SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Ask her if he showed up. At this point it's all you've got

Would he be staying at the conference? If so, call the hotels and ask to speak to him. They will pipe you through if he is there. You can either stay on or hang up at that time.

You have every right to be concerned.

When the OM said he loved her that was the point of no return or the time for her to end it (she didn't). Her response was just the opposite: "oh I'm not that glamorous" .... she basically said that she was flattered by his love and encouraged him to keep it up. She's not the victim of the OM. She's encouraged him in the past - and now they may be going underground.

She created this mess and is entirely responsible for your doubts about her and your loss of sleep. As a result of her conscious choices/behavior, she forfeited her right to be trusted by you.

Based on her behavior with the OM, there is no reason for you to accept her word or trust her explanation regarding the OM. If she's been honest with you and sincere about NC, she should be volunteering to take a polygraph test.

Maybe you should raise the stakes to get her full attention and stop rug sweeping. Inform her that you're not convinced she's been honest with you about the time line with the OM and NC ... that you can not live with this uncertainty and her breach of trust ... and are therefore scheduling an appointment with your attorney to see what a divorce.

"if there is something people make mistakes"

An A is NOT A MISTAKE, a mistake is when you UNKNOWINLY and UNWILLINGLY do something like grabbing a Diet Coke instead of a regular Coke, when someone begins an A, they have made a conscious decision WILLINGLY, they KNOW what they're doing, they CHOOSE to do it and keep doing it, they make hundreds of calculated decisions to HIDE the A, so if there's something going on, She knowing all the risk involved, DECIDED to have an A and if it went PA (which is what most adults do over those many months), every time she WILLINGLY and EAGERLY spread her legs to allow OM to penetrate her vagina and suck his penis multiple times, all those times were calculated decisions, sorry to be blunt but every time someone says that an A is a mistake I feel the need to make the clear day and night distinction between the two.

I am very new to all of this, but I totally agree with Busted123 that an affair involves making active choices.

I think, though, that we have to be careful to distinguish MISTAKE (dictionary: an action or judgment that is misguided or wrong) from ACCIDENT (dictionary: an event that happens by chance or that is without apparent or deliberate cause).

All EMA's _are_ mistakes (i.e., wrong), none of them are accidents.

To me, a WS saying that their affair was a mistake _is_ an acknowledgement (at some level) that their choices were wrong.

However, a WS saying that their affair was *just* a mistake, well it seems to me that they are trying to diminish wrongness of their choices and haven't fully recognized the consequences of those choices, or that they actively made those choices. They may be conflating "mistake" with "accident."

I find it so critical that your wife went into your computer, looked at your order history, and left it open so you would know she knows about the VAR's. Who looks at their spouse's online order history, unless they are suspicious of something? And why would your wife be suspicious of you, unless she is trying to keep something underground and she is keeping tabs on your efforts so she knows where to go to be outside of your ken.

I also go back to this from your OP:

To be honest I have been suspecting that she may be involved in something for several reasons, our intimate life has dwindled in the past 15 years. Once, maybe twice a month and she never initiates anything. There is never any special occasion intimacy-- no anniversary, holiday, vacation, or birthday sex. I try, but she usually finds some excuse, usually an upset stomach from dinner. When we are intimate she rushes the whole process to the point that it is almost unenjoyable. She tells me to hurry up and it is straight vanilla, nothing else, I am not allowed to touch or kiss her anythwhere except on her face and neck; she never kisses me back. Outside the bedroom She is rarely affectionate, but this is who she has become. I have read that being a mother does stuff to a woman's body and I can except this although I am bothered by this. I chalked this up to getting older and have children, although I hoped things would get better once they left for school.

Have you made any efforts to address this? Or even bring it up as a concern?

Confused,

Wish I had been more online recently…

Frankly it sounds like you took my advice and suggestions to heart. At least it seems like you confronted right away and took my points about being direct and being careful in how you analyze your investigative results.

However, you seem to have ignored a KEY ELEMENT in my advice.

You haven’t read Not Just Friends, nor have you asked your wife to read Not Just Friends and you two haven’t read it together along with the exercises in that book.

Imagine this scenario: Imagine you have a blind person that is walking towards a ledge. A couple of yards before the person plummets off the ledge you grab them by the shoulder and direct them in another safer direction. You might tell the person that you were afraid they would harm themselves if they walked over the ledge. But unless the blind person knows what a ledge is, what damage falling 20 yards can do and/or why you grabbed their shoulder then maybe they won’t appreciate what you did.

Your wife is that blind person.

I don’t know of a single case here on SI where a wife has established a relationship with someone with the clear intention of getting into an emotional affair. If we could create some scale from 0-10 where 0 is the initial meeting/friending and 10 is an EA just before a likely full PA, then all cases I know off start at 0.

I also think that even if it were an 8 when confronted by the BH the WW would not necessarily see the EA as an “affair”. I would even venture that a WW in an EA rated at 10 could and would deny it being infidelity. At most a friendship that went maybe too far…

But then – maybe one could counter that at 8 there is generally some physical or sexual context in the affair. Things like kissing, holding hands or sexting.

