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Have to agree, I wouldn’t even consider R without total commitment to those three things.

What do I need to be wary to overlook, in my 180 fixation, as signs that there is legitimate long term possibility for R?

Look for these things:

access to devices, promising me she will never cheat again, and honoring NC with POSOMXBF

Sorry to be so glib. In all seriousness, the above are deal breakers and should not divert you from your path.

A truly remorseful WW will exhibit these characteristics.

- She would be inconsolable with the thought of how she was the cause of so much pain to the person she loves most in the world.

- she would be begging to know what she could do to make it right.

- for you she would want to let everyone know it was her that screwed up, not you.

- she would want to read books on how to support her BS. She proactively orders them and starts reading. She actively discussed what she is reading

- she would be in IC as much as possible to figure out what went wrong with her and how she could do this to the person she loves most in the world. She proactively schedules this for herself and also proactively asks her therapist for IC recommendations for you to help you deal with the pain she has caused.

- she would feel your pain more than her own and put your happiness ahead of hers.

- she would follow your lead when it comes to intimacy, trying to figure out what you need to feel connected again

- she will gladly answer your questions at any time day or night with no objections

- she would write you a letter of apology highlighting how she must have made you feel

- she would proactively put together a comprehensive plan to repair the M and help you heal

- she would focus most on your well being, ignoring her own

- she would realize what the OM really is and start being sick at the thought of him/her. She would start calling him/her names like POS for how he helped her destroy her life.

- They show remorse thru actions, not words. Examples of this could be that they proactively prepared a written timeline of what happened and are as thorough and factual as they can be.

- Other examples are: They book a polygraph when you are available to attend. And they buy a GPS tracker for their car so they can give you peace of mind. They sell something of value to only them to pay for these things so the cost doesn't come from your joint funds (e.g. Collectibles or jewelry or exercise equipment).

If they are only showing Regret and not Remorse then they will only be giving you words, not actions: e.g. "I'm so sorry. But you can trust me now. I promise you I've told you the whole truth: e.g. "You can trust me now. I love you. It didn't mean anything. I know I messed up - do you forgive me? I was so stupid, but I've learned from my mistakes. It's in the past now and we can move forward. I love you more now than I ever have. I promise it will never happen again, can we move on?"

Finally. THE EFFORT PUT INTO RECONCILIATION! If the betrayer doesn't work harder at repairing the relationship than they did to damage it, it isn't going to work no matter if you stay together or not. They need to be working harder at R than you are.

I have felt like WS has flirted with true remorse at times, she has often pledged to be willing to do anything (except for three glaring things - access to devices, promising me she will never cheat again, and honoring NC with POSOMXBF)

Unfortunately, what you are probably witnessing in not remorse, but hope….in your own mind. You want soooo badly to see real remorse and contrition from your partner(as did we), that you misconstrue meaningless gestures as some sort of genuine response.

What do I need to be wary to overlook, in my 180 fixation, as signs that there is legitimate long term possibility for R?

If she becomes material for R, it is her business to get through to you. Don't worry about it, don't wait for it.

she has often pledged to be willing to do anything (except for three glaring things - access to devices, promising me she will never cheat again, and honoring NC with POSOMXBF), and often has made very welcome and endearing guestures.

Oh please RUN from this cheater as fast as you can and don't look back, really !!! let me translate this for you: "Yes I will R but I will keep cheating on you and NO you cannot see any of my devices you just have to trust me wink wink, oh and yes I will keep banging POSOMXBF". RUN don't walk.

If she won't give you access to everything - or be willing to do all that you request, she is not ready to reconcile. She is missing her life before the affair was found out.

Don't settle for second best....you certainly deserve to be treated better than she has treated you.

The 180 has been known to help throw the WS out of their fog - even though it is more to help you detach. Keep doing the 180 and take it day by day. Be prepared to finish the divorce though - you can always stop the proceedings if she comes to her senses.

Remember that separation is not just for you, it is for her to go ahead and live the life she "thinks" she wants. At this point as hard as it will be you need to just allow her to totally screw up her own life, it is her choice, she has been making that choice behind your back for quite awhile now and you just can't fix her or change or or make her think correctly.

Bigger wrote a great post, go back and read that again. He is always spot on.

And just know that this drama you are in can only exist if you as the BS continue to stay in the game. We use the phrase on here that an affair is really a 3 legged stool, with the BS being the 3rd leg, you need to take yourself out of the equation totally.

I know you have filed for D, but the part where you have to detach yourself from those around you who are toxic is the hardest part. We are so used to talking to, emailing to, texting to, getting advice from ALL of these people. It takes a huge amount of humility and courage within yourself to truly believe that your decisions are the correct and healthy ones for you and your children. You are basically going ahead and cutting the cord but knowing that it will take time and distance to finally get to a cure for this disease of infidelity.

