SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I did it to make her feel good, which made me feel good.

When I read that part, I felt like that was me typing that. That was my codependency shouting. If I made others feel good then that made me feel good.

Feed external validation so hopefully they would in turn internally feed me. It's a sick, vicious cycle.

When they didn't reciprocate it back...resentful, anger, hate, suffering.

Other than this group, what is your group dynamic in the real world? Do you have a church/social group that you can turn to face to face to enjoy that company? I believe so much now in social effervescence and it's power of us as individuals to feel like we "belong" to something bigger, whether it's a small book club, sports team, or religion. The reason I bring this up is because I wonder if you have a group that feel that you belong to outside of these digital forums.

For me and my codependency I wanted to fit in so bad I would give compliments out like breath mints at Olive Garden. Good, bad, appropriate, inappropriate, everyone got one. Because if it made them feel better about themselves, then it made me feel good and like I could fit in and my "social circle" would grow. Take that away and really I have no connection to these people. It was the splenda of connection.

I'm not sure if this rambling is making sense, but at least maybe something to think about. There's definitely signs of codependency jumping out to me as I read your latest post though.

Keep doing what you're dong in terms of finding your truth. That's important work.

As to your BH, remember that he's only 5 months out from DDay, and there has been some additional disclosures. He's wrestling with his own uniquely personal demons, which are unfortunately very triggered by this.

The most common advice here to both BS and WS is "time, patience, perseverance". I think that advice applies to you two, more than anything.

The crush on my BS’s best friend – I don’t fully understand this yet, so my reasoning to post things for the sake of reflection, enlightenment, or whatever, would have me post about this. So, I do think I made an exception not to post because this is extremely embarrassing for me and I carry a lot of shame about it. Perhaps this is manipulative, but there’s still a part of me that wonders why choosing not to share things with the interwebs (that I’m sharing openly with my BS) is manipulative.

Pretty easy to explain. Because you're sharing only part of the story. Which gives people a distorted picture. One that has arguably been sanitized to show you in a more positive light and your BS in a more negative one.

By leaving out the gory details of the incident, i.e you happily telling him about your crush on his BF for YEARS, the flirting and inappropriate messages with the Babysitter his reaction seems disproportional and unwarranted. It makes him look bad, really bad.

I also don’t want random internet strangers to “pick sides” or pit us against each other, and sometimes I worry that posting about very specific incidents has the potential to do that. In the last couple of weeks, I’ve purposefully tried to keep what I write about more general because of that.

This has the opposite effect. People will and are already picking sides. By casting yourself in a more positive side, leaving out the gory stuff and withholding crucial information from situations you are telling them about you are not keeping them from picking sides, you are assuming they'll be more likely to pick yours.

Either you avoid talking about this incident altogether, or you should give the whole story. Telling someone half the story, especially when leaving out very important parts on your end, you warp the entirety of the incident in your favor.

The OP is not on trial here and this is not a court of law. Sheesh.

In fact, the only qualifications for responding to posts here is having a keyboard and obeying the TOS (which is often skating a thin line for some people in the Wayard section it would appear.) It's a message board, not an authority, moral or imperative.

Maurader,

I would really ask yourself who you think you are helping here.I get it - You don't like her posts, you don't like her.

You fail to understand she is a new wayward, she is learning too and you really don't feel she should have any room for that. I think you should consider refraining from posting on her thread. There is nothing constructive you are adding.

What follows is JMO.

I've stayed away from this thread because the the premise bothers me. As I've written, you don't heal your BS; your BS heals himself.

I've been posting on a thread of your H's about the Drama Triangle. That often goes along with co-dependence, and this thread seems to me to stem from co-d. That's an observation more than a criticism.

The antidote to both DTs and co-d is getting authentic. You say that's your aim. One of my aims with this post is to confirm for you that you're on the right track.

In general I read a lot of comparative words in your posts - doing something better, for example - and I read 'try.' I suggest dropping 'try,' because it really means 'put in effort and fail.' As Yoda said, 'Do or don't do.' You can't be perfect. You'll fail sometimes no matter what. You can learn from failures - but we're all responsible for the results we get, not for our effort.

Comparisons are similar to 'try'. I think you may find a lot more success if, for example, you commit to a new behavior than if you commit to 'getting better at the new behavior.'

Do or don't do. And if you commit to doing something and fail something important enough, pick yourself up and start over. No one's perfect. No one has the right to expect perfection of himself or of anyone else.

Some comments on statements that stick in my mind.

It almost feels like because I “got away” with lying for 12 years, that I shouldn’t “get away” with anything that’s hurtful ever again.

So did you confess to be punished? Did you confess as a way of getting someone to force you to stop lying?

The thing is, no one can force another person to stop lying. A person who wants to do that has to decide to stop lying. I get that you want to tell the truth, but I'm not sure that you've decided to.

That's a big step. It's really hard to stop lying when it's a habit. You have to make the decision, accept that you might backslide, accept that you'll have to endure the consequences of backsliding, accept that you'll have to restart the new behavior a number of times - but you can do it.

You owe it to your H. You owe it to other people. But above all, you owe it to yourself - telling the truth will make your life much easier.

What I didn't write is how much I am working to also understand my BS.

My initial reaction is: Stop. Just Stop.

To be authentic, you need to focus on yourself - your thoughts, feelings, behaviors, wants, don't-wants, etc. You take care of you.

Let your H take care of his own thoughts, feelings, behaviors, wants, don't-wants, etc. If he has difficulty with that, it's his difficulty, his problem to solve.

IMO, R is on the table most effectively if there's a good match between WS's and BS's wants and don't-wants. I'd hate my W's desires to be identical to mine, but there has to be a significant overlap, IMO.

