SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Bottom line and no matter how confused, there are major red flags..

She has had many trips to the home, i assume without you and some with you? How often do you go with her?

The profession of love from the OM is very disturbing and perhaps this is the tail end..? Maybe there was an EA that she indulged in. The possibilities are endless, but the probability is definitely there for an A of some sort.

The worst part is keeping it from you.

Could she have be insistent on you going with them because you happen to be on this trip?

Tactics so far are good with VARs, keep passwords to everything, GPS if it's your car too... there is software for phone and computer that can track as well. Phone records as others have said are great sources.

For now as others have said just dig and keep quiet until you "hit gold"

If you never find a thing, perhaps there was never an A, you still have work to do on your marriage. You need to communicate your issues ASAP, don't live like this. Perhaps in communicating your issues it might help get you closer to find the truth, maybe she slips up in her communication back to you or she changes for the better.

[This message edited by atreides at 11:51 AM, July 20th (Friday)]

Hi friend and welcome to this fantastic but terrible little club no one wants to join but few regret finding – if they need it!

This site is a great resource, but I think maybe one of its biggest faults is that we can look at a brick and still see infidelity… We are so sensitive to it and maybe it’s because we have been there and seen it go all the way. When we reflect on our own situations we might be thinking why we didn’t notice it when the wife got a new perfume or changed her hairstyle or started yoga or whatever. We suddenly recognize the little, sublime changes that may or may not have been a factor in our wayward spouse’s journey from loving, normal spouse to a cheating, two-timing wayward. However – we tend to see infidelity in EVERYTHING.

Like look at what is shared above: That if she is careless about her phone then that might be an indicator that she’s having an affair. Had she been guarding her phone then that too would be an indicator for an active affair. It’s a no-win situation.

I’m a former cop and part of my training was to learn how to avoid assumptions. You can use assumptions to decide what to look better into but basing a case on assumptions… no… it doesn’t fly. What you share is a bunch of red flags and serious warnings. Enough for you to be concerned. But based on what you share I don’t necessarily want to jump to the conclusion that your wife and OM are meeting at a regular basis at 4 in the evening for extended bouts of extramarital sex.

I think – and you could say I am assuming although I would prefer calling it a deduction – that you might have caught your wife in the early to intermediate stages of an Emotional Affair.

Some of the stuff you describe can be explained as parts of a long-lasting, maybe taken for granted and not nurtured marriage. Like the sex issue.

Some of the things might be explained by former actions and behaviors. Like maybe the old “gang” from HS met at Joes’ Bar and Grill at 4.

But to me it’s clear that there is an unacceptable emotional connection between OM and your W and that IMHO it’s in your best interest to nip it RIGHT NOW.

The problem with EA’s is that people don’t easily recognize or acknowledge them. The concept of EA’s is only about 40 years old, from the 1980’s. If you were to tell your wife that she’s having an affair with OM she would probably not understand what you are talking about. So, my first suggestion would be that you find a copy of Not Just Friends by the late Dr. Shirley Glass. This is the go-to book on EA’s. You can probably download a copy in the next ten minutes. But YOU read it. It should only take a couple of hours.

Once you have done that then I would confront her.

Why? Why not wait for more like all suggest?

Well… EA’s can go to PA’s. I’m willing to place money on the OM wanting more than a friendship. And your W suggestion that she go alone does raise some hairs on the back of my neck. Not necessarily that there is already a PA going on or not even an intention on her behalf to allow this to go there… but AT LEAST a wish to have more freedom to be with OM. This can go from EA to PA while you are fiddling with lost data and VAR’s.

Based on what you share and especially that there have not already been clear sexual texts or messages that the affair hasn’t been consummated. So maybe your W wants to go with OM to a concert. She might not have any intention of allowing this to go too far… It’s all exciting and the band is jamming, and she has some weed and is feeling all nice… OM slips his hand over her ass… she’s OK because after all she isn’t going to do anything, and a little groping is OK isn’t it? OM has had the hots for her for years and hasn’t made any move yet has he? Concert is over, and they have some beers and he has his hand on her knee and they are talking about the good old days, his marriage and how boring you have become… Then its closing time and his place is just around the corner and maybe it’s better she crashes on his couch because she’s had too much to drink to drive home. Wham Bam Thank You Mam! Affair goes from E to P. As in EA to PA.

What would be better for you?

What would better help your marriage?

If you had a choice of confronting with your worried NOW and risking having to spend some time convincing her she was on a slippery slope

Or

Having a recording of her having sex with the OM that you caught on the cleverly placed VAR in her bag?

I would think that IF you had a chance of stopping this NOW you would be in a better place.

