SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

If you're at the point where you are constantly worried that she is breaking NC by hiding behind her work device, or using separation as an opportunity to rekindle the A, then you have a WW who intends to continue cheating. Do yourself a favor and get out of infidelity.

I want to take a moment to thank all of you. Such an amazing network of people from the most horrible side of life. You all give me hope, which has been in short supply lately.

Because I had access to so many of their calls, I have a pretty damn good idea of the arc of the affair. It was hardly glamorous. Two exceptionally damaged people, trying to find their way out of desperately painful situations. Seeking different selves through disillusion, he to be a desirable partner, her to be something - anything - other than the perfect wife, mother, boss, daughter, sister.

Through it, they would fight and reconcile. Their was one point where she said "I fucking hate you so much, I never want to see you again, but he's out of town for another two days, are you coming over or not??"

Her statement makes me think that he was conflicted; she was not. Just sayin'.

Continued...

He always fought for our marriage to her. His sin was hubris...he will never find out, this isn't affecting your M by any other way than by giving you what you need, so you can figure out how to rebuild.

By retaliating against him I damage his kids, who I love dearly. They were given back to him with sole custody to escape a physically and sexually abusive situation with their stepfather, and I think he was crushed that his ex chose this stepfather over him. I don't think I have it in me to inflict more damage to that situation.

For her, she had fo lie to herself that she loved him to excuse her actions. I think if he were to have lied to her and told her that was real, she would have D me to M him. She was pursuing the light instead of realizing the true nature of the dark and selfish actions she was justifying. He would never allow that lie, and promised exactly what he was...a philandering piece of shit, and that I was her future.

So now, I do think the A may be truly over, and WS is in such pain for the true loss of the disillusioned love and for inflicting the damage that they both believed would never come to me. I worry tremendously that she will do something to harm herself deliberately, and it makes me question the traditional wisdom her of serving her papers to force her to be remorseful or lose everything.

It gets even worse.

My friend group, adopted through my BF, all knew about the A. Said nothing to me. They prioritized this fucker getting his dick wet than preventing, or at least disrupting, a life ruination event for all involved. They are all dead to me now.

My one other lifelong friend, the one that introduced me to my wife, the one that was there with me for DDay and all the aftermath, has just been diagnosed with MS. His coping mechanism is to drink himself into a coma every night. Unfortunately, he became pissed at me because I have not been able to be there for him, and has decided in his drunken wisdom that the best way to get back at me is to tell WS all of the rageful things I said immediately after DDay, which helps to explain how much my WS fears MY attempt at R is false. I have had to cut him off entirely, blocked all contact, I just can't fucking deal with that shit on top of everything else.

So much pain in this goddamn world. I just can't seem to make any sense of anything right now.

[This message edited by GMinor23 at 2:25 PM, October 29th (Monday)]

I'm really sorry about your situation G. I do hope the best for you.

He always fought for our marriage to her. His sin was hubris...he will never find out, this isn't affecting your M by any other way than by giving you what you need, so you can figure out how to rebuild.

He wasn't doing you any favors by sleeping with your wife. You are still letting him off the hook somewhat but it doesn't really matter. He is not your wife. I do think he has to be completely out of your life as does this group of "friends" that condoned it. This is all such a mess I am truly sorry for you. I understand if you think your WW is truly suicidal then she needs help to cope with whatever outcome happens here but I don't think you can take that on as a cause for you to stay with her. You do not have to sacrifice your life to her, to the POSOM, to anyone else. You need to look after yourself. If your WW didn't weigh all of the consequences of her actions when she was having the A if she were to get caught that is on her isn't it? It is not on you now to say "well she didn't know how bad this would be so I'll give her a pass".

It sounds to me like you know that your WW is more in pain over the loss of the OM than the pain she caused you. That alone would be enough for me to move on. It also sounds like you are going to be starting over in a lot of areas beyond your Marriage like all of your friends. You need to decide if dragging her along with you is the best way for you to heal.

Sometimes we have to reset life. You need to accept that your “friends” are about 11 years old emotionally. This means starting again away from them. Lots of studies have shown that peer groups really do impact the way we think and act. Not a single one of them needs to be in your life.

I am so sorry for the problem you have with your one true friend. His diagnosis is scaring him and he is lashing out at you. Try to be a friend to him. Visit and just be there for him. People can live for years with MS. I know a woman who was diagnosed nearly 30 years ago and except for a small limp has no other symptoms.

Your wife needs to read about Limerence

I’m dealing with almost exactly this right now. It sucks. Terminate contact with the friend.

Gminor,

There is a book I read called Not “Just Friends” by Shirley Glass . It was a real eye opener for me. Sometimes we have to start over with friends. This friends group is not a safe place for you as they are not a friend of the marriage, but more importantly, they are not your friend. They did not have your back. This to me is the essence of true friendship.