To find if you and your H fit, you both need to speak honestly about yourselves, from your hearts, irrespective of what the outcome will be.

Speak from your heart. Listen with your heart as well as your ears and 'computer.' See below.

I think I do have a tendency to make assumptions about what he's thinking and feeling that aren't about him.

Of course. That's why I say listen with heart, ears, and 'computer.' You have to distinguish between what you understand and think you understand. That means asking questions for clarity, even if you're afraid your H will get angry.

Good luck to both of you.

Maurader,

I would really ask yourself who you think you are h

elping here.I get it - You don't like her posts, you don't like her.

You fail to understand she is a new wayward, she is learning too and you really don't feel she should have any room for that. I think you should consider refraining from posting on her thread. There is nothing constructive you are adding.

A BS could say the same thing about what you posted on his thread.

FWIW I think your posts are so heartfelt and your desire to assist is authentic, however can you not see that to some BS, YOU appear to be one of those that may have been manipulated, chose sides and crossposted in her favor?. Quite a few BS may not have liked the way you highlighted his thoughts of a RA, while not addressing the details of her most recent post.. It seemed a little blameshifty.

FWIW, I married a FWW, so I do believe in a better tomorrow. I also believe she manipulates him, because she truly loves him and wants him to stay. That is who she is.

no offense intended.

[This message edited by 66charger at 9:03 PM, March 15th (Friday)]

66charger- fair enough but if you go through her thread he clearly just seeks out to repeatedly berate her. I was not trying to berate anyone, and to me it’s the difference. I do lean towards not making a decision yet in case they can R, yes. I don’t lean towards either poster though, I think it’s in both best interests. I was compassionate with both. My advice to cbm was meant to point out he was hurting himself with his behavior, it was not to take up for flawed. If it came across that way it was never my intention.

There are a number of people who have cross posted on that thread and I said nothing to anyone else about it. The helpful part of this site is getting a lot of perspectives. But, I don’t like to see kicking someone when they are down. And while I bit my tongue on his other posts that I felt had a bullying tone, I felt she came back and made some hard honest admissions and to me it was just incredibly cruel he continued directly after that. Anyway, it’s been left for the mods to decide.

Flawed:

The previous posters nailed it when they said manipulation is to reach a desired outcome.

To further that line of thinking, we often do so to avoid certain outcomes. This is normally a fear based response.

So, what is it you fear?

Remember that book suggestion I made to you? It is about acceptance. The key to true acceptance is overcoming your fear.

Fear is at the heart of your problem. Identify that which you fear, and you will be on your way to true healing.

[This message edited by farsidejunky at 10:14 AM, March 16th (Saturday)]

Is manipulation always a bad thing to do?

Backstory. A good female friend of mine worked really hard to get me out of a horrible relationship. She always had one of her good freinds hanging around. Our get togethers always ended up with me and her friend being the last to leave. Our first "date" lasted 3 days and I proceeded to go all out to get this woman. I had no clue that my freind and my now wife were in cahoots for an entire year. Was I manipulated? Sure I was, but the reason behind the "manipulation" is a important part of that question. I married this "freind of my freind" last summer.

So what is the OP looking to gain by "manipulating".

Hiding a current affair? Not likely.

Hiding a different past affair? Polys are hard to beat. She may be flawed, but she does have boundaries.

Buying time to get her ducks in a row? Keeping him home for the children and a paycheck? Don't see that in either of their threads.

Or it could be something else. Call it selfish, call it manipulation, call it what ever you like, but it does appear that her efforts, while flawed, are simply for the one reason that matters. Because she truly does love him and will do anything in her power to keep him where she wants him. Home, by her side, married and working on it. Authentically.

I do wish that CBM would give more weight to the polygraph and that flawed would focus a little more on her authentic love and less on saying the right thing. A crossroad is approaching and if the fog doesnt clear, they may take the wrong turn.

A final thought. I have never seen 2 threads that evoked such heartfelt and passionate responses. Some people really do care. Hats off to all sides and a sincere one to HO. I would hope that the both of them truly appreciate the battle that others are fighting for their marriage.

I would hope that the both of them truly appreciate the battle that others are fighting for their marriage.

I get the sentiment, but I also think that we posters need to be cognizant that too much investment in an outcome is not a good thing. As I wrote on CBM's thread, I found myself advocating in a way that had more to do with me and my own hopes than it did with CBM and Flawed's experience. And it's especially tricky if one partner is fully committed to R and the other is experiencing significant ambiguity. The second you start feeling loyalty to a side, your perspective is compromised. Plus, it's so tempting for them to come here and throw themselves at the feet of the court of public opinion, and we're all getting incomplete versions of their private life. So when a couple's struggle becomes a battle between members, it's time to get really careful and self-evaluative about why.

Flawed,

Breathe. Center yourself.

In your posts, you mention wanting to be 'cool'. Why is there that need? What is being 'cool' to you? Do you see yourself as a stick-in-the-mud?

I do hope that your IC is helping you out with the validation issues, as they seem to be the ones getting you into trouble.

As to your previous post, about your crush. What is it about your BH's BF that is making you crush? Looks? Personality? Hopefully your IC is also dealing with this.

Is manipulation always a bad thing to do?

Yes. It's inauthentic and dishonest.

Flawed can your betrayed H achive these goals in order to truley R and live out the rest of his days with peace of mind and real love in his heart?

Maintaining his sanity intact

Keeping his health intact

Keeping his self-respect intact

Keeping his finances intact

Keeping his relationship with your children intact

Putting all these things first and taking that path it will lead you out of Infidelity and on to a better life.

The best result is a life well lived

If you can work with him to do this it could work

If you truly can't let him go and move on with both your lives

I wish you both well

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