SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I believe, if my husband was actually interested in seeking connection and support he could have written this almost completely. He has a great deal of resentment towards me from our cycle of treatment in the marriage pre affair and it keeps him locked in not doing the things that are needed in recovery. BUT even down to the brother, This could be us.

I see his inability to move passed his shame and accept his need to work on his own issues. He is so much meaner than he ever was pre affair. He is dark and cold at times. His heart is just hard. He says nothing he does is seen, yet he is also very often defensive and has been this whole time. He shuts down (that is realllllly bad and abaonding)

I give him words I need to hear, I show him how to lean into me and hold me. I show him how to give me empathy. He will not do it. He says "what you say is true" That has no effect on me. There is no effort to say that. There is no heart. He tells me that the empathy is there I just don't see it and it will not be the way I want it ???????? How is that empathy????? Its not. Its self focused. He is really unhealthy and we are not going anywhere,actually after 2 years we are worse. He can not express what I need. He did those horrible things and worse. Yes even worse to our children. He says he was the worst evil on our family. He abandoned all of us. He left me with everything on my plate and played with the his soul mate.

As you see, it takes a great deal to help someone you have done this to. He is so unhealthy he does not even see how much additional damage he does. His defensiveness and inability to show empathy are clear signs of his dysfunction. I know that his childhood has come back to get him after he spent his life pushing it down "not needing to deal with it/already dealt with it".

I think you have it very right. You are so different from my husband as you want help and want to do what you can for your wife. I feel like her. It is AWEFUL. It is hell on earth and after 3 years it is exhausting. She has her work but you, you really being there the deeper ways is critical. It so painful to not feel safe and she sounds very unsafe.

Do you have and individual counselor? Can you do your own trauma therapy? Then emotional therapy. You have likely been living on the surface levels of emotions. She needs you deeper. You have to get healthy first.

My husband (might soon to be ex as I can not keep being at this emotionally abusive place and disrepair) He argues and refuses much

Good grief… just read your bio and our 16 year old daughter has aspergers... turns out so does my husband. That is where I think a lot of is inability to "do this right" makes this 100 harder. He just sees through his lens It sucks.

Here's the deal. You devastated your wife. Profoundly devastated her. Deep down, I think she wants to know that you are devastated by the fact that you devastated her.

That doesn't mean lying around depressed, feeling sorry for yourself, thinking about all the negative impacts your affair had on your life and marriage. That means truly feeling the magnitude of what it is like to have your heart ripped out of your chest, the trust you held so dear get irrevocably crushed, that feeling of safety and security lost, probably forever. In short, you need to be thinking about all the negative impacts your affair had on HER life and marriage. That is the difference between regret and remorse.

That is what she means when she says you don't "get it". You need more empathy, more remorse. Regret is a very selfish emotion, so lose it.

Apologies don't fix anything. Working on yourself doesn't help her. Moving on in life not feeling the enormity of what happened does not create healing. You need to stare at the abyss every day, acknowledge it, and build a life for yourself and your wife that isn't predicated by that abyss going away. It will always be there, and you have to find a way to thrive in its presence.

Some ideas:

1. Bring it up. The affair, the relationship pre-affair, the relationship post-affair. I can't tell you how frustrating it is to be the BS watching your WS run around trying to make life "better", trying to enact "personal growth". All the while, the wasteland that is your broken heart gets no mention, no focus, no attention. It comes across as ignoring the elephant in the room and it only serves to cast your wife on a very lonely island.

2. Own that she will never trust you again like she once did. The best she can do is trust you "enough". Tell her that you understand that. Tell her that your goal in life is to not to win back her trust, but to not do anything that causes her distrust. Ask her how you can achieve that goal. Ask her what things causes her the most past, and most concern.

3. Be sure you separate any discussion about your past pains, and her pains from your affair. They both need their air time, but let the conversation about her be all about her. Then when it's your time to talk about any of your personal struggles, you can leave the affair out of it.

We are 5 years from Dday, and seem to be very much in a place like you. We are good in many, many ways, even better than before in many ways. But the weight is still there, predominantly because I don't feel that my wife "gets it".

