SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Although it's a huge shock I can assure you you'll get through this.

It's not the end of the world.

Knowledge will help take away some of the anxiety. Read up

Alcohol doesn't help so stay away from it.

You'll probably have trouble eating so keep hydrated.

[This message edited by Marz at 10:09 PM, August 26th (Sunday)]

In answer to your original questions, no you are not unreasonable. And yes sometimes living apart can help.

But cmon. She was doing another man for at least half a decade, lied to you daily during that time and expects you to be over it in 2 months? And she is telling you that it wasn't that bad? And is threatening you to jump in the sack with another if you don't meet whatever terms she is setting? And is screaming at you while calling you vile names? And calls you emotionally unavailable for 5 years while simultaneously she is giving her body away to another?

Friend, your wife has toys in her head. Frankly, I see nothing encouraging about any thing she has said or done. The self entitlement is off the scale here. Respecting her pain? For losing her married fuck buddy? For getting caught?

Sometimes it's just right to call it as it is. This train wreck needs to be over. You really need to end it. Sorry.

[This message edited by longsadstory1952 at 10:17 PM, August 26th (Sunday)]

She’s absolutely in no position to dictate to you terms! If she’s not showing remorse and stepping up to fix this mess, file for divorce. You deserve better than this. She needs to earn your respect and trust again. And that doesn’t happen overnight. I feel for you as you want to salvage something from this horrible wreck and she’s making it difficult. It appears you’re doing all the work while she tries to minimise the impact the affair has had on you. An affair that lasted 5 years! Perhaps it will take you five years to get over it. At least. Let her know that a five year deception and betrayal can’t be shrugged under the carpet. If she doesn’t get that, your best option would be to cut her loose.

[This message edited by Mene at 10:22 PM, August 26th (Sunday)]

From your description, basically what she is saying is the following: "You were a crappy husband. So crappy that I have claimed a unilateral hall pass. And my hall pass remains open until you fix yourself to my satisfaction."

You may wish to get rid of the MC and your wife get an IC to do the work to become a safe spouse. You need IC to process the pain and trauma or as your wife wishes to enable you to commit to the marriage. This is may be the only commitment that you may can make right now. You will have to make this decision.

It is my opinion that your wayward wife is wanting to rug sweep the affair. What your MC is suggesting is the very essence of rug sweeping the adultery in my opinion.

Rugsweeping is a form of denial. It is fake. It is named after the idea of sweeping dirt under the rug, so that it’s not really clean at all…just hidden. Basically, one or both spouses pretend that everything is back to normal. The issues in the marriage are not addressed. There is no work done by the wayward spouse so that cheating is not an option. When the situation or stimulus occurs infidelity transpires.

Rugsweeping may produce resentment in the betrayed spouse and one day they have had enough and end the marriage.

I suggest you have none of the attempt to rugsweep her infidelity.

It will take 2 to 5 years to heal. Once your world has been blown to hell who knows exactly what should be done and how long it will take to heal from the trauma.

Regarding the separation please follow the advice of legal counsel.

Please understand it is a very real possibility that with the separation you will be so far gone you never wish to go back. Also, it seems your wife has not done the work and her wayward behavior may return.

Please keep us posted. We are here for you as you journey out of infidelity. I feel your goal should be to not only survive but one day thrive. I know right now it does not seem realistic. One day perhaps it will.

After thinking about your wife's demand it really caused me great concern. I suggest you tell her you are re-committing to the marriage and one of the requirements of reconciliation is she do the work so that adultery is no longer an option for her. She needs to get into IC. I would also have her read

1) How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair by Linda MacDonald

2) Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass

Your WS should start with How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair if she has not done so already. Then have a discussion with her following each chapter on how she is going to implement what she has read.

I think I would work her ass off in reconciliation. Forgive me if my post is over the top given the original questions you asked. It is coming from a perspective of pain and anger after reading you thread.

I will say I do feel the effort and responsibility for success or failure of healing the marriage is with your wayward wife. Somehow making her do the work or acknowledge she is not able to seems like a thought worth consideration by you. You can always separate later or end the marriage if things do not work out if it is a dealbreaker for you.

What is your opinion?

I'm going to be blunt here, your WW carried her A for almost half a decade, that's more like a double life, full of lies and laughing behind your back, according to her it started at the time she should have been focused of caring for her newborn (talk about priorities), yes you need to DNA your child, and you both need to get tested for STD's. At this point your WW is not even remorseful, she's most likely still pining for OM and deep in the affair fog.

I'm always open for Rs but not when it comes to LTAs and 4.5 is more than the average LTA, moreover sounds that your WW has been "receptive" to the neighbors advances (possible serial cheater), instead of begging you for forgiveness she's threatened to have another affair soon if you don't forgive her now, she submitted you to years of the ultimate betrayal, inside jokes (neighbors included) and humiliation, it's just too much, years of lies, deception, risking your life with STDs, etc., she doesn't even sound shameful enough, have you EXPOSE her to family and close friends, if not do it TODAY.