This stuff is deep and disturbing, I have been around toxic people and have had to detach or cut myself off from some of them because of it. Strength in doing the right thing is not always easy, but believe in yourself that what THEY are doing is completely wrong and keep working with your IC to help you stay sane and stay on your course for getting out of infidelity.

If you reread your last post, you might realize how illogical this sentence is:

I have felt like WS has flirted with true remorse at times, she has often pledged to be willing to do anything (except for three glaring things - access to devices, promising me she will never cheat again, and honoring NC with POSOMXBF), and often has made very welcome and endearing gestures.

Willing to do ANYTHING and then a list of things exempt from “anything”?

Really?

That’s like an alcoholic trying to be sober by committing to stay off vodka but sticking to gin.

Lets look at the three things she refuses:

It’s not the access to devices that’s an issue but rather what her refusal signifies. It signifies a refusal for accountability. She could or could not be getting relationship advice from OM and you wouldn’t know. Even if she wasn’t your understandable insecurities and doubts would hinder reconciliation. Considering R is tough then it’s like trying high-jumping while carrying a car-battery.

Heck… she could give you access to her phone and tablets and what not but keep a hidden burner-phone. Or walk to the pay-phone down the road. But her refusal simply tells me she refuses accountability.

Promising to never cheat again is an empty promise. I wouldn’t request that. By marrying you she promised to be faithful. If you two commit to REAL reconciliation then by default you work at infidelity-proofing your marriage as well as possible. A promise now has less value than the calories spend moving her mouth to make that promise.

Refusing NC… That’s the big one. By refusing NC she’s telling you as loudly as she can that she won’t reconcile. She values OM over the marriage. Over you.

Look – I place emphasis on clear messages and using clear words. I hate innuendo and sublime messages. But they exist… we all send unclear messages. Sometimes you need to consider all the actions and all the words to understand the message.

Like if you are walking down the road with your friend talking about football and all of a sudden he smacks you with his fist… How would you react? He acts all surprised and says he’s sorry and you two walk along talking about the game and WHAM! Again! At what point would you realize that walking next to this guy wasn’t about football? When would you insist he keeps five yards from you?

That’s your wife. She is telling you more with her refusals than she is telling you with her actions and words of remorse. Listen to her.

G Minor,

I few suggestions:

Keep the 180 going.

Let your lawyer do ALL your talking at this point, keep it detached.

And now the most devastating question that anyone has every brought up to me, is there any reason to doubt the paternity of your kids? You are their father, you raised them and all that, that I get, but that may be a question for the lawyer to ask, just to shake her up if nothing else.

I realize that's not exactly a "soup question", and sorry for bringing it up. I ask this because of your original post, and the extreme FOO issues she was brought up with. This may not be her first extracurricular activity, stranger things have happened.

Wow. There are no other pledges that would matter that didn't follow those three. There is no remorse or sincere desire for R without all of those being offered with grace and humility. To suggest that she would consider almost anything but remove those from the equation is everything you need to know.

(except for three glaring things - access to devices, promising me she will never cheat again, and honoring NC with POSOMXBF)

Deal breaker, still in the fog. That's a no-go scenario on R. Laughable. I wouldn't even consider it.

She’ll so ANYTHING! Except the 3 most important things you need to her to do.

If you are going to recover it’s going to be on HER terms. Good luck.

Sorry man but you are trying to see something that isn't there.

Basically she's willing to let you stay married to her on her terms.

A better life awaits you. Don't spend time on a fruitless venture.

Life is too short.

I agree with the three things being an absolute R dealbreaker (even one would be).

I am sure STBXWW is still involved with POSOMXBF. Her behaviour wouldn't make sense if this weren't the case. She can have him.

As for my kids, there is no doubt that my son is mine, he is my clone, warts and all. As for my 14 year old daughter, I would claim her regardless. She is amazing. Frankly, I don't want to know for sure.

Best wishes to everyone, and thanks again for all your advice and support. I am sure this ride isn't nearly over yet, but I am feeling much, much better.

I agree with the three things being an absolute R dealbreaker (even one would be).

I am sure STBXWW is still involved with POSOMXBF. Her behaviour wouldn't make sense if this weren't the case. She can have him.

As for my kids, there is no doubt that my son is mine, he is my clone, warts and all. As for my 14 year old daughter, I would claim her regardless. She is amazing. Frankly, I don't want to know for sure.

Best wishes to everyone, and thanks again for all your advice and support. I am sure this ride isn't nearly over yet, but I am feeling much, much better.

Youll be fine long term.

A hard 180 and you'll get through this better and quicker

Good luck to you and keep posting, you may want to visit the Divorce/Separation forum here in SI for guidance and support.