Daddydom, reading your posts are difficult for me. I see so much of myself in your story and have since I first came to SI. It pains me everytime I see you come back and talk about how you are struggling to get your head out of your own ass (your words). It pains me because I too, am still struggling. Had I not taken my affair underground our Ddays would have been around the same time, so I am stumbling several months behind you. But still stumbling nonetheless. It pains me because I can see so clearly in your posts that you want to do better, to be better, but continue to feel stuck no matter how hard you feel like you are trying.

I read your words and think I know exactly what to say to you because I've been there. But I am still there too. It feels like work, doesn't it? All the opening of tightly locked boxes of emotional childhood pain. It feels like SO MUCH work. And it is. Kudos to you for doing the work that must be done in order to move forward. Don't stop and keep going with your IC. It is obviously helping that work.

But that's the thing. That work is separate. And that is where my kudos end.

That work serves YOU more than anyone else. ISSF only gets to see it serve her if you let it serve her. If you take all the work you are doing in IC and apply it to your affair. Apply it to the new marriage you are attempting to build with your amazing wife. Not only that, but it is not the only work you need to be pouring yourself into. Showing that you are a safe place for ISSF is and should be your priority above all else. That is the work that will be your saving grace in whether she allows a new marriage to be rebuilt. Yes, you need to be able to process your own pain in order to truly process hers. But as soon as you are in the boat of even starting to process your own, you start to do both. You can't stay stuck in your own pain. Your wife only has so much patience and unfortunately for you she probably used most of it up in year 1 post Dday. You are operating on borrowed time, my friend. Act like that every damn day.

I say all of this to you because it is what I need to hear also. Perhaps I am projecting too much because I read both your and ISSF's posts and I see so much own my own wife in yours also. Regardless, now is the time for you to act. You are in year 3 now, sir. That is the supposed bottom end of the timeline for this recovery process. This gift of R does not last forever and your wife is not a magical goddess with infinite energy for your stuff and patience in waiting for you to "get it". And neither is mine.

[This message edited by FearfulAvoidance at 8:29 PM, December 3rd (Monday)]

cptprkchp

I'm sorry for such a slow reply. Your suggestions were wonderful and I have started to practice them right away. Thank you for taking the time to respond and to share your experiences with me. It sounds like we have an awful lot in common in terms of "back story" from our youth. Thank you also for being such a wonderful friend and support to my wife. It has meant a lot to her, and I appreciate you watching after her when I fail to do so sometimes.

I've had some revelations lately, and the information seems to be sticking so far. Let's hope this keeps up.

hopefulandhurt

I'm so sorry things are so hard for you. I agree, from the things you said in your response to me here, we do sound alike. Was your husband neglected/abused as a child?

Him having Aspergers is going to be a real challenge in this process. As you likely already know, Aspergers (and anyone on the Autism spectrum) usually includes a "focus on the self" to the point where other people and other responsibilities often aren't considered at all by the individual. It is usually not that they LACK empathy, rather, they just don't think about others until asked to do so. It is not an attitude problem on their part although it is frustrating as hell. It is processing problem. It is like a kid who won't clean their room until forced to do so. It's not that they CAN'T clean their room on their own, it's that they won't until forced to. Or until it affects them.

One of the things that happened to me was that I had an emotional breakdown a few months before the A, during which time, we learned that I disassociated and that brought out "multiple personalities" for lack of a better term. But what it also did (I think, this is my theory, not a diagnoses) is destroy whatever center of my brain held my ability to have empathy. People tell me things now such as, "Think of her and what she feels and what she needs..." and as dumb as it may sound, it is as if I am hearing this for the first time in my life. I literally forgot how empathy works, as if I never had it in the first place. But I know I did... even my wife will verify that I was very empathetic before. Now it is just "gone". Sort of like having a stroke and part of the brain dies. So now, I'm learning to rebuild my empathy. Of course, my lack of empathy kills my wife, and keeps me rooted in my own head most of the time. But it is working. I'm just starting to see some progress and the effect it is having on her is good.

Anyway, back to your husband. Threadjacking my own thread here... :)

Has your husband told you WHY he had an affair(s)? More specifically, why did he have it when he did? I mean, if he never had an affair before, and suddenly, out of the blue, he did, then what changed? What was the trigger?

