SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Thank you Veryhurt, Marji and Dogsnbooks.

My H took the Carne test last night and got a 9. I will have him do HBI tonight. His immediate feedback is that he just had an addictive personality in general. It doesn’t have to be sec.

We had a difficult night because of his TT. I now have mind movies over incidents that occurred 5 years ago. To me, it’s like they happened 2 weeks ago when he confessed. He even used his own lie to make an excuse for another affair.

Dogsnbooks, if your H doesn’t even fully remembered what he did, how do you not become a nervous wreck because new info can surface anytime. Every time my H says I have something to tell you, my heart sinks and I get panic attacks for a few days after.

For those whose WS have been with a lot of people, do you find the mind movies easier to accept? It’s like I can’t focus on hating one AP anyone. My H is the sleazy one and all the women just morphed into one.

Dogsnbooks, if your H doesn’t even fully remembered what he did, how do you not become a nervous wreck because new info can surface anytime. Every time my H says I have something to tell you, my heart sinks and I get panic attacks for a few days after.

I react the same way, so clearly I haven’t figured out “how” yet. It’s torture. I am still on the hunt for an IC to help me deal with all of this. I’ve had pretty shit luck finding one so far.

Dogsnbooks,

I have an EMDR therapist. I like how she allows me emotions, the more the better. I can not vouch for the EMDR yet.

My H just admitted to his IC that the power and thrill of an illicit affair without risk of exposure sits right with him. sigh! He is either trying to kill me or is an idiot for sharing that info with me when he claims he wants a reconciliation!

How long have you know your H is a sex addict and do you think he has made progress?

[This message edited by Bestthing at 4:12 PM, September 4th (Tuesday)]

My H is the sleazy one and all the women just morphed into one.

Truer words never spoken...

My husband "only" had sex with two OW. The majority of his time was spent at strip clubs (yech!) I was hurt badly by his actions with these two OW because they were "relationships" "friendships" until they became sexual. That wasn't his main focus, sex. It was always about finding some simpering female to hang on to every word, to look at him with admiring eyes. He dropped both like hot potatoes and certainly never seem to "miss" them although he clearly missed the attention (mine wasn't good enough)

Now, after strong recovery and constant, consistent healthy behavior, I see even these two as unimportant, a blib on the radar of his aberrant behavior. The sleazy women are truly irrelevant.

I have an EMDR therapist. I like how she allows me emotions, the more the better. I can not vouch for the EMDR yet

I “found” a trauma/EMDR therapist who seems great, but her schedule is booked currently during the times I’m free. I’m on a waiting list with her, but in the meantime, calling around to someone others.

How long have you know your H is a sex addict and do you think he has made progress?

DDay of webcamming was in Dec 2017 but only had the addict realization in May/June I believe. As far as progress ... depends who you ask. About a month ago, I found out that he never actually stopped the porn and had been lying about recovery. Since then, he claims to be sober, but who’s to say. He has made progress in other ways, like communicating more and being more patient. Those are nice things, but frankly pale in comparison to the continued lying and deception and gaslighting.

SAWH and I have actually been doing really well, considering what we've been through this last 3 1/2 months, but last night we hit a rough spot. SAWH went to his SA Support Group and he told me that he told them that I'm doing great and he felt like I was "over everything" and after he came home and told me, I started balling. I feel like he thinks that I'm going to "get over" this after only a few months, and I feel like it's going to take YEARS. It's very frustrating, because although he's being very supportive, I think the perceived recovery timeline is very different for us.

Every time SAWH goes to group therapy (his sex addiction clinic)he comes home and we discuss it. Our therapist thinks it's a good idea to do this, but it always makes me go downhill. It doesn't seem to matter what it is, something makes me cry and I hate that. Do you BS's discuss your BS's IC or Group therapy after WS returns? I feel like it's setting us back every time.

