SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

It seems as though you are ultimately willing to forgive him for anything, if only he will become an honest, transparent man. You are offering him a massive, enormous gift! The gift of stripping off all of the bullshit lies and facades and actually living as an honest person, without fear. Without continually juggling the external lies with the internal truth.

Stay your course. Don't accept anything other than him sitting in that poly and coming out with the truth, and with a flatlined response that the poly examiner can only shake his head at. Don't drop your standards. Make him become the person he can become.

But it is going to take a huge, massive epiphany on his part. He's not ready. He's still trying to manipulate things.

This is a situation and an opportunity of his own making. It can be a transforming moment for him, if he chooses to take advantage of it. He has an opportunity for the truth to set him free. You are one in a million in your patience and willingness to wait.

But just don't let anything less than his absolute, total respect and openness be good enough for you. Demand what you deserve.

Sending strength!

If a dog pees on a rug it's imperative you know the location so it can be cleaned properly. Sure, you can clean all around it but if you don't know the exact spot it will stink forever. My opinion is that the unknown is like a spot of pee. It festers in the mind of the one who doesn't know and after a while it stinks up everything.

Someone mentioned Joseph's Letter. Have you read it?

You won’t be able to move on till he is honest with you.

Right now you can not rebuild any trust as you know he is continually lieing.

Trickle truth is all about them. Their fear you will leave them. Their fear to look bad. Their fear to face the mirror.

Until he is willing to put you first you have a regret. Regret he is being challenged. Regret he got caught.

You can not have true recovery with regret. You need a remorseful spouse. One who is worried about what you need.

You needed to know if he did things in the car with her.

Your husband wants to rugsweep. If he doesn’t tell you about the car he doesn’t have to deal with the solution. Conference sex, there are solutions.

He wants to keep you blind and uninformed so he doesn’t have to deal with the consequences of what he can do.

My spouse continued to travel. When off work he had a immediate FaceTime boundry. He had to FaceTime me immediately or he was out. He had to sleep with Skype on while in Germany. He did those things with out fighting them. Once he understood what it would take.

Yours is saying you don’t need to know and if you do we will not recover. It is a veiled threat.

He swears it is, and says we will never be able to move on if I keep picking and digging at the details of the past.

After two poly's and he is still saying this toxic all about me crap. This would be my deal breaker. He does not get that it is not the details you so need to hear it is honesty and safety that you need to confirm.

He is not interested in confirming, showing, or providing any of that. This is now, and will likely always be about him, and your pain be damned.

So very sorry for your pain, but there is a way out of it.

Seems to me he has yet to show he is willing to be truthful and transparent, still trying to hide and snowball you from the facts.

Still lying to you.

He is not worthy of any attempt at reconciliation, at this point. He still doesn't "get it". That's a deal breaker.

I just realized what was bugging me about that statement of digging at the past. You aren't digging at HIS past. You just want to know what YOUR marital history really is. I give credit to those few who can ignore the truth and go forward. I couldn't do it.

Every lie is a brick in a wall he built between you. As long as those bricks exist, there will always be a wall of some kind between you. Can you live in that kind of marriage, knowing that he is actively seeking to build a wall between you and a part of him? Even after he has seen the pain that building such walls has caused? No, the bricks must be knocked down completely, so there are no more walls between you.

After the 2nd failed poly he SWORE he was telling tbe truth. And then he finally admitted he was STILl lying about details of his extra marital sex.

This has nothing to do with digging up the past.

Basically he wanted to avoid the present day consequences of his past behaviour so he lied. You are not digging at the past you are trying to deal with the present.

He is showing you who he is today. He is still willing to lie about his hurtful behaviour to avoid consequences. What will stop him from behaving like this again?

He is currently not R material. R is long and painful with a spouse who is all in. Its impossible with an unremorseful lying spouse.

Please give him consequences or you will be repeating this song and dance all of your married days.

So, the things he said he lied on: three places they had sex that he didn't want to tell me:

Once in his car - because then I would never be able to ride in that car again

Once in his office - because he knew how much it would hurt for me to go in his office.

Once at a conference - because he knew I would never trust him to go to a conference again.

Of course all of those were assumptions, and I still had the right to the full truth. And of course I still have no way of knowing if this is the full truth. He swears it is,

Of course he swears it is.