Also, have you looked into Retrovaille? If not, I'd suggest it. They have a program which focuses on feelings rather than discussions. This may open some doors for the two of you to begin communicating on a "safe" level. I'm sure you probably don't feel like you should be the one making HIM comfortable and safe to talk, I get that. You are the one that was betrayed and hurt, not him. If you are willing to try however, this might be a good way to help him to get past the shame and self-hate while opening a door for him to be more understanding and empathetic with you at the same time. Can't hurt. It IS a religious program, but honestly, we're not very religious at all and it was fine.

I wish you both the best. I hope he can learn to get out of his own head soon before it is too late to save things for both of you.

It may be that I'm still too broken to help her.

Brother, I think you've answered your own question here. I've been reading your posts for quite a while and this seems to be a recurring theme. You've got to work through the abuse you suffered as a child. It's fucking you up, even today, decades later. I'd imagine that this has been true for most of your life.

I've read ISSF's last few posts and you're not even mentioned. Do you know why?

Have you still not figured out what it means to "get it?" Are you still confused about what a BS wants and needs to see happen for R to succeed?

First, you know how much I hate to say this about a Cardinal fan, but Unhinged is right.

Now, for my two cents...

You are well aware that ISSF and I are cut from very similar cloth. And, you also see that you and Mrs. Cap also mirror one another quite well. I have a pretty good feel for what ISSF may be thinking/feeling because it hits home with me, too. And like ISSF, I have grown weary.

But know this. She loves you. She wouldn't have put up with 1/100th of any of this if she didn't. I know that it isn't easy to always read that under the steely veneer. I know Because I know what I feel towards my wife (when I actually let myself feel).

When she says that she doesn't feel "seen" she is telling you this: I hurt. I hurt a lot. I hurt all the time. It's always there. Most of the time, I adjust so no one sees the hurt. But it's there.

The thing about all of this, both for you and for Mrs. Cap, is that when we don't show the hurt, it is assumed that we are OK. And when it's assumed that we are OK, you both go off "high alert". You relax. Not that coming off the alert is a bad thing, but the "relax" or the "letting your guard down" overstays it's welcome.

I don't need my wife providing eye service. I don't have to see her "doing the work." But what I need is to see the RESULTS of that work. Because seeing results shows me that she believes I am worth it and that she believes, more importantly, WE are worth it.

During my hunting trip last week, I didn't contact her once. Not one time. I waited to see if she would initiate any communication. It happened once. One time in 5 days.

Now, in a "normal" circumstance, this could be seen as letting me have time away, not wanting to burden me with life here, etc. But we don't live under "normal" circumstances anymore. And if she had read or listened to ANYTHING at all, she would have figured out that it would have been important to me to check in, to tell me she missed me, or to say that she was looking forward to me being back home.

But I got nothing. Radio silence. That was louder than anything she could have ever said.

What I'm getting at here is this: I know that you know what you need to be doing, both in addressing the demons from your growing up years as well as those from your grown up years. Yes, I did call you a grown-up. 😁. But ISSF isn't going to tell you when or how to address things anymore, the same way I won't tell my wife when or how to address things anymore.

It is all on you, just like it is all on Mrs. Cap. It isn't that we can't do the heavy lifting for you anymore, is that we can't do ANY lifting for you. Not even a speck of dust. None of it. It has to be ALL you.

I stopped planning our date nights the day Mrs. Cap accused me of being abusive. I haven't planned anything in 6 months. She hasn't noticed, nor has she asked why.

She sees me every morning and asks "Are you sad about the past or the present?" And every day, my answer is the same. "Yes." Then she says "What can I do?" And I say "I can't answer that." Why can't I answer? Because I've already answered HUNDREDS of times. I can't do the lifting for her. She has articles I've sent her. She has How to Help Your Spouse Heal that I've highlighted. She has notes & letters I have written that lay every last thing out step-by-step. And she is still paralyzed when it comes to action.

She is the smart kid in class who knows ALL the answers but keeps seeking validation from the teacher for having the "right" answer before moving forward with a project. As the teacher, I don't £@&$#!€ care that you want your answer double, triple, quadruple checked. Just put forth your own effort.

Brother, it isn't easy to overcome those demons from our past. Its even harder when we face their roots from childhood. But at some point, the search for the "perfect" answer has to cease and action MUST be taken. It's the only thing that will move the relationship forward.

Where I grew up, it all gets summed up in one phrase:

Shit or get off the pot.

I don’t believe I’ve commented yet on this, but I have been following along. You have gotten some great advice.

