your response, the attention/ego kibbles/etc. Thing is, all those things are fake, you may as well get a self-help audio tape repeating "your a sex goddess, you are so beautiful", because the man will say any of that, and more, to keep the sex coming. How do I know that? Because I did all that, and more, to keep the sex coming in many previous relationships.

You know, frankly, knowing myself, and seeing how my W's AP acted, I'd just sign off men entirely if I were a woman and knew the "mind of a man"; I really would (unless I just wanted to have sex, which, many women claim to not want, and their actions seem to indicate that is, in fact, the truth).

Yes, if you want sex and nice words with nothing behind them, an A will get you what you want. And I guess, what you're saying, is that is in fact what a lot of people want. But I think that most people want words that are more than that, words that mean something. And that; you are very unlikely to get from an A.

I've read a lot, a whole lot, of WW stories that include "I only had sex to keep what I wanted flowing". Yes, I have read that indicate what you mentioned, but, I think that there are a lot of WW's who really didn't care if they had sex or not, as long as the loving compliments/gifts/etc (whatever was missing from their primary relationship) were still on offer. I think most women know, however, that there's only so many times you can tap that well without having sex before the man loses interest, especially a man who's risking his marriage; that's a high hurdle to cross without sex involved.

I've read a lot, a whole lot, of WW stories that include "I only had sex to keep what I wanted flowing". Yes, I have read that indicate what you mentioned, but, I think that there are a lot of WW's who really didn't care if they had sex or not, as long as the loving compliments/gifts/etc (whatever was missing from their primary relationship) were still on offer.

This. I can tell from my WGF that he wanted more after the week and she wasn't feeling it anymore because the compliments sort of stopped and reality started striking. Of course i caught her, but she confessed to it all. I kicked her out and told him to pick her up from the curb. She didn't want anything to do with him, although he showed her more compliments and interest than I did in the past year and we already had talked about breaking up a few months before that.

I also think a lot of men do go for the emotional, they want to be heard, they want someone to find them interesting and sexy. When a woman comes on to me, i usually cut it off after 10 mins or so, but I, like most human beings, suffer from some sort of self-esteem deficit. So i take it in. I know plenty of guys do too.

AS for women and NSAs. Maybe its because i live in a big city with a lot of young single females. I can tell you, it happens all the time. A friend of mine has sex pretty often, and she doesn't care about knowing anything about the guy if she is just feeling it. I am sure she's been the OW on multiple occasions.

I've been approached on at least two occasions, one in which i was just smoking outside and offered this woman a cigarette...she finished it and said i was sexy and that she had a hotel room.

I definitely think there is a generational gap when we think of women's sexuality. They like sex just as much as the next person.

I want to make it clear that just because I was fine with casual sex didn't mean I didn't make sure the men I were with weren't single/unattached. If I knew or thought there was a SO, no way would I go there.

For men, using a "hall pass", even if freely offered by your wife, is going to involve some massive amount of lying to the person you use the hall pass with. "I'm just f**king you to get back at my W" is going to be attractive to about 0 women, so you'll have to lie, and, by virtue of that, wind up using that OW, she's expecting something else, and you're not going to offer it.

This is a sweeping generality. Plenty of women are ok with occasional one night stands. I suspect you'd also find more than a few who would be interested just for the "get back at wife" part... sad but (I suspect) true.

This is neither an endorsement, nor a condemnation of the hall pass concept btw.

Yes, if you want sex and nice words with nothing behind them, an A will get you what you want. And I guess, what you're saying, is that is in fact what a lot of people want. But I think that most people want words that are more than that, words that mean something. And that; you are very unlikely to get from an A.

But we are talking about infidelity, not real life with real love. Of course in real life, where real, genuine love exists, you are not going to accept a trade off where sex is not a sharing of love. But you would in an A. This is the point. An A is the very pinnacle of what getting from sex what you can is made of. Infidelity is the make believe world of kibbles and phony words and actions on both sides that serves to get their fix.

Yes if you want sex and nice words with nothing behind them, an A will get you what you want.

Exactly. That is the real life of an A. Both sides use sex for their kibbles and bits. One gets from it what they need as does the other, and without sex, the whole phony premise would fall apart in many cases.

The problem is most people are so fixed in on "sex" as in the act for the acts sake, as in men just like to do the dirty. But in an A, sex is the thing for both to get the unicorn and rainbow strokes they both want.

Women in healthy relationships like sex as much as men in healthy relationships. Sometimes more. Yes, women like sex for sex and for the other things that sex does for them.

[This message edited by DIFM at 1:36 PM, March 27th (Tuesday)]