SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I have seen many posts where the APs Delete messages, create a fake contact , or use an app. In my situation, the OM deleted messages from work phone and used burner phones. He encouraged me to rename his contact to a female alteration of his name. He is a serial cheater. (Currently with OW1, 2, and new OW4.) I was OW3 but bowed out after our last blow out. Plus he has the wife. Why didn’t it occur to me during onset of the EA phase that he was way too knowledgeable for this to be his first rodeo??? Naivety. How many people can one person juggle?

When you start digging in you might come to realize that you did know, or part of you did, and you just ignored it because it did not jive with what you wanted to see.

I did so much of that. In the early days after D-day I wanted to look at myself as naive and/or I wanted my BS to be wrong about what he, from his much more objective viewpoint, had observed about AP and what kind of person he was. From the very start, though, I can see now that those little hints that I just glossed over in my mind about AP, his history, how he treated other people, etc. I just didn't want to know or believe. Cognitive dissonance had my thinking about what was and wasn't true of AP pretty wack. Same goes for BS, for that matter. Same goes for what I thought about me, for that matter.

It feels so good to get it all straightened out and have internally consistent, coherent thoughts about the infidelity, who we all were and what actually happened.

Anyone using this level of “OpSec” isn’t just giving into base temptation, they are likely seasoned cheaters bordering on sociopathy.

Same situation with me. I never had an affair so I never knew what to look for or signs of a serial cheater. After d day (his not mine) it all clicked into place and made sense.

Burner phone

Established email account(s) with fake name

Knowledge of chat aps

Not able to text/use real phone number (before burner phone and while we were just friends)

Not able to be Facebook friends

Never gave me personal info, real contact you info

He had reasons for all of it but mainly that his wife was jealous and didn't like him having female friends.

[This message edited by pinkpggy at 8:23 PM, May 23rd (Wednesday)]

His1stMileHigh,

Why didn’t it occur to me during onset of the EA phase that he was way too knowledgeable for this to be his first rodeo???

You knew, just like you knew what you were doing was wrong, just like I knew, but we lie to ourselves and don't allow ourselves to accept our actions for what they are or we would not be able to go through with them.

Isleguy-not denying when I reprogrammed his contact that I knew my actions weren’t proper. He said it was best until my divorce was finalized. I never imagined someone being able to invest soooo much time with multiple women and keep them straight. We spent a lot of time with one another so I never thought he had more women. OW1 and 2 knew about me and were said to be jealous but I didn’t know they even existed. Not to mention the wife was unaware they were ‘separated’ in his mind. He said the burners were needed until his divorce was finalized. Fairly certain he never filed nor intended to.

I never progressed past the EA phase but I was naive at first about this type behavior. I got clues so I eventually figured out there were more women. I tried to stop because this was painful but I couldn’t. Won’t get into details but he had lots of free time.

Plus he has the wife. Why didn’t it occur to me during onset of the EA phase that he was way too knowledgeable for this to be his first rodeo??? Naivety. How many people can one person juggle?

If you knew he had "the wife" as you call it, which sounds pretty damn condescending coming from an AP, then you can't claim being naive. You just didn't care because you wanted to be special. Stop focusing on him, as you have been told before and focus on why you would allow yourself to be an AP. What does it matter if there were other APs and how many a man can juggle? All that matters is that there was at least one (you) and that he was married. He didn't cheat on you. He cheated on his wife. I suspect you didn't care because you just judged everything on the fact that you were divorcing. Why don't you stop tackling the fact that the AP cheated on you and focus on your own selfishness and willingness to degrade yourself and hurt others.

Not to mention the wife was unaware they were ‘separated’ in his mind.

But they weren't. He just gave it as his own justification and you were willing to be satisfied with that. Why?