Get a VAR and have them in place before confronting. Carry on your plans on recovering her messages. Her responses after confrontation will tell you a lot. But based solely on what you have already shared I think it’s still an EA and you can stop it at that stage.

This is how I would consider confronting:

Simply ask your wife who M**** is.

Tell her that when you looked at her messages (because she handed you the phone) you noticed the conversations and they concerned you. Don’t share any more truths on sources. You can even lie creatively, like that someone warned you about him. You don’t have to explain or justify your questions. Just put them there.

She’s going to tell you it’s all innocent.

So OK – since it’s innocent then is she willing to open the messages and FB with you and you two go through what they have been talking about. If she refuses, then you simply declare that she is having an affair.

If she accepts then go through them together.

Tell her that you fear that she’s having an affair. At this moment don’t define between EA or PA. If she allows you to see the texts AND they are non-sexual then tell her you worry she’s heading that way. If they are sexual… well…

Tell her that you refuse to share your wife. She’s free to be with OM if that’s what she wants, but you deserve she be honest and tell you. If she wants this marriage, then she must recognize that you are concerned and need assurances. That your concerns NOW are not out of place and that your demands might intrude on her privacy but there is too much at stake.

Then ask her to read Not Just Friends.

While she is reading then confront OM. Simply call him and tell him that you have been reading the communications between him and your wife. Ask him what his intentions are. Don’t expect a sensible reply but that’s not really the aim with this conversation. It’s more to let him know you are on to him. If he keeps insisting his intentions are honorable and all that then ask him about the concert tickets. Ask if he thinks it’s OK to ask a married woman to a concert and if your concerns aren’t’ normal. Tell him that you are OK with him being a friend of your wife, but only if you too are involved. You three could go to the concert, you three could meet at the usual place at four…

Then see the reaction. Reaction from OM and more importantly the reaction from your wife.

Finally – what you describe is a normal long-term marriage with its issues. Maybe you and your wife might benefit from some guidance to get out of a rut.

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^!😎

I have to agree with both Bigger and Stevesn here. None of us know for sure but it seems to me that you've potentially caught this before it went into a full-blown PA. Now you can wait to gather evidence as others are suggesting but I would be worried that what you do is allow it to go all the way past what I think is a point of no return for you. As Bigger says she handed you the phone so it doesn't have to seem that clandestine that you saw the messages.

I do think I would hunt around just a bit in her car, gym bag, underwear drawer, etc. for a burner phone. I found one. Lots of folks have found them here.

Given that you have adult children and are very involved with her family she will want to protect her reputation.

There may be other reasons to keep this from coming out but that one is a biggie. She will trickle truth (TT) you big time. Just friends, you’re crazy, etc.

You have received great advice. Act as if everything is normal.

Once you have exhausted your methods of gathering information (i.e. time is going by and you’re getting nothing new) try this:

Have your VARS in place and do a “soft” confront. Let her know you’re suspect something by bringing up something she can easily explain away. Accept whatever she says.

That may get her to talk to people and you can pick it up with your VARs.

The very worst outcome is for you to spend the rest of your life being 90% sure that your wife had an affair.

Purchase VELCRO Hook and Loop Fasteners, Sticky-Back, for less at Walmart.com. Save money. Live better.

Use the velcro to attach the var under her seat UP INSIDE. SECURE IT WELL!!!!!! So well even a big bump wont knock it off. attach one side HD velcro from Walmart to back. USE BIG PIECE

attach other side HD velcro again UP INSIDE car seat. ATTACH THE CRAP out of it. It needs to stay put going over big potholes or railroad tracks.

Buy two VARs for the car so you can switch them out (i.e. take the old on out and put a fresh one in)

Put a third VAR in whatever room she uses to talk in when you are not around. If you are a typical man, use your size advantage to put it someplace she cant reach, even on a chair. Beware spring cleaning season if she does it.

Weightlifter

[This message edited by Michigan at 12:49 PM, July 20th (Friday)]

Hey confused, that is a good nickname as we are were all that at the beginning.

Bigg er is 100% spot on. One thing I can add is that Gmail keeps almost everything that you send or receive.

So if she uses Gmail like a lot of people do, unless she has done the 3 step delete/trash/delete all protocol there is a good chance here and the OM messages are in the trash or all mail. You can find these tabs by scrolling down on the far left side.

I hope the bigger is right and your wife is just not aware that the old friend from college wants to bang her, and that she did not cross the line.

To be honest I have old friends from college who I would love to bang if all were single and others I have no interest in romantically.