People minimize their mistakes. That’s just human nature. You do it, I do it. We ALL do it. I might justify driving at 65 in a 55 zone with the excuse that everyone does it and that I’m a safe driver. I might justify leaving my job early that I have already done so much, more than others. We all minimize and justify.

I don’t know at what scale your wife was when you confronted. Maybe just a 2 or a 4. Probably no higher than a 5. But when she phoned OM and when she talked to you she basically said “It’s not me. I’m ok with speeding at 65 because I’m so SAFE. But my passenger (husband) is afraid of speed. I know everyone does it, but I guess that for him to feel safe it’s better you drive another road”

Honestly neither I nor you should give a hoot about what OM thinks. He can think you are unassertive and afraid, controlling and whatever… OM is a non-issue and should be out of your lives. I am OK with whatever excuse your wife might have used to end that relationship.

What I worry about is that your wife does not realize she was a 4 and headed for an 8 and then 10 and then (possibly) a PA.

She doesn’t realize there was a ledge ahead.

She doesn’t appreciate why you grabbed her shoulder.

You have already confronted her.

You have already expressed your concerns.

Now finish it.

She’s going to other conference, right? She will travel for business? OM could drop by in your town and your wife and OM could do the dirty when you think she’s at work, in the mall or at the gym?

If she wants to cheat she will.

It’s that simple.

You are worrying about it and wondering about it will only drive you nuts.

So, finish the infidelity talk.

Get that book. Read it.

Sit wife down and better express your concerns. Tell her that you don’t think she acknowledges and appreciates fully why you were worried and where she was situated emotionally. Demand she read the book with you. Talk about it. Confront it.

Tell her that you ask for fidelity. If there are issues or if there is something she wants that you can’t offer, then she be honest. You can accept it if the marriage were over. But you absolutely refuse to share her.

confused1976,

Do you still have the MC scheduled for after her return from the conference?

[This message edited by TimelessLoss at 12:09 PM, August 1st (Wednesday)]

looks like this is a long drawn situation. The important thing is your peace of mind and welfare and your ability to be productive in your other responsibilities such as the occupation. Do not get suffer/victimized over and over by indulging otherwise you are the only one who will be affected

Next time you have her phone go into settings, privacy, location services, system services. This will show you where her phone has travelled. Assuming she has location services turned on. If she does not you can turn it on and check again.

Bigger's post above really resonates for me. To me, the standard is: "If I would not do it in front of my wife/husband, I should not do it." Your wife carried on an emotional conversation with this man. The conversation reached levels that you would have been uncomfortable with had you known about them when they occurred. Your wife kept this a secret from you. That's not okay.

It is possible it never went farther, but it is important, as Bigger notes, that she understands why this was not okay.

Pay special attention to Bigger's last post. He is a kind man but me not so much. You are clearly rug sweeping this.

On reflection what really worries me about this statement

She agreed that from my perspective that much of her behavior was inappropriate

was that you did not strongly challenge this assertion. Not that she actually said it as fairly typical cheaters script but that you accepted it and just moved on with the discussion.

You need to be much more assertive with your wife. I know, not easily done but very necessary in these circumstances.

Be strong and check in for support and advice.

Confused,

Were there any revelations about the conference?

Do you still feel like she is trying to do the right thing by you now?

[This message edited by RubixCubed at 10:02 AM, August 5th (Sunday)]

Don't hesitate to reach out. You are not alone.

Good morning if you really want to know the truth, I have a suggestion, if you can have physical access to the property go to this site: https://mobile-tracker-free.com/

if it is necessary that you have physical access to the mobile to install, a Once installed it becomes invisible, and the person does not know and can not delete, with this application, which is free, it collects all the sms, record the calls, take the picture of the screen, can see live what is happening on the cell phone, location, and he can open the audio of the cell phone in invisible mode, where he can hear everything that happens around. But you must be well aware of the level of vigilance you will maintain, in my case I discovered through this application, collected everything, and then confronted if I did not know, to this day I keep watch without her knowing.

If you and your wife both have iphones ask her to get and turn on 'Find a Friend' application and you do the same. You may have to download it (I can't remember). Its limitation is that it has to be on and the person has to have the phone with them but you should have an agreement that both of you will carry it.

Its great for eliminating unnecessary calls or texts when waiting for someone to get somewhere. Say you are worried your wife will arrive safely at the hotel, you can just 'see' where she is and vice versa. My significant other (the wayward 5 years ago) likes it as much or more as I do as he can see where I am. He isn't looking for me cheating just wanting checking in on when I will get home and stuff. Its not at all intrusive if you have nothing to hide. It is not entirely accurate but gets the location down to a few hundred yards.

[This message edited by otter at 12:31 PM, August 25th (Saturday)]

Confused. How are you doing?

It’s been a while. Hope you are getting the support you need.

Just thought I'd bump this thread so we could see what advice you've already received and keep up with your story.

[This message edited by Wool94 at 8:27 AM, September 9th (Sunday)]

You have children.

She has a man that she a can trust.

Any acts she does to cheat not only spits on you but also to your children which is devastating.

If you weren't going to go with her to meet this "friend" and spied it through, the worst that you don't want to admit happening, will actually do. It will suck.

I'm sorry man, life is a bitch and it will never stop trying to hold you down.