If you still decide to give R a shot (I don't think she deserves it), tell her point blank today, that the average for recovery takes 2-5 years (half the time of her A as a minimum), and that if she's not willing to do the heavy lifting during this time (she does not seem to want to do so and instead resume or have other As), you will just file for D.

Honestly your M was fairly young when your WW started to willingly and eagearly spread her legs and allow OM to penetrate her vagina, she consciously continue to do so for years with total disregard for you and her children's future and stability, wedding anniversaries, birthdays, holidays, in your own home, etc., ask yourself can you really get past that, I would certainly NOT, please file for D and get out of infidelity one way or another, you can stop it at anytime if she shows true remorse and BEGS for forgiveness, apologize to you and your family, stops putting the blame on you, etc., don't stay just for the kids, their lives will be miserable in a broken marriage, co-parenting may be a better option for them.

I don't think her intentions are malicious, just self-serving

Does not matter; her intentions are self-serving, wrong, and cruel (to you).

She calls you a selfish prick? - pot meet kettle.

I think a separation would be good for you. I also agree with the posters who suggested to ditch MC and to start IC. I would suggest IC for her as well, but I don't think she'll go; it doesn't fit her narrative. TBH, from what you have written, there's no you in her narrative at all.

Please take care of yourself....

Unspecified,

Your WW is still trying to manipulate you, and banking on your good, caring, and considerate nature to give way to her.

Give up that Politically Correct shite. She disrespected you, and gave zero, zilch consideration to you and the OBS when she had her A.

For any relationship to work, consideration must be a two way thing. If it is only one party that is considerate, then it is no longer a relationship that is worth having.

If your WW is really remorseful, she would be moving heaven and earth to fix this. The very fact shat she can goad you by saying that she may not be able to wait that long for you, shows her lack of respect and empathy for you. You are not worth waiting for, nor doing any work for. All you are good for is to pay her bills, and comfort her when her boyfriend cannot.

Any memories you have that are good, are now tainted. Did she really love me? Yes, she probably did, because you gave her stability. She did not love you, but loved the thought of stability. It could have been anyone, you just so happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time....

I think its normal to be on the fence 2 months out.

You arent in limbo with the affair still ongoing, as far as you know. You all are trying to work towards r but you are understandably not happy with progress so far. You see some progress by your WS but you also see some selfish, entitled, and dysfunctional behavior too. So you aren't committed to r totally because you see the risks of taking d off the table and deciding r is the only route forward while she's as she is.

With my ww I gave her timelines. 3 mo, 6 mo, a year. I told her I'd remain open to r as long as I saw substantial progress at each checkpoint. If I saw little, none, or not enough then I'd be forced to reconsider my commitment to r.

I also feel mc is a bad choice. The m isn't the problem. The problem is she cheated. That's the crisis. After the crisis sure, work on the m together. Bi right now she and her poor decisions/choices, her lack of boundaries, etc are the issue. That's not mc, that's individual counseling - for her. After (and if) she's found her why, fixed her behaviour and thought processes, shored up boundaries - and other marriage items persist, the maybe mc. But not now.

[This message edited by william at 7:06 AM, August 28th (Tuesday)]

So you and your wife agreed that you were emotionally unavailable due to burn out from your job. So instead of being supportive she goes and spreads her legs for a mutual friend who is also your sons best friends dad? Oh and she did this for FOUR AND A HALF YRS!!!???

Now she is threatening to find another man to spread her legs for if you don't get with her program and rug sweep this sham of a marriage?

And "you're a selfish prick"?

She's looking for a new guy to spread her legs for? Help her out. Get a list together of your sons other friends fathers and hand it to her along with D papers and don't ever look back.

I'll be honest with you... after reading through your other thread, I don't believe this relationship has EVER been satisfying for you. It was rocky in the beginning, stressful in the middle, and has entered the realm of overtly painful and scarring. This woman has actively cheated on you for more than a third of your marriage, and YOU are the one feeling guilty like it was all your fault??? Seriously, that's not remorse, it's not even regret.

I'm nearly 4 years into R now, and like many here, I can tell you that the first year seems to be all about just absorbing the shock and getting our bearings. In the first year, we typically start down the path to R or D with quite a lot of ambivalence. That's NORMAL. In the second year, we tend to deal with the reality which has been thrust upon us. We work through the pain, reevaluate our position, and feel our feelings. The second year, in many ways, is tougher. We've put the initial fires out, but there's all this work to be done cleaning up. And frankly, sometimes we decide it's just not worth the effort because we can no longer see anything of value in the WS.

I think if it weren't for the family dynamic, you'd have probably left this controlling, gaslighting WW long ago, probably even before you discovered the cheating. And I think it's completely okay for you to explore that. You can still be a great dad to your kids and NOT have to deal with a person who abuses your psyche on a daily basis. A divorce reshapes the family dynamic, yes. But you and your kids would still be a strong family unit if you continue to feed and sustain a good relationship with your children.