Hang in there and keep looking and talking to her

oops double post

oops double post

[This message edited by MickeyBill2016 at 1:24 PM, July 20th (Friday)]

There are so many factors that make it conducive for having an affair that I would be quite impressed if she wasn’t having one.

1. Empty nest

2. Around 40 years old (my guess)

3. Old boyfriend that you already know and are at ease with.

4. Old boyfriend in your hometown. Nostalgic area that reminds you of your youth when you were single. Makes it very easy to compartmentalize a second life when you live somewhere else.

5. Helping a “friend” through his divorce. It’s natural to discuss his marital problems and yours.

Sorry to hear about your situation 'confused'. I'm a little late to the thread but I wanted to say that when after being confronted you see a change in a person's behavior, that's how you know that they're engaged in something that they shouldn't be. Extra sex and leaving the phone available for inspection are signs that she is afraid that you're going to find out what she's been doing. Also know that her behavior is temporary. Once she thinks that things are calmed down and back to normal, she'll start her affair back up again. I'm hoping that you learn the truth and can derail her train. For now though, aside from her coming clean on her own, sleuthing is all you can do. Take care of yourself.

Thanks again everyone this is terrific advice. I am still caught between extremes, I.e.it nothing really and then it's a full blown affair. I'm not rushing into anything until the actually offenses become clearer...I mean I've know this person for over twenty five years and the idea of a complete deception for majority of this times seems implausible, but then again some many tell the same tale, making it completely possible. I appreciate many of those who have advised the soft touch and confront her gently (and her friend, maybe less gently) no matter what happens this will be my preferred method. This whole thing is still in such a random and chaotic stage that I still don't feel like I have enough data to make any judgement. The red flags are there, but some like the intimacy and affection issues have been for a while; we have had many talks about this and once have seen professional help. Some was due to physiological problems. Honestly, intimacy is an important part of marriage and while I am not engaged in the amount that would be good for me, what I have with my wife now is fine with me given what I believed was the problem. However if there is someone else this is the problem. If some if these personal issues are to some form of infidelity, then I need to take action.

I need information now. My biggest dilemma is that I feel guilty in collecting this information; I am prying into my wife's life and what if by some chance it is a misunderstanding. All of the bits of information I have collected so far are disparate and not organized into a cohesive story. I want a clearer picture. She travels a lot, I don't travel much, so I need to know how these trips align with things like the texts. Some of the texting looked editted. I just don't know. I'll look for the burner phones, she knows about sims cards - which surprised me thing morning, I still don't completely get this. I will see if I can examine the phone bill- this is a great idea, but does this also work with Facebook? And My wife does all of the bills, so I will need to find some way of getting access to these accounts. This may seem weird, but I do the cleaning and much of the cooking as well as yard work. I have found some other tools today she has an old iPhone and their will be all the programs in them as her current phone and I think they will be connected and in sinc. and I'll give them a try. One way or another I get some semblance of the truth and then act. Thanks again all and I am sorry that I didn't address each comment personally -- I haven't figured out how to do this directly below the actually comment, maybe next time.

Dude don't feel guilty about prying into your wife's life. You two are married. Her expectation to keep her romantic life private ended when she exchanged vows. She has broken those vows by, at the very least, having an emotional affair with another man. I suspect that it is highly likely (over 90% likely that it is physical at this point since they have meet). If cheaters can meet they almost always take it to the physical level.

Don't ever let her blame this on you. Once you have collected all the evidence you need to make sure she suffers consequences for this. Don't let her blame you for anything. It's not your fault at all. Peace and good luck!

I am prying into my wife's life

There is no such thing. Her life is yours. Yours is hers. You're not an "I" and "her"...you're an "us". Full transparency both ways.

[This message edited by CincyKid at 3:21 PM, July 20th (Friday)]

Do not feell guilty spying. If she had nothing to hide she would have been more forthcoming about her friend.

If she is not being transparent you have every right to spy.

I think that Bigger is right. This may not yet be physical. But emotional affairs beget physical ones. Do as he suggests.

Brother, read Bigger's post again.

This advice is excellent, and I would encourage you to follow it.

Good luck.

Confront. Now. Don't wait to learn more, or confirm anything. Bigger is correct, if this hasn't gone physical, it's headed that way at flank speed. Do you want to listen to your wife getting fucked for possibly the first time by this douchebag on the VAR in her bag and know that it happened while you dithered, wrung your hands, and generally wrote the manual on how to be passively indecisive? Pitch a grenade into their little fantasy world. Recon by fire.

If there was reason to believe this would have been on of their first meetings, I'd agree that you could be able to head off a PA in the making. But they have an established usual time together and your WW travels a lot. Were all of those trips really business trips? Could a few not be?