It sounds that there is an intertwining codependency in your friend group and marriage that isn’t healthy. Hopefully IC will help you with that. It’s unfortunate the situation your “friend” has caused in his life by poor choices, but it’s not your responsibility to fix it.

You have gotten some good advice here .

G

So much going on here, it f’ing makes my head spin. I can only imagine what it does to yours.

So I want to try and take a little piece at a time. See if maybe you can focus your efforts and get to where you want to go.

1) First of all, answer me (you) this. If you had a truly remorse WW, focused only on you and healing your M, would you want to try (only try as its never certain) to reconcile.

If not, and what she did is a deal breaker, don’t lead her on, file for divorce and get her and you into IC.

2) But if yes, then sit down and have a talk with her. Ask her what she wants. What she really wants. If she’s says you, tell her that will come at a cost to her current lifestyle. That she just can’t go back to her former life and still have you. Truly have you.

So after telling her that, then ask her again if it’s you she wants. If she can’t say yes then go back to #1 above and get with the lawyer and begin to move on.

3) but if it’s still yes then tell her that there is a chance you may never forgive this, but if she’s truly willing to work on it and wants to rebuild what she destroyed it’s going to take these things at a minimum to make this happen:

- never contact the AP again. Ever. If she does the D papers you will have drawn up anyway will be signed and served

- tell you each time he tries to contact her. You will reply to him, she will not be allowed to

- if she hasn’t already, document the entire affair to you. Each time they were together, what they did, where they did it. Etc. you’ll read it when you are ready.

- write a letter to you telling you why she wants you and not him. If she wants him at all she might as well not even try to R. It won’t work.

- each and every one of her friends who knew about the A, and didn’t try and stop it, will be blocked from her contact forever. She needs new friends. None of them are her friend. They let her hurt herself and her husband. If she had a gun and they knew she was going to go home and try and kill you, would they stop it or encourage it. I see this as the same thing. She has to know they are now all dead to her. If she can’t handle it, or live up to that, she might as well not even try you R. Those people helped hurt the man she supposedly loves. She shouldn’t want them in her life.

- tell her family and yours what she did and apologize to them for it. Ask them to support you as she try’s to help you heal.

- intense IC. Twice a week. For a year at least. Figure out what was missing from her life to make her think this was all ok.

- spend time only with you for the next 6 months. No going out with coworkers or friends that knew nothing of the A. Focus on her immediate family.

- help you heal thru all triggers and pain. Takes full responsibility for what has damaged your M. Tells you daily/weekly why she wants to stay in it.

- if she is not able to be transparent with her work phone she should find a new job where she doesn’t have on. For god sakes how serious is she about making you feel safe? If she wants to do this for you, she will. I assume she didn’t work with the AP. If she did she quits immediately. If she didn’t and still wants to stay there she needs to explain to them what happened and why she can no longer have a phone that her husband cannot see. If she doesn’t want to do that then it’s best to let her know that’s a deal breaker and wish her well in her life.

G, if she’s not serious about this then you might as well not try. She needs to be serious. Go over to the Wayward side forum and read what truly remorseful WS’s are doing to try and save their marriages. They are doing everything they can and still most of them will fail.

If your WW is not even willing to do at least the above things for you then I’d say don’t waste your time.

But if she is, then I’d say it’s worth making the effort yourself, at least until you can figure out if her actions are a deal breaker to you.

Finally, notice I focused on her. That’s what you should be focusing on too. Only the relationship between you and her. Nothing else. Simplify your life. Besides your kids only focus on what is between the two of u.

That means you tell the AP POS exBF that you probably will never talk to him again and you do t want to hear from him unless you have a question for him. Put him out of your mind for now. Your family is in crisis. Focus only on that. He’s a big boy. He has to learn to live with what he has done. If he were a real human being he’d confess to his wife. Yes you should tell her but I won’t push you on that for now.

So only focus on what’s between you and your WW. Start by determining where you stand on R. Then ask where she stands. Tell her what it’s going to take to even attempt R and she if she’s still ALL IN.

Your lives will be completely different than they were before. She will never again be able to have male friends. She’s not trustworthy. It will take years if IC for both of you before you’ll even feel safe to let her go out to a restaurant with female friends. This is just the way it is, it’s not me being harsh.

Your M will be different if you R. In some ways better. In some ways worse. Many here are in that place today and can tell you what it will be like 1-2-5-10 years down the line. Is it worth it? Usually the answer is YES and NO.

I hope my thoughts were helpful. People here give advice from experience. Listen to them. You are a good guy, but none of us are unique.

I wish you well.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 5:13 PM, October 29th (Monday)]

Oh and one more thing to add to the list. She has to Bring you and the M to the top of the totem pole of importance. No more focusing on her FOO and people going to jail.