I think what you need to ask yourself is this - why didn't he tell you any of this before he sat this last test? Then he could have passed. Were these lies worth failing a poly over? He knew when he walked in there he was still lying. So he KNEW he would fail. Keeping these not 'so' drastic lies back to explain the fail means that he placed himself in control of telling you why he failed. He has said it's because of these truths... but... How do you know it was just these lies that he failed over? Answer? You don't.

And of course I still have no way of knowing if this is the full truth. He swears it is, and says we will never be able to move on if I keep picking and digging at the details of the past.

You wouldn't have to keep picking and digging if he would just tell the truth. But he won't and never will. He wouldn't even do it under the threat of failing a second polygraph and you know why? Because he didn't care if he failed. He figured he could just con you into believing more lies, or reconciling with him regardless of them. He has zero respect for you and figures you'll never leave, so why should he make an effort or change his ways?

I'm sorry, but I'd be telling him bye-bye. You're worth more than this. Leave him with the secrets he so desperately wants to keep to himself, and they can keep him company while YOU move on to a better life. Strength to you, whatever you choose!

What cheaters fail to understand is that it's not about rubbing their nose in their own dirt. It's about KNOWING that no matter what you ask or how you ask it, no matter how uncomfortable, embarrassing, or problematic the answer is... the person with whom you've chosen to share your life with will consistently give you The Truth. It's about Honesty.

Post-betrayal, this isn't just a building block. It's the very FOUNDATION upon which the new relationship must be built. It's not about the answers. It's about his sincere willingness to provide them... the foundation of new trust.

Yes ^^^^^^ to the above.

After the first poly and first go around you decided to give him another chance and the gift of R. Like many BS's (myself included) you felt you could work it out and he promised you things and you believed him.

You are now in this place again, with someone who you felt you had to do a 2nd poly with, which is embarrassing and heart breaking enough for a BS to have to ask for, and then to find that he is lying again.

I am so sorry. I know your chest hurts, your anxiety is thru the roof, you are silently crying on the inside and I know you don't want to pull the trigger on your marriage. I know you don't.

You can stay in the marriage if you want, many a BS does. But you will still find down the road that this will eat away at you, the trust is gone. And he is not doing anything at all to help regain that trust, so you only have his "word" which is worth nothing. Its a horrible place for a BS to be.

But at the end of the day it is your marriage and your choice. Whatever you decide to do its all still going to hurt. Painfully so.

So he went into the second poly without giving you the truth and failed again, and then gave you some additional information.

Schedule another poly and explain that this is his chance to give you anything else he is withholding before the poly. Do the 180 as he is withholding the truth which leaves you in infidelity, not knowing the truth of your life.

He is slow torturing you. He is lying and hoping he can pass the poly so you will stop asking questions.

He's thrown you an empty sack of a few lies/small bit of info he's withheld. He's playing the victim that you'd divorce him over this little thing.

I wouldn't ask for another poly. I would just proceed to talk with a divorce attorney and do the 180. He needs to offer up a 3rd poly and a heck of a lot more truth.

It's not the cheating that kills the marriage - it's the lies.

It's not the cheating that kills the marriage - it's the lies.

Amen, sister.

Peace123, so he has failed the Poly twice, then why on earth are you still in a way defending him.

You know he is a untrustworthy person, and if you have not yet decided to cut him loose, then you need to right now and get on with your life instead of hoping he will change, because he won't.

Remember the saying about leopards and their spots.

Regards BJE49

I suspect she won't be back but if she does come back and reads here, Peace123, please know that I am on your side; what I mean is that I am on your side in going through, figuring out what you want going forward, navigating whether your M is worth saving. Unlike most of the responses telling you that you have already given too much, asking "why on earth" you are still defending him, judging you based on things that we (outside members) could not possibly understand.

On threads about lie detector tests, I find it interesting I'm starting to see a trend. Member has spouse take one or maybe more than one test. He fails, members bombard with responses like leave him, you should have left already, no hope for your marriage, he is a hopeless lying cheater, what are you waiting for?

And the member, who still has not decided for sure whether there is no hope for the M, leaves this forum and does not come back.

One of the last times this happened, because I disapprove of lie detector tests since they are not based on good science, members accused ME of not being supportive. One member actually insulted and flamed me but she got away with it, and I think some others believed her points, that I was somehow not supporting the original poster because I disapprove of lie detector tests. That was far from the truth and I was highly misunderstood.