Lastly, SAWH has bonded with another guy in his group that has gone through a similar path as him, and he thought maybe it would be a good idea for me to talk to or meet his BW, as she is much further along in the recovery process and doing really well. I was REALLY looking forward to talking to her, but the guy called over the weekend and told my SAWH that she feels that it would bring up all the trauma for her all over again so she doesn't want to talk to me. I totally get that but I was so upset about it that I started balling. I just want someone to bond with locally and tell me "it's going to be okay" and "we're going to make it in our marriage." Does that make sense? Everyone around me (mostly my family) doesn't get it, so it's hard to talk to them. I know probably most people have not told their family, but I'm VERY close with my brother and mom and dad so they know EVERYTHING, and have a hard time supporting us going forward. Mostly my dad, as he is furious, which I guess I understand.

Well, I found a short “erotic story” that my SAWH wrote of a role playing scenario.

Obviously spurred by a discussion that we had the other day ... him saying that he still had a fear of commitment, then through our talk figuring out that it’s more of a desire for sexual exploration than a true fear of commitment. Anyways he said that he thinks doing roleplay sex might help with that, once we get there (I am still not at all ready for “normal” sex much less role playing and running the risk of it just being another way for him to act out, just with me).

So ... I don’t know how to feel or react to this. Wouldn’t fantasizing and writing an erotic story be crossing a line in his recovery? This early especially. He’s only about 50 days sober (if he’s even telling the truth).

Every time SAWH goes to group therapy (his sex addiction clinic)he comes home and we discuss it. Our therapist thinks it's a good idea to do this, but it always makes me go downhill. It doesn't seem to matter what it is, something makes me cry and I hate that. Do you BS's discuss your BS's IC or Group therapy after WS returns? I feel like it's setting us back every time.

After DDay1 and DDay2, for a few months, I asked to hear something about either his visit to his CSAT or his 12 step group.

I use it, in combination with find my friends to verify that he's being truthful about going.

I also might ask where he is in working the steps..to see if there is progress.

Otherwise, no.

I mean, there's just no good way to hear about struggles. And, my goal is still to stay married to my husband. That will never happen if I continue to hear he struggles to stay faithful to me weekly.

ETA: I have a new therapist. I'm not sure I like her or that it's going to be a good fit. But she said she doesn't always think the spouse needs to hear everything about the addict's struggles.

[This message edited by secondtime at 1:09 PM, September 6th (Thursday)]

I never asked about specifics of his meetings. He never asked about mine. There is a very rigid rule in 12 step meetings about anonymity, things discussed aren't supposed to leave the room. IME it was hard to talk about generalities without referring to specific comments or people. And, yes, I didn't want to be re-traumatized. I detached a lot, I worked on myself.

I did meet with him and his CSAT a few times so that I was aware of his process in general, and his veracity with his therapist. I did/do ask about his state of mind, ask him what he intends to do if he's triggered.

Dogs. Oh HELL no. That is slippery slope behavior at BEST.

He's got a lot of work to do.

Lionne,

You described my H to a T. My H just couldn’t resist these aggressive admirers who came right out and asked for sex. Even when these women are not attractive inside or out, he went along! Like your H, mine had sex with 2 relationship type affair. The others were kisses and hand jobs at the massage parlor.

There were two patterns I noticed. (1) It started out as small exploration that grew out of control over the years. It started as a watching porn habit, simple as that, that grew into watching live couple having sex online, then hand jobs, then texting, then 3 months affair, then 3 years affair. It’s like he graduates to the next level. (2) The women he was with are the bosses at home. They completely manipulated their husbands and one even yelled at the husband for exposing her affair to me! But with my H, the women played the soft, fun-loving submissives. It’s mind blowing. Every was playing the opposite role!

VH Good to hear that you're doing well considering everything but yes, it can be very maddening when they don't seem to realize the trauma they've created and seem not to remember that healing normally takes years--not months. That we can function and even enjoy some parts of the day, the week does not mean we're "over" it.

Perhaps your therapist can do more to make that clear to your H but that means you would have to make clear your feelings about this if you have not already. Your H needs to know the basic facts of betrayal trauma and one of the ABC's of BT is that it typically takes a long, long time.