If you and the M aren’t the most important thing, in fact THE ONLY THING, then it won’t work. These are the cold hard truths of infidelity.

You both need to decide if each other and the M are the most important things in the world to you. If they are, then treat them as such. This is not a game. This is not children’s play.

To make it work you both have to be dead serious about it.

Because I had access to so many of their calls, I have a pretty damn good idea of the arc of the affair. It was hardly glamorous. Two exceptionally damaged people, trying to find their way out of desperately painful situations. Seeking different selves through disillusion, he to be a desirable partner, her to be something - anything - other than the perfect wife, mother, boss, daughter, sister.

GMinor23

Unfortunately, he became pissed at me because I have not been able to be there for him, and has decided in his drunken wisdom that the best way to get back at me is to tell WS all of the rageful things I said immediately after DDay, which helps to explain how much my WS fears MY attempt at R is false.

GMinor23

The good news, if there is any, is that both you and your wife are playing with a full deck. By that I mean that all the secrets are out (all the cards on the table). Most couples don’t have this. Most of the time secrets take years to come out if they ever do..

Life isn’t fair. But you’re both adults and can make your moves with your eyes open. Hope or pray for wisdom.

I have read your entire post and out of all the advice given I agree with Cooley2here. "Sometimes we have to reset life." I totally agree, you need to reset everything:

1. Start with your friend. I don't care if he has been your "bosom buddy" since the day you were born and saved your life a dozen times; HE IS NOT YOUR FRIEND. A friend would not sleep with your wife. A friend would not lie, deceive, and manipulate you so he could have sex with your wife. Cut him totally off as well as all the other "friends" that knew about the affair. They do not care about you and probably were very amused that you didn't know what was going on right under your nose. You would have been appalled if you had been privileged to the gossip they shared and laughed about at your expense. Get rid of them all and cultivate a new circle of friends.

2.You have a wife that does not love you. It doesn't matter how much you love her and do for her you can't make her love you. Here is advice I would give anyone. Never stay with someone that doesn't love you because it will eventually suck the life right out of you. I would be willing to bet good money on two things presently. What she feels for you is sooo much less than what she feels for the AP. I would not be at all surprised if they are having daily contact in some way. She is pretending to move toward R and manipulating the course of events because her lawyer has told her she may come out of a divorce on the short end. Why waste your life on her when there are so many other women that would gladly take her place. If she wants the AP then tell her to pack her bags and you will call him to come and pick her up. Just let you know were you can have the divorce papers served to her. They both need to be assured that, if you chose, you can burn their entire world to the ground and leave their life in ashes. You can't bargain with infidelity. You either fight it to win or lay down and accept defeat.

3. Reset your life and start all over with just your children and your family. Cut everyone else loose.

4. Listen to these people on SI. Most of them have been there, done that and have the T-shirt.

I do wish you well.

You act like he's some kind of hero that's championing for your marriage.

[This message edited by GoldenR at 7:02 PM, October 29th (Monday)]

I don't post much, but in this case....... A reset of everything and everyone in your life is in order here. Trusted family and your kids will get you through.

There is no one sided R. She us either in or not. Your desire for R cant bring her to the table. If you are concerned with cutting off the "BF" will allow the A to continue then she was not committed to R. You will know whether or not she is ready. You know you really do. Take good care of yourself and be there for your kids

GM23, 2X4 coming your way.

Your last post reeks of excuse for the WW and your 'BF'.

From what you have written, you seem to be making excuses for them, saying how broken they are, how it would damage their lives if you D, how in pain they were, et al.

Focus on yourself. Your own healing. Calm the mind-storm you are experiencing. Your kids need you to be centered. Your kids are guaranteed to be in your future, not your WW, not your 'BF'. They will need you to help them grow up to become great people.

Your WW on the other hand, she should be the one bending over backwards to win you back! The very fact that she still kept in touch with your 'BF', after DDay, shows you how little respect she has for you!

You nailed it on the head that she contacted him on the pretense of finding out how to heal you, but in actuality, she was trying to dive deeper into the A. No if or buts there. That was her true motive.

As for NC between them..... I think not. As you have mentioned, she can easily use her work to communicate with him. I highly doubt it is over, from what you have posted, she does not seem like she has any remorse. Actually, the OM seems to have more remorse.... just a wild thought, maybe D your WW and R with your 'BF', as he seems to get it.

Serve her with the D papers. You will then see what she wants. If it is truly a R she seeks, and is willing to work for it (and she WILL have to work for it, like she has never worked before), then you can stop the process. If she is still sitting on the fence, then you keep the D train running.

Go deaf on her, but watch what she does. All the sounds coming out of her mouth will mean nothing, as cheaters lie a shedload. The WS are the ones that need to work to EARN the BSs trust back, as they are the ones who shattered it. If your WW is not willing to do the work, then I would say that your chances of a successful R, is a big, fat nil.