To me though, Captain Rogers just articulated everything I’ve felt in the last year or so. Since I woke up and crawled out of the codependent nightmare I was living in. I expect him to do things on his own without me having to remind him. He is an adult, not my teenager. I am tired of doing the heavy lifting as well. I am trying to share the load now.

We have been in quite a few arguments because he does not get some of my reactions to triggers. It’s been awhile now, but he quite frankly does not get it. I sent him articles in the beginning, but since then, I’ve asked him multiple times to do some research. Every time we’ve argued since about it and I’ve asked him if he’s done research, the answer is “no.” Our MC has told him my reactions are normal, and we will get it and apologize, but he will not take the extra time and be prepared.

If I caused permanent damage to someone, lifelong, permanent damage, I would research what I could do, what the symptoms were, so I could anticipate and acknowledge it, etc. So I could truly understand what I’ve done. Have you done that? Not for yourself and your whys, but for what ISSF goes through and will continue to go through possibly for the rest of her life. It may help with some of the defensiveness and overall remorse.

I’m pretty sure I will stay married to my WH. This is a very small piece of our overall marriage and I understand it takes a lot to change a personality. I’m sure it’s the same for you and ISSF. Just keep pushing when it gets hard. Don’t give up.

Good luck.

Unhinged, CaptainRodgers, Thissucks5678, and all...

All of you are correct of course. I can feel the frustration from your ends, watching yet another WS spin and spin, stuck in their own head and their own pain, while you, the BS's, are left alone to carry this pain, or worse yet, continue to carry new pain as the person that destroyed your world remains more worried about themselves than you. I get it. Almost anything I could say as a response ends up feeling more like an excuse than anything else, and I just won't go down that road right now. All I'll say for now is, it is frustrating for me too, and that is the reason I keep asking the same question over and over, because I'm still stuck but simply not willing to accept that as an answer or an outcome. I'd rather ask the same question 100 times until I "get it" then struggle in silence and not even try to reach out. ISSF is worth all the 2x4's in the world, and I am simply not willing to give up trying to reconcile and help her heal, even if I fail 100 times and piss people off along the way. I treated her like shit, like less than shit, and I owe her my life for the damage I've done to her, and for all that she still gives me even so. I broke my vows and betrayed her. I need to do all I can to restore her agency and allow her to express the pain and damage that she carries from that. You'd think it would be natural to do so.

I have not been making room in my life for my wife's pain. I've been aware of it, but so trapped in shame and grief that I haven't yet been able to get out of my own head and just be there for her. Up until recently, the questions of "How is she feeling? What are her needs? How can I support her better?" have not been front and center in my life. I have no excuse for that. It is an inexcusable lack of empathy, and my own entitlement and self-focus keeping me rooted in my own emotional turmoil. You guys have told me again and again and again to find a way to get my head out of my ass. I guess the problem with getting your head out of your ass, is when you get your head stuck in your ass in the first place...

FWIW, therapy has been helping, a lot. As we continue to work through my childhood stuff, I am finally feeling able to start thinking and feeling like a human being, at least, a little. And with that, the empathy is slowly starting to return. I swear to God, it is so hard to explain to anyone that isn't in my head, but it has been as if someone took a drill to my head and just bored out the part of my brain that empathy lives in. I feel like I am relearning it, for the first time. Your words have been there in my head, but not really absorbed and adopted. Empathy is built on an emotional version of "muscle memory" and that is being rebuilt piece by piece for me right now.

I've read ISSF's last few posts and you're not even mentioned. Do you know why?

I imagine it is because it is too painful for her to mention. Because it hurts to admit, over and over again, that your husband, who is two full years into the process, is almost as lost as he was two years ago. That she still doesn't feel seen or heard, loved or cared about enough to matter to him. She is focused on herself and has to be because I'm nowhere to be found (unless you are willing to go digging in my ass). Because she reads how much some other WS's are doing to try and reconcile and win their spouses trust and love back, while her husband spins like a top and continues to worry about himself more than anyone else. Because it hurts too damn much to think about someone who still can't think about you, at all, unless there is some context back to himself. Am I warm?