OW1 and 2 knew about me and were said to be jealous but I didn’t know they even existed

Why did you mention the APs were jealous? That is always a red flag to me. Trying to prove you were special? Why do you care if you were to a cheater? You could have just said they knew about me and I didn't. But, you had to mention that they were jealous. Why? From what I have seen, including your handle- you have spent every post IMO convincing yourself that you were special to this AP. Just stop and let it go. You weren't. Face it and move on. It hurts, but it is reality and you are wasting your time trying to figure it out and prove otherwise. Focus on fixing yourself and being special enough for yourself and maybe eventually to a single man. Wanting to still be "special or unique" to a serial cheater is like wanting to be special to Hitler. No one in their right mind wants to be special or should care what a person with that character thinks or wants. Instead of trying to get that high, you should be feeling revulsion for him and yourself.

Zugswang - I am analyzing my behavior as well as his. I placed him in the single category because he said they were separated. In my case it was true, in his it wasn’t. He and I went out of town together on multiple occasions without any calls home so I felt secure that he was being truthful about the separation. My “handle” is based on what was likely another lie from him. If a married man is able to juggle so many women I can only assume a single guy can do the same. This was the only person I had been with other than my ex so it was not a good “back on the saddle” experience. I do worry about the signs I missed and the others I chose to ignore in both my former marriage and this relationship. I pointed out the other OW jealousy as it is puzzling to me how women opt to be the OW or even one of many OW. For me, the ‘high’ from the relationship was the newness of dating again, thinking that someone emotionally connected with me and shared common interests, and the secretiveness from our employer (even though it was more open than I would acknowledge at that time). I would not have gotten a high from thinking I was an OW to a man with an unsuspecting wife; or if I knew I was OW#1234567. None of what happened makes me feel special as it was all smoke and mirrors. I’m still angry and hurt because I know I can’t distinguish genuine from illusion.

Yeah, I think that it's just part of the process to dissect the A, what you were told vs what was real, and to define all the lessons learned even those beyond "don't have an A". I think this is a natural part of "getting it".

I agree that you do have to watch that you aren't still looking for proof you were special to him, but, I think it's normal to sift through the ashes and realize how many things you were blind to. That part to me was a humbling experience to see myself with the wool over my eyes, and had some universal lessons in there as well.

All normal.

It makes you wonder why you allowed yourself to be so worthless. Why was it ok to accept that in the first place. Why was it ok to put yourself in that situation.

Exactly^^^^

Why was the excuse separated but not knowing for sure they were or divorced okay with you. You said you suspected.

I was honest too but looking back there were signs I ignored that pointed to him being a liar.

Are you being honest with yourself that you really didn't know at the time or really just chose to ignore the signs and really knew at the time. Most APs that come on here usually admit they knew and chose to ignore in order to continue doing their own selfish thing. Just saying. So, why did choosing to go ahead and okay it over suspected he was lying? Even if he was telling the truth. He was still technically married as were you. Though in your case you were divorcing and I am sure the next time you will make sure the man is good and divorced.

Sorry just not clear on if you continued the relationship once you knew.

Dday by his BW was Late '17. We went NC, resumed contact until late January when I realized everything he had told me was a lie.

Both of us wore ours during the A.

Generally speaking why wear the rings if you are divorcing and separating.

Do you see yourself as a victim? Do you blame your choice to believe what you wanted to believe on being naive. I just can't see how any of that will help you to stand firmer and choose better in the future.

Your posts and what you say just seem to contradict what your last post was. Or maybe it is because you are working through it. Maybe it is because I am a male. I just see a lot of pecking order shit. You pointing out the "jealous thing" this too.

.He “said” they were living separate and Sleeping in different rooms. He “said” he purchased a camper as a temporary fix to the nightly chaos in their house and took me to the place he was moving to. He “said” that they quit sex years before due to health issues and never resumed despite her attempts because he “said” he was no longer attracted to her. He said she had gained a lot of weight, but also said she was a pill popping crazy person. I thought it was plausible they were separated as we went away together and he never called to check in with her. I don’t know now how much was true, if any.

She hurt too much for his preferences, she had gained a lot of weight, and the sex wasn’t good so he avoided it at all costs. I had been through sexless periods so I thought it was true.

And your choice of a handle. Which is usually a status thing being his 1rst. I just think that asking yourself why it was okay to be in this relationship based on this stuff was okay with you. Like another poster asked you. Perhaps you have worked through that yourself.