In fact, I think people put too much emphasis on these tests and getting the truth about the past (which NOBODY GETS 100%, but some of you choose to believe you have it, if your spouse passed 3 or 4 questions about cheating).

If it makes you feel better, great but there are members here who have admitted even after their spouse passed, doubts continued and after time, the fact they "passed" the test didn't even mean anything to them. Still others actually found out their spouse lied and still passed.

The ones who fail are doomed even though there is no REAL evidence they are any different inside themselves than those who passed.

The biggest part of my point here is that in one of the last posts Peace made, she asked a valid question. She wanted to know if maybe it was okay to focus on now, and the future (since her H was being transparent, going to counseling, gave all passwords, she knew where he was, etc. all the time)? I said yes, and that is what worked for me in my M. I know and have accepted I will never have 100% of the back story; I assume the details are WORSE than I know, but part of accepting he had an A means accepting the worst.

I focused more on D-day and the days going forward when he told me he would spend the rest of his life proving he could be a man who deserved me for his wife. It's going on 12 years and he is still making good on it! I am so glad that I gave my H this chance! I have no idea if Peace123 would have had this outcome and don't know whether her H is remorseful, but I don't think his results on the lie detector test tell anything useful at all.

This guy has shown you who and what he is. Believe him.

This isn't about him any longer.

This is about you, and despite knowing everything you know, that you are finding a reason to sweep it under the table and stay with him.

If that's what you decide to do (stay with him) than just know moving forward you will become one of two people. Someone who turns a blind eye to his deceitful ways and continuos lying, or someone that will be in detective mode 24/7 because you know who and what he really is.

The question you need to ask yourself is whether or not you want to be one of these two people?

Again this IS NOT ABOUT HIM ANYMORE!!!!!

It's about you.

Choose wisely.....

BobbiSue, Is right.

This is about you, and despite knowing everything you know, that you are finding a reason to sweep it under the table and stay with him.

Saying she knows he cheated and does have SOME details but wants to work on her M from this point forward is far from sweeping it under a rug.

In my first M, my XH confessed to two prostitutes early on in our M. We barely ever talked about it again for more than 10 years and it just was not dealt with. I did think about it and did impact me, but no we didn't really talk about it and yes I would say that was one definition of sweeping it under a rug.

In my current M, I did not get a "time line" or details to my satisfaction of what happened but it was far from sweeping it under a rug. My H knew that I would be vigilante and if anything close to cheating were to happen again, I would divorce him, it was not an ultimatum. It was just the boundary I set for myself. I knew I could not control my H; I could only control myself if he should cheat again, by having a plan (divorcing) and following through with it.

I have no idea if Peace123 would have had this outcome and don't know whether her H is remorseful, but I don't think his results on the lie detector test tell anything useful at all.

I don't agree with this statement, but threads around polygraphs will surface again and again around here. To me, polys are twofold, and often times, are not used where they should be, IMHO.

I don't believe that they are simply pseudo-science. They can have remarkable accuracy, and there can also be examiners who simply aren't as good as others. But I'm pretty sure that several government and high security type workplaces don't simply use them because they "hip". But when it comes to infidelity, and how they are deployed here, opinions are going to vary. I am more a fan of using it as a 'team', after the fallout, and when the two are committed to reconcile. Only after some REAL efforts are put through with the WS, and are showing what at least appears to be remorse, would I consider the right time to use a polygraph....if the BS needed this. By this time, the story has been gone through countless times, the timeline has already been given, and the stories seem to add up. THEN, it would be a good time to prove to the BS that they are worthy of trying to be trusted again.

But to just dismiss two different poly failures? and only being a SHORT time since the last TT has flowed out? That would go against everything that the BS was trying to get to the bottom of. I'm not a fan of 'dump his/her ass' advice, but I'm less of a fan of a BS putting up with lies and omissions....and trying to work through it. If my partner isn't willing enough to give the decency of HONESTY after what I was put through, then they can go pound sand. I have to respect myself more than that.

What cheaters fail to understand is that it's not about rubbing their nose in their own dirt. It's about KNOWING that no matter what you ask or how you ask it, no matter how uncomfortable, embarrassing, or problematic the answer is... the person with whom you've chosen to share your life with will consistently give you The Truth. It's about Honesty.

Post-betrayal, this isn't just a building block. It's the very FOUNDATION upon which the new relationship must be built. It's not about the answers. It's about his sincere willingness to provide them... the foundation of new trust.

It's worth quoting again, because it is golden.