I'm tired of being "that guy". I might have to rebuild my empathy piece by piece like a lego house, but if so, then so be it. I've been asking myself lately how I can be a better husband and partner. I ask myself now what she needs. I ask myself how she might feel. I ask myself if there is something that needs to be said or discussed. And I am starting to learn to ask her things, even things I know she may not be happy about. Sometimes, especially the things she won't be happy about. I've come to the conclusion that my needs don't and shouldn't matter right now, at least, in terms of helping her. I can worry about those things on my own time, the difference being, it can't be MY time ALL the time. I have to make time for HER pain, HER need to be hurt and angry and upset at the abuse and indifference I've treated her with. She needs a husband and a best friend who can not only see her and feel her, but who can give a shit, and who can love and support her. I keep waiting for the perfect or right answer to everything. I keep protecting myself. I can't do that anymore.

Thank you all for having the bravery and concern to stop and comment on my posts even though you know your comments seemingly gone into the ether before. ISSF is the most amazing person I have ever known, and has always shown me nothing but love and support. I know every day is a living hell for her, a reminder that what she had (our marriage, full trust, unconditional love, security, love, family) that is now gone. She suffers over the thought that the children are going to be affected by this, in one way or another, but they will never look at relationships, any relationships, the same way again. I may have ruined their chances of having a healthy relationship, and that affects her too, and is a burden she bears whether she wants to or not. She suffers over a husband who still claims to love her and care, but isn't there when it counts, and still drops her on her ass sometimes when she needs me most. I could go on and on. None of this is okay. All of it is my fault. And all of it is mine to help or hinder in the healing.

The thing about all of this, both for you and for Mrs. Cap, is that when we don't show the hurt, it is assumed that we are OK. And when it's assumed that we are OK, you both go off "high alert". You relax. Not that coming off the alert is a bad thing, but the "relax" or the "letting your guard down" overstays it's welcome.

I hate to admit this to myself, but this is true. ISSF is a tough cookie. She doesn't like to show her pain. And she doesn't want to taint the children even more so she puts on her happy mask sometimes in order to spare them the continued pain, but that just places it on her shoulders even more, and adds to her pain and her burden. I've been learning that sometimes I need to ask how she's doing when all seems well, just as much as when she's hurting. Because in truth, she's always hurting, even when she's doing well. She needs words AND actions. And sometimes those are very simple things... a simple acknowledgement of her pain, or a simple admission of my failures and how I hurt her, or even something as simple as seeing what she needs and trying to provide it or support it. All it takes is seeing her, and doing so means I need to see past myself first.

It is all on you, just like it is all on Mrs. Cap. It isn't that we can't do the heavy lifting for you anymore, is that we can't do ANY lifting for you. Not even a speck of dust. None of it. It has to be ALL you.

Yup. And yet, what she HAS done is to be there for me the way I have failed to be there for her. She can't do the work for me and I can't do hers for her, however she sees past her own pain and acknowledges mine. I've been doing a lot of EMDR lately and she has stopped to understand and empathize with the fact that it has me very "inward focused" for now. That's what she needs from me as well. Not to fix her, just to show her that I understand and that I am there for her, to help hold her up and comfort her while she is on her healing journey. And to know that I will continue to be there.

Shit or get off the pot.

I use this quote all the time. Yeah, I think this wraps up the sentiment nicely. Love ya brother.

Love you too, brother. Happy Birthday!

I can feel the frustration from your ends, watching yet another WS spin and spin, stuck in their own head and their own pain, while you, the BS's, are left alone to carry this pain, or worse yet, continue to carry new pain as the person that destroyed your world remains more worried about themselves than you.

Man, I'm not frustrated with you at all. I don't even know you. Sure, I've read your story here on SI, read most of the threads you've started, some of your other posts. I've read some of ISSF's threads and posts, as well. From what I've read, filtered through my own experiences and from what I've learned here on SI, I think the only thing missing from this equation is you healing you and letting ISSF heal herself.

I don't know this for certain, but I'd imagine that your BW is detaching and focusing on her recovery and healing. That's healthy, you know? It's what I learned here and what I try to pass on to others.

So here's the deal. You heal you. She heals herself. Focus on you, DaddyDom. Focus on that childhood trauma and tackle the shit out of it. Because this is what ISSF (or so it seems to me) is hoping to see, what will allow her to believe that reconciliation isn't just possible, but actually happening.

You've got to do this on your own. You've got to focusing on this and breakthrough. Personally, I think you could do it, if you really wanted to.