To me your questions seem more about you being a victim and less about you choosing to do this to yourself. All of it stands to me that you knew. You just didn't want to accept that he was still married and chose to justify it off of him being unhappy. Even if he was, why was it okay to still do it and be the KISA for him?

And by (you) I mean (we, us, WS). Not just the OP.

I often ask myself what was I thinking, was I that low on self esteem that I thought this was OK? The truth is I never really thought it out. I just acted selfishly because it felt good.

Obviously I am not communicating my response is clear enough. I did believe that he was truly separated. Some of our behaviors and actions were done to prevent complications during divorce proceedings. Or so I thought.

There were things that I felt like he may be lying about before D day but not anything major to think that his marital status was not as he said it was. The unhappiness that both of us discussed about our marriages was what I thought historical stuff leading up to decisions to divorce and not partial fabrications or rewritten history to justify having affairs.

Several responses seem to be indicating that I believe I am a victim. I do not think that I am a victim however I thought I was in a relationship with just him and vice versa.

I do consider myself an equal participant in an affair since I did continue after she contacted me based on him telling me that she was just crazy. This is the point in time in which I should have immediately ended everything and never spoke to him again.

I cared a lot about him and I still do but I know that he belongs to someone else. My feelings were not a high from an affair but actually invested emotions into what I thought was a genuine relationship. It is hard to deal with heartbreak from the ending of that relationship in addition to guilt for being involved in damaging a marriage. I struggle with balancing the two.

This was not a relationship that formed in one day and so I have to look back at how late did form to ensure that I never do this again.

Concerning the wedding bands I was new to the job when my marriage had ended and was still wearing my band. I was too ashamed to tell people about it and kept wearing it long after we officially separated. We are now divorced and I still wear it and I hope it keeps some of the rumors damn concerning the relationship with my former supervisor .

Isleguy- I am not being judgemental of you as I am not a judge or the jury for your relationship with your wife . I have often read and thought that you seem to show consistent remorse for your past behaviors.

I do want to say that I do not think that you and I are in the same category of individuals when it comes to relationships . You seem to be more aligned with OM in my instance . He sought out the women and continues to do so .

I exhibited bad behavior when I engaged in drinking with a man that had a wedding band on and I know that I have I had never done that none of this would have ever happened . After too much alcohol he had asked questions about my marriage and I indicated we were separated . I had not told anyone else . All of the sudden he was in the same situation .

Maybe if my OM was and AISLESGUY on the plane or in his heart with the vows he took going down one in a church then I wouldn’t be on this forum.

That clarifies alot. So, you aren't a wayward? You were an unwitting OW turned OW till you got proof that he really wasn't leaving his wife from her and finding out he had other OW based that from your own experience separating really meant separated on the verge of divorce.

Because like many of us (although some here claim the ‘im perfect now and you’re a piece of shit’ attitude) it felt good, you thought you were different, you wanted to believe you were special, you NEEDED to believe you were special, that the fantasy was real bc the alternative was/is this... sometimes, especially when you’re trying to come up for air but you’re akready into deep, living the lie is easier bc you’re onky thinking about the moment bc you can only think about the moment, because it’s the only good in your day and the idea that it might be a lie is fucking suffocating.

Here’s the thing... the lie is over. You know the truth. You know it wasn’t whatever you thought it was. What are you going to now?

Take what you can (cynics bs digs can be left behind) and run with it. Run and run and run until you figure out what inside you made all this head turning and lying ok. What made the fantasy better than the reality. Chances are you’re feeling pretty in the dumps right now. Rightfully so but you sure as shot aren’t gonna make things better focusing on him and wouldas, couldas, shouldas. Focus on you. Get yourself healthy and move on. You don’t wanna be relative to this knuckleheads caliber. Make your own. Shine bright and eventually, forgive yourself.

Correct Zugzwang.

Here’s the thing... the lie is over. You know the truth. You know it wasn’t whatever you thought it was. What are you going to now?

I’m going to keep reading, writing, and exercising until I feel not so broken.