Your WW needs consequences. Because she won't let you see and monitor her work device, she needs to hand it in to HR with her letter of resignation. Then she needs to start looking for a new job that doesn't involve having a device with confidential information on it so you can't look at it.

Let that sink in.

If she won't do it then you know where you stand in the hierarchy. Not first, that's for sure.

If you can't demand that of her, then you are 100% completely codependent. You will always put your own needs behind hers. You will be used and abused even if you try to R, because you set yourself up for it.

You need to get to work on yourself in therapy. This is not to blame you for her behavior, but because you seem to have never learned how to stand up for yourself and stop giving other people the benefit of the doubt. You need to strengthen your own love for YOU.

Part of my police training back in the days was water-rescue. A key factor in rescuing people from drowning was to recognize when their desperation prevented them from being saved and disengaging before they pulled you under. At some point you need to leave everyone behind and focus on your own recovery. You might try to lead them out or pull on someone – but eventually you needed to let go and focus on rescuing yourself.

I think you are at that point right now.

You need to step back and realize that you need to save yourself. Everything else is optional.

Those “friends”? Well… let them know how disappointed you are with their actions. Some will feign indignation, some will silently slip away and maybe some will contact you with their excuses. And maybe some of the excuses will be valid. But be prepared to let them all drown rather than let them pull you down.

Keep in mind that if OM is part of that friends-group then it’s probably inevitable that they are phased out.

Then there is the OM… You seem to insist that he’s your friend. After all – in the post-coital pillow-talk he supported your marriage…

Friend – do you realize how weird that sounds?

It’s like a friend offering you champagne to celebrate sobriety.

You have got to accept and realize that ongoing contact with OM will pull you under.

Your MS friend? Well… I would try to be there for him BUT once again: If he’s pulling you under then you need to think of yourself.

Then your wife.

I can understand why you are so desperate to save her. But honestly – if she doesn’t want to be saved then you need to let her go.

Generally, that’s what I always suggest: YOU the BS keep momentum. YOU walk towards your destination and that destination is to get out of infidelity. If your wife comes along and does so on your terms. If she initiates contact with OM or returns contact with OM then you leave her behind.

Your environment right now is so confused, so toxic. Simplify. Remove factors that really don’t matter (the friends that kept the secret). Remove factors that are toxic (OM) and be prepared to remove factors that might keep you in infidelity (WW). If she realizes that YOU are swimming to safety and are willing to leave her behind rather than let her pull you under that will create the conditions where she will swim or sink.

Trying to get out of infidelity now in earnest. I cannot continue going on like this.

I think I finally realize that I truly have no control over anything but me.

Full NC with OM. All of the friends associated with him are done, gone.

I told my WS that all indications point to failure for R at this point. Blameshifting, rugsweeping, lack of remorse, Trickle Truth...she admitted that she does not love me, that there is nothing to build on unless I can just pretend like it never happened and we move forward only.

I think she is willing to lose everything at this point because she feels like she deserves it. Almost certain if we file, it's over.

My sincerest hope is that we can R, it is. I imagine that is still the best chance for my children's wholeness, and ultimately, I only want her. The pain of realizing that I cannot have her without constantly doubting everything is killing me.

Do I just file and be done with it? Is that really the best chance at R? Or is R just a stupid fantasy from a desperate self delusion?

I feel like it's awfully late in the game to consider the 180 as a viable strategy anymore.

...she admitted that she does not love me, that there is nothing to build on unless I can just pretend like it never happened and we move forward only.

It is a very long, trauma filled endeavor to attempt R with a WS that is fully contrite, remorseful, empathetic, deeply committed, sincerely devoted to the BS and the M. Even under those ideal circumstances, R is an uphill battle.

You have a cheating wife who has said she does not love you and the only way R will work is if you rugsweep and pretend that she does. I know the severe trauma and shock you are under, but how could you imagine that this relationship would be a wholesome environment for your children....or for you. You would be in 24/7 agony.

I am sorry for the terrible circumstances your WW and so-called BF foisted on you. But you have to get yourself out of the growing trauma of her wayward ways. Please remind yourself of your own words:

I think I finally realize that I truly have no control over anything but me.

None. Zero. Zilch. You will pay an even heaver price than you already are if you think you have any power, even a small amount, to transform a broken cheater that does not love you into a faithful, healthy, loving wife. You only have power over what you do. D would not be the reason that R is unlikely, your WW's choice to not want R would be the reason.

You can't fix this kind of broken......However, you do have the power to set your life on a course that leads to a healthier and happier place and state of mind. You are embroiled in a toxic whirlwind. Don't let yourself stay too long.

[This message edited by DIFM at 4:34 AM, November 2nd (Friday)]