ISSF might not wait. She might leave. That won't change the issue and you know it. Let go, man. Some BSs find out that they can't do it, for themselves, and it's got nothing to do with the WS. I'm not saying this is true of her, btw, only that it's a possibility.

You can help each other to heal, but it's only help. The bulk of the work falls upon us all, individually, for ourselves. Healing is a choice.

I think as we all, as couple, attempt to reconcile, with must first reconcile with ourselves. I think when you do find your way forward and break free of those demons that empathy will come naturally to you.

For the first time since coming across Unhinged’s posts I disagree with him.

I think you had two years to focus on you daddydom. You had two years to deal with your childhood trauma. And you’re still focusing on it. You know what? Sometimes people need to learn to get over it. To suck it up. You can’t go back in time to change anything. It’s there. It happened. Enough using it as an excuse to ignore your wife’s pain.

I have a lot of FOO issues and I didn’t cheat. I won’t go into them in detail as this isn’t a competition for who’s fucked up the most due to childhood FOO issues. I deal with it as I grow older. It comes back at times but it doesn’t prevent me from living my life with integrity and loyalty. It doesn’t prevent me having a good amount of empathy. Even in this situation where I’m the BS I still find empathy for my WH although I know he doesn’t deserve it.

Of course you need to heal yourself. But this may be a lifelong process. Are you going to ignore your wife’s pain for the rest of your life? Dealing with your FOO issues shouldn’t prevent you from showing empathy to your spouse at the same time. It doesn’t have to be two different paths. Those paths can meet if you make yourself vulnerable to her and show empathy for her pain caused by you.

Just my opinion.

[This message edited by Luna10 at 3:34 PM, December 7th (Friday)]

For the first time since coming across Unhinged’s posts I disagree with him.

Don't worry, Luna. You will get used to it. He's a Cardinal fan. 😂

On a real note, however, I see where you are both correct (hence my previous "crap or get off the pot" comment).

Yes, DaddyDom needs to continue working on himself. But he cannot do it to the detriment of paying less attention to ISSF. Should be out all of his energy towards her? Of course not. He has a lot to deal with inside of himself.

This is the struggle of the WS doing the heavy lifting in repairing both themselves (individually) and their M.

Not saying that my brother here believes this, but I can/have seen where a WS says something to the effect of "There, I have finished working on me. We can be all better now. Let's move forward from here." This continues to keep the entire focus on the WS and does not account for those things that a detached BS truly needs in order to reattach.

I read an article recently from The Gottman Institute that addressed the "coming back together" after an A. They broke it down into three basic parts. Atone. Attune. Attach. And while there is a role the BS plays in each of the three steps, the majority of the hard work falls on the WS.

In reading the article, I see that several WSs that I know get stuck at the Attune step. They have atoned (as much as possible), and they are working on (or may be completely there) being attuned to their BS. But they fail to attach again. Not in a bad, co-dependent way, but in the proper way for relational success.

I know that's where my wife is at...stuck in step 2. I'm thinking that's probably where DaddyDom is residing now as well.

Unhinged/Luna/Cap

I agree with all of you. I don't think it is really possible for me to be of help and support to ISSF's healing until I begin to address the lack of empathy towards her and towards myself. She cannot begin to feel safe with me, and therefore cannot feel close to me, until that is addressed. While you would have to ask her how she actually feels, my gut tells me that me cheating again is not her primary fear. I think her primary fear is the instability in my character. As long as the impulsivity, the desperation, and the "forever thinking" (for lack of a better term, but I mean seeing things in absolutes) continues to exist, she will feel at risk. She can't have me running off to soothe myself, or shutting down, every time I get upset or feel the need for confirmation and validation. She can't have me going off on her or blaming her or projecting on her for things when tension arises. She can't have me setting a bad example and environment for the kids, and doing further damage to them and to her. I'm sure there's more but you get the idea. There are various things that she may be willing to wait for or work on, but those things, they need to be addressed sooner rather than later, and if they continue to be a problem... well, that's not good.

I said, "begin to address" in the previous paragraph because I also agree that we can't put the relationship on hold until I'm "all fixed" or we may be waiting forever, and ISSF may continue to feel abused and neglected in the meantime. She's the strongest person I know and has enough confidence and integrity for all of us, but even so, everyone has their limits. Even if she was willing to wait for me forever, she wouldn't be willing to allow the toxicity to continue to hurt the family without some feeling of hope or direction. So yes, working on myself only and not trying to be a support for her is very much like "dumping" her all over again, because it would simply be me worrying about and focusing on me, just like I did during the affair. I don't think any BS relishes that idea.