There is a good two part podcast that addresses this; you might want to have your H listen; it was advised months ago by another SI member (mod approved)--it's an interview with Marnie Breecker at the Addictive Mind talking about the traumatic effects of SA on the partner.

Our C advised my H to share essentials of his talks with his sponsor with me; that was in part because my H is in serious need of reprogramming to become a more communicative person; someone who shares thoughts and feelings--or even small talk. It was also to deprogram his self-absorbed, insulated ways that enabled him to live a secret double life for so long.

I don't know if that if the reason your therapist advised your H to share about his group meetings but perhaps it might be wise for you to ask the therapist's reason for advising your H to do that and to let the therapist know that these sharings make you unhappy. I would think if it continues to have a negative effect on you then it's important for him to stop--at least for the time being but maybe learning the therapist's reason might having you feeling differently.

Im sure it was disappointing for the wife of the the guy your H seems to have bonded with to back out; but Very I think you might find great support, camaraderie and comfort if you found a group for yourself. A IRL group can be a huge life changer. Not all groups are the same so it is a matter of finding one where you feel comfortable but it's well worth the effort to search one out even if it means bit of a drive; many in my group travel up to an hour or more each week because they find it so helpful.

I have never spoken with the wife of my H's sponsor; she doesn't attend the group. But because of the group I have at least three people I would feel comfortable calling and speaking to and who I know would be helpful; people who do get it. And sometimes it's helpful, normalizing to speak to others like that--even if it's about something else--like the latest news. It helps to not feel isolated and alone. And just from reading your posts here I get the sense that you are a very sharp and strong and energetic person who would bring a lot to such a group as well as gaining from it.

Dogs Anything that makes you uncomfortable is something to avoid--unless maybe things like the laundry or ironing--and hey, if that's too much of a burden . . .

Seriously, betrayal trauma has consequences and loss of affection, loss of desire, interest, loss of good feelings and thoughts associated with intimacy is one of them.

You say you don't know how to feel or react to his suggestion--there is no 'right' or 'wrong' way to feel--what is right is to give yourself permission to feel whatever and however you do feel; know that whatever you are feeling is just what you should be feeling at any time and all you need do is be true those feelings and true to yourself.

About what he thinks about what would be helpful--really, how good has his judgment on such matters been so far? Seems that this is something he should be discussing with his IC.

Just FYI - I’m on serious pain meds - been reading and keeping up, not too much to say, I feel meh. More below

But first ...

Veryhurt - you need to find your own group. I resisted forever, but once I was able to meet and get to know others (you know who you are!) it helped me a LOT! One group I went to my husband found out about thru his group, he asked outright, got info about where others wives went.

No one understands, except others who are going thru this. I feel like these women I know, here, and in RL are the only ones I trust now.

We, SAWH and I, used to discuss group (our part, not others), but lately we do less and less. I’m not sure why. Maybe because I just completely don’t care right now, my recent discovery of another hidden lie has made me just give up on him. I’m just here existing for now so I can go to my therapist. Strangely he seems to have doubled down on his healing, but I don’t trust him and see no way to. I’ve even ended IHS because I want company, tired of being alone.

So to the pain med high - I had a tiny scar in the inside portion of my bottom lip since childhood, well in the last year I chewed it so much from stress (imagine that) it grew and was huge. Dr decided to send me to a plastics guy to get it out. Went weds (coincidently - 1 year anniversary of the day I left him last year) and it’s gone, and oh my! it hurts so much! Swollen, pain, ugh! And that scar and I were great friends - it got me thru so much stress! Just cause everyone else hated it. Ugh. Freaking SA crap never stops giving me gifts. So much pain too!

I’m high, hope I’m making sense.

Also, sent the OW my closure letter on the 30th. No peeps from her. Maybe because I included in it the facts of her stalking him for 7 months, she would have to explain that to the new boyfriend she acquired during that 7 months. I’m so glad I had my say. It was incredibly polite, no bad words, etc, just said in several ways “you are a sad sick person and I’m a much better person, you need to go to therapy, don’t respond, I won’t read it”

SMJ, oh my! Just what you need. I'm so sorry.