The confession was 6 months ago and there have been plenty of trips out his way since then. The intimacy trailed off a long time ago but she has also known the OM your whole relationship. The odds just aren't good. Definitely keep snooping.

You can wait, but I would confront before your wife leaves for any sort of trip.

But I have to say I see little profit and immense risk in waiting too long before confronting.

If my evaluation is correct – and it’s totally based on thing you share – then this is an EA. Without minimizing EA’s in any way then IMHO it would be immensely harder for you to recover from a physical affair. Like I outlined in my earlier post then things develop, they happen… Next time your wife meets OM in the flesh she might have no plans or thoughts or intentions of sex or infidelity. Heck… she might even shake off OM advances or not even notice them. But MAYBE it goes too far. MAYBE only kissing and groping. But for you it will be devastating.

You can bet your bottom dollar that the OM will be doing his best to get in your wife’s pants.

Confronting now will prevent that.

What if it’s already physical? Well… I doubt it based on what you share. But if it is then her initial reaction after confrontation will be to get a warning over to OM. That’s why you have your VAR and online access in place.

When you confront you can do so giving minimal info on sources. You can even lie if you want to. This isn’t a court and wounded pride due to a perceived invasion of privacy won’t make what you already know invalid.

Wife – Who is Mxxx and why am I worried about your relationship with him?

How do I know? Remember when I read daughters message on your phone? I saw texts between you two.

How do I know? Let’s just say a mutual friend warned me to look into it.

How do I know? You left your computer open the other day and I needed to check our online banking and I saw messages.

How do I know? That’s not the issue. Who is Mxxx and what is your relationship with him?

Just friends? Nothing inappropriate? Well... why did you suggest I stay at home while you went to the town he lives in?

Just friends? OK – so nothing is going on. Would you be OK with me reading your texts and seeing your conversations on FB?

Am I paranoid? Am I intruding on your privacy? Have you heard of emotional affairs? Here is a great book I want you to read. It will take you an hour to read the first couple of chapters. Do that and let’s talk again after that.

Some good advise from 2 different perspectives... confront now or later.

Based on your title, "confused" is the key mantra here. This tells me something about your resolve and based on your writings vs others you want more red flags and/or proof than say i would. I personally do not need much to "bring down the hammer"

So for those that do suggest now is the time, your resolve comes into question. Bigger could be right that this is a beginning but also it could be an end or a pause. She has gone there enough times without you to have him profess "love to her" and have a "usual place" and her insistence on you going is to enforce the end of whatever was for this trip... but this is all speculation.

If you confront now, you have to have the resolve that she has crossed the line and not budge an inch or she will gaslight you, manipulate you into saying it was innocent and "how dare you!?" If you lose it here, she will lock down her accounts and likely distance herself even further and that will become the excuse she needs if this is a beginning of an A or an End to start or resume.

There is no such thing unfortunately as "soft confrontation" because the implication of cheating is the context and I have never seen anyone take that accusation lightly.

This is why I suggested as with others perhaps quiet for now is good BUT to talk about your issues now that you have without the accusation of cheating and use that path to dig and find more about her feelings. This is a way of getting more without accusing her yet of cheating.

However you can follow Bigger's advise but you must do so without letting her guilt you or manipulate you.. by confronting both as Bigger said and "being friends while you are there" (don't get me started on that, IMO that is already unacceptable, but that is just me as there is no way in hell a guy who professed love for my wife would be "hangout material" in any context)

point is, you need to stick to your guns... but like i said, i am not getting that vibe of resolve from you, i think you are more of the mindset to get more proof, but as Bigger said, you run the risk of it being the start and then becoming more but then again none of us know what the status is.

However.. again I will state, if you confront, follow Bigger's plan to the "T" without flinching.

If she guilt's you and locks down, your chances to get that proof become harder but then again you already have enough IMO to make a credible decision.

In the end this is about you and your resolve on what you can deal with and what you are willing to accept as well.

I wish you all the best

[This message edited by atreides at 8:22 PM, July 20th (Friday)]

BS ONLY

[This message edited by SI Staff at 7:50 PM, May 26th (Sunday)]

How to tell if someone is lying?

In reality you can't. Some are good at it and some aren't. Some can compartmentalize to where you wouldn't know a thing. If they feel your trust is so high they may not even try to hide it much. They feel they are safe.

I've managed as many as 750 people and have had people lie to me (even though I knew the truth based on video surveillance) and I would have believed them.

My sister was a wayward (taught Sunday school) and no one would have ever imagined plus she could lie to your face without flinching.

Evidence is your only answer but don't become paralyzed by analysis and wait to long.