If your WW isn't willing to pursue you with whatever effort is necessary, you're not going to want her by the time you get to the REAL "cleaning up" phase. She'll have done too much additional damage, very much as she is right now, blaming you for her own immoral choices and threatening you with being "worried she'll find someone else in the meantime".

All these things come back to bite you as you're processing the trauma, and even at times when you feel like you're past the initial shock... the processing isn't done. There will come a time when you'll need to tally up EVERYTHING she's done to keep you, and it's not going to be enough at this rate.

All that to say... if you need a therapeutic separation, take it. Underneath it all, I think what you're looking for is a test of your WW's resilience in the face of losing you. And... I think you're absolutely right to test that before making any further commitment. If she's unable to earn another chance with you, you'll find it out now rather than another 10-20 years from now.

Do what is best for you. See an attorney before you make changes in your living situation. Don’t buy into any shared responsibility nonsense. Her decision to cheat was unilateral. Based on what you have written, she is not a good candidate for reconciliation.

when do you plan on seeing the divorce attorney ?

4.5 years with a close friend and unremorseful does not make her safe or a good partner for you.

Her reactions to you and actions after being discovered shows that she doesn't care about you or your feelings. Don't be content with losing the house. Why should you ? You didn't do anything wrong, despite your self blame which is troubling.

Did the OBS take Mr. Scumbag back ?

This has been really helpful, but so painful.

Honestly, I was hesitating posting here because sometimes the tone of the forums seemed too negative. I realize now that I have been rug sweeping myself. At the end of the day, she has been so selfish - throughout the marriage, throughout the past 4.5 years, throughout the past 2 months. When it comes to important matters, she tends to put her needs ahead of others, to a fault. I could handle that in the context of a generally functioning marriage, but not in the context of the lies, deception, and gaslighting.

We've had so many discussions in the past eight weeks that I realize were fundamentally absurd. Convincing her the affair is an offence against me and the kids ("It wasn't about you!"). Convincing her it's normal to expect remorse from her. Convincing her that honesty is a fundamental building block of any marriage ("I think that depends").

After I knew she was cheating, but days before I revealed this to her, I developed some urinary symptoms I thought might be STI related. We were travelling; medical care was not straightforward at the time. I asked her directly if there was any chance, under the sun, that I might have an STI. She laughed it off - "I promise you there's no reason, there will never be a reason." I wasted an day of my trip getting tested because of her. Fucking urethral swabs are routine in that country - unbelievably painful. She put her need to fuck her AP in front of my health.

After the affair blew up - she still denies I was ever at risk of STIs. She put her trust in the douchebag AP (who didn't wear condoms by the way) ahead of her own common sense.

The worst part is watching her lie to herself. Last night, she cracked, momentarily. She told me she knows our marriage was a good one, but she just can't face that because it is too difficult to accept that she destroyed something fundamentally good. She says it makes her suicidal. So instead, the gaslighting, the attacks on my character and on our marriage.

There is so much truth in your replies. I've come to realize that I don't just want some emotional space, I want out. I want a separation. Therapeutic or not, I can't handle any more of this. I can't reconcile with someone who would rather break me to pieces than face her own demons.

But I am afraid of D. Terrified. I can't think about alimony and not become enraged. No fault here, and a massive income difference because she cheated through my medical training and doesn't work much herself. I will be paying through my nose to someone who cheated on me. I might be unable to reduce my hours - a key part of my own recovery from burnout - because of the financial stress, child support and alimony. It's unthinkable.

But as someone remarked, information is power here. I've finally received a few lawyer referrals and I'm hoping some cold, hard facts will let me begin to move forward.

Thanks everyone.

So she knows the M was actually good.....but simply cannot bring herself to face and deal with that truth and what she has done?

Simply tell her she is more than welcome to live in her world of lies......but she will be doing it alone.

You absolutely refuse to live in that world with her.....and will be removing yourself from it ASAP.

If seeing you actively leaving her doesn’t wake her up to do what she must in order to even attempt R......then NOTHING will at this point, and you will need to continue with D in order to save your own sanity.

Hey there. When you see your lawyer, ask about the alimony as well. My understanding is that some places base it on what she could earn, not necessarily what she is earning. So it might not be as bad as you think.

Good luck... I hope you find the peace you are looking for. This is not easy stuff.

The anxiety of the unknown.

Knowledge can help that.

There is almost no scenario where you would be better off staying with this toxic self-centered manipulator.

You sound like you are thinking clearly and your last couple of posts show a clarity that will help you move through the pain of divorce and get on to living a better life with someone who actually cares about you instead of using you and destroying your soul to save herself.

damn Booyah. Ouch but decisive and truth !!

Unspecified, and I understand his fears, needs to move on from this nightmare of a wife IMO

I wish him the best of luck