I'm glad you sent the letter. It gives you a modicum of power. You are right, she's a loser.

One day at a time...

Thank you Lionne!

One more day. I can do this

UGH!!

Is it typical SA behavior to turn everything around so it's not their fault, but ours?

For example: We went for a drive today. Had no particular destination in mind, but it was beautiful out and we didn't want to sit in the house all day. Went shopping at a couple of stores, etc. Then we were over in the part of town where his brother lives. I ask "Is XXX home? " (He was taking his daughter out of town for a concert for her birthday last night.) I got an exasperated eye roll expression. "I don't know!" I thought maybe he thought I was hinting that we could drop by there, but I wasn't really, just trying to make conversation-it's difficult anymore. After he told me in no uncertain terms that he didn't know what his brother was doing or if he was back in town, I stayed quiet. Until I couldn't stay quiet any longer. Then I called him out on the eye roll (a habit of his that annoys the heck out of me), and asked him not to try to assume that he knew what I was going to say before I said it. He apologized. Then after a few minutes, he told me that he wasn't criticizing, but if I could ask a different way, instead of "Is your brother in town?", I should've asked "Do you know if your brother is in town?" then he wouldn't have made that expression! (And yeah, I get what he's saying, but seriously???)

So in other words, it's MY fault he got annoyed with me because I didn't ask the question right???

Is that as stupid as it sounds to me?

Cause I don't think I even want to talk to him anymore if there are rules I have to follow.

Immature people act like children. Rolling his eyes at a simple question is immature. I'm guilty of doing it once in awhile, try to keep it in check.

That said, he's annoyed not so much at the question but at some inner dialogue related to the question. So what! ? He'll get unannoyed soon enough, or, if he's doing the work, will arrest his passive aggressive behavior and TELL you he's annoyed and why.

This isn't a communication specific to addicts although often, Ime, it's very common with all family members when addiction is present. See, there's this huge secret, that they share. Even if the addiction is unknown to the spouse, the kids, SOMETHING is wrong and it causes shame in all parties. sa wives learn to not ask questions in order to keep the peace, and THEY become p/a. We know addicts can't be genuine, it's why THEY become p/a.

He's just no good at expressing his annoyance in an adult way that could promote effective communication.

He can learn. This is a great topic for an mc appointment.

But you know what? He's entitled to be bitchy and annoyed, he's allowed to have that reaction. And he'll get happy again. It's not your job to improve his moods and reaction.

But you don't have to put up with it.

I took awhile but now I immediately tell my husband to stop his pre recovery manipulation by mood. I leave if he's slow to rephrase his stupidity, and give him and now annoyed me, space. The more recovery work they do, the more likely they'll give it thought enough to change.

But you can't change him. I'm

Thank you, Lionne. You are right, I am learning not to ask questions. In fact, I'm learning I don't even want to talk to him. It's hard to want to carry on a conversation with someone who makes you feel like an annoyance or a bother.

OMG, Jade, are we married to the same man?

Communication is a HUGE issue for me with my husband. Our MC is always pointing out how unclear my husband is and how secretive. For years, his communication was designed to either hide or manipulate. Never to convey authenticity or create honesty. So what a pile of hooey to parse words so that he can "hear" it without being defensive. It's just a way to put the spotlight of blame back on you and for him to play the victim.

My husband LOVES to play the victim and LOVES to blame. I no longer accept the blaming and point it out every time. This goes on all day long if I choose to communicate. I think much of the victim stuff is unconscious and a big part of their work is figuring that out and bringing it to awareness.

And I agree with Lionne, it's profoundly immature.

ashestophoenix

You know, I almost didn't post this last night after I had it all typed out, because it seemed like such a stupid little thing for me to be upset about. I guess it was literally the straw that broke the camel's back. I'm choosing not to initiate conversation with him today, which I know is passive-aggressive in itself, but I don't care. I've been sick for the last two weeks and I'm just tired. Thanks for listening, ladies.