As to the timeline of things... Yes, Luna, you are correct that I've had two years so far to get my act in order and while I have made efforts, they have been scattered and mostly ineffective, leaving me just about at the same position I was two years ago, emotionally speaking. I'd like think progress has been made, but I know it is not nearly enough, not enough to help her feel safe again. While not a defense of anything, all I can say here is that finally finding the right therapy is making a consistent and noticeable difference in my recovery. I'm starting to slowly pull out of my own head and beginning to come back to humanity again. For the first time since the affair, I'm starting to feel more like I'm in the arena, rather than hustling for my worth (thank you, Brene Brown, for those terms). I know I have a long way to go, but it fills me with hope and anxiety (the good kind of anxiety, like waiting to unwrap gifts on Christmas morning) to be actually feeling different, and thinking differently. I find myself genuinely interested in my wife and kids again, wanting to know what is going on in their lives, their minds, their hearts, and trying to do what is needed so that they have all the things they need in life, and most of the things they want. I know how horrible that sounds coming out of my own mouth... how could I have ever NOT cared about those things? I won't go into that here, I will just say that it is a horrible feeling to be so wrapped up in yourself that you can't even love or consider others, not even the people that you should love the most.

Attunement is something that our MC mentioned early on that she feels is missing right now. We will be doing EFT work with her specifically to address this issue. The reason we haven't been doing it so far is because my lack of empathy and my own selfishness were a barrier to doing so. Our MC basically said, "We can't do this until you are in an emotionally secure enough place to sustain and support it first". And she's right. Gotta learn to swim before taking lifeguard classes, right?

She might leave, that's true. She has every right to, and frankly, every reason to. She doesn't need me to survive. She is successful and makes enough money to take care of herself without me. Our daughter is almost out of school. She loves herself and is not afraid to be alone if need be, and knows that if she does want to have a relationship with someone else in the future, that she is in a healthy place and worthy of someone healthier than me to be her partner. She could meet a nice, Jewish version of Don Draper and live happily ever after. I know this. But that's the risk that needs to be taken. I love her and I want what is best for her, even if that isn't best for me. Just the other day, I told her I realize that her seeing an IC (I've been encouraging her to see one) might actually make things worse for me. She may start to get emotionally healthier and decide that sticking with me and this marriage is not what's in her best interests or desires. I don't want that to happen of course, and will do anything I can to give her reasons to stay and to build our relationship together. But she has been traumatized, and abused. And I get that, because I certainly understand trauma and abuse. I don't want her to have to carry that ball and chain around forever without any hope of release. The affair will always be there, because we can't go back and unring that bell. But the trauma is something that can be dealt with. She deserves to be happy, and dealing with the trauma is on that road to happiness.

She is here, right now, today, and still willing to see where things go. I am eternally grateful to her for that opportunity, that gift, that sacrifice. Now it is her turn to have me sacrifice and struggle for her, for us, and for the family. I'm learning how to emotionally cope and be present in a healthy way from my IC, and I want to give that gift to ISSF, because lord knows, she's gotten the shit end of the stick for about two years running now...

Don't worry, Luna. You will get used to it. He's a Cardinal fan. 😂

Oh... the incessant jealousy of Cubs fans.

Luna, I'm not trying to suggest that DaddyDom should ignore his BW. Far from it. What I do believe, though, is that the one thing she really wants to know and understand and believe is that our friend here is "owning and fixing his shit." It's the cornerstone of reconciliation. At first, especially in those first couple of years, we need some massive reassurances from our WS. We need their help. But it's just help and bulk of recovery and healing falls squarely upon our own shoulders.

DaddyDom, it seems to me that ISSF has pretty much recovered and that she's healing and putting herself back together quite well. She's on a good time-line (more or less). I couldn't say for certain, of course, but I think she knows you're trying, that you're committed and want to be a safe partner. And like just about any other BS in R, including me, all she wants to see now is you breaking free of those chains that bind you.

Oh... the incessant jealousy of Cubs fans.

Not jealousy...just needling. 😎

73 days until the four greatest words in the English language.

Pitchers and catchers report...