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She further commented that she has doubts that we will make it through this ordeal as a couple (paraphrasing and further gas-lighting)

This is really just straight up bullying you. She is trying to scare you into backing down by telling you this. She thinks that you will not leave her and she will get you to stop talking about it by threatening to leave you. This dynamic needs to be flipped I think for you two to have a chance. She needs to feel like you will actually leave her if things don't change and this will happen when you decide that you actually will.

Has this been her argument style for your marriage? Has she threatened to leave before or bullied you in arguments? Read up on the 180. It is a tool to give you some emotional distance in this tragedy so that you can think clearly. Once you get a little distance you will see that divorcing is not the worst outcome here. Staying in a marriage where you are disrespected and she is unfaithful is. When you get to that clarity she will sense it and know that her usual tactics won't work. It doesn't mean she will change. She might not want the marriage that badly but it does mean you will accept it and get what is best for you out of this. Good luck.

My WW has commented that she wants to be over and done with this whole situation, just move on.

This does not sound like a woman who understands or cares that she has hurt you deeply and possibly damaged her marriage beyond repair. This does not sound like a woman who is going to accept any accountability for her actions. This does not sound like a woman who feels a shred of remorse for what she did to you, your children, your families, your marriage, your sanity. This does not sound like a woman who cares about you or your feelings.

I'm sorry to be so brutal, but that's what I see.

I see something else. If you're doing all that monitoring, then you clearly have no trust left in her, and she isn't doing a single thing to reestablish it that I've heard about.

You're checking for chat and message accounts that use her email address? It takes just a few minutes to set up a new email address. She could have dozens you know nothing about, and she could use those email accounts to open other Facebook, Twitter, and other accounts. As for phones, burner phones are cheap. They have lots of ways to stay in touch.

GET TESTED FOR STDS. DO NOT HAVE SEX WITH HER AGAIN UNTIL YOU HAVE CONFIDENCE THAT SHE WILL NOT HAVE SEX WITH ANOTHER MAN AGAIN. PLEASE.

If you have sex with her again when you clearly feel you have no reason to trust her, she has shown no remorse, and instead of working to repair the damage she did, she just wants you to get over it, you are putting yourself at risk every single time you do.

You should most definitely see a counsellor, but it should be a legal counsellor. Find a lawyer. Protect yourself. Protect your children. Protect your finances because that is how you are going to be able to take care of your children. Don't tell her that you are going to see a lawyer, just do it. Save evidence. Start an electronic diary that is encrypted with a password she won't guess and document everything that has happened and every suspicious thing she has done. You never know when it might become essential.

You should probably set up your own individual bank accounts. If you have direct deposit, set it up to go to your individual accounts. Don't clean out the joint accounts, but you can probably safely take half. Ask your lawyer for advice about it. Store your essential records in a safe place she cannot access. Make copies of important records and get a family member or friend to hold onto them.

I hate that you are having to go through this.

I understand that when you have been married for so long, it can be hard to let go of that investment, but instead of asking whether you can save your marriage, you need to take a realistic look at what she did and ask yourself whether that is really the person you want to spend the rest of your life with. If a woman did that to your son, would you want him to just forgive her and move on so she could continue to enjoy financial stability?

I think you should start operating on the assumption that the marriage is over. If she is truly capable of remorse, you can reconcile later, but if you do not take steps to protect yourself legally and financially RIGHT NOW, you could be screwing yourself.

Best of luck to you.

Kicked, I'm sorry you are here.

There are several BIG red flags.

1. Your WW says "she's not sure you'll make it though this". She's threatening you. You've already shown her that you are trying to "fix" the M. She sees that's what you want. She is saying "don't push me too far or you will lose me".

2. You say your WW "want to move past this". She doesn't like being reminded that she is a lousy person, a liar and a cheater. No one does. She wants you to forget it so she doesn't have to deal with the consequences of her actions.

You need to see a lawyer and start the 180 today. Let her know that her ACTIONS are telling you that she is not serious about this and it is not YOUR responsibility to fix this. She broke your trust, lied to you, etc. She needs to ACT to prove to you that she can be trusted, and right now she is not.

You also need to remember that your WW is a liar. Do not believe anything she says. Assume everything is a lie. She told you they only had sex once. Every WS tells this lie.

You really need to distance yourself from this and try to figure out how you feel and what you want. Focus on yourself. Don't let her influence your decisions.

Hi again Kicked,

I read your second post and thought I'd chime in again. I was a lot like you in the early days.

A little background:

My wife had an affair with a coworker for six months. I began to suspect something was off and outright confronted her on two occasions. She denied. The first time she said "he would be mortified if he knew you thought we were having an affair". Second time she insinuated he was too "unattractive" and I must be crazy for imagining it. So, I believed my wife.

She wound up confessing after the OM's wife discovered the evidence and was about to tell me. My wife only confessed because she had to. Like you, I thought she was a "good girl" who was conned by a predator. I was in shock and tried to fix everything. I did all the work finding counselors and marriage counselors and bought all the books etc. I wanted her to quit her job. Basically I fumbled around doing all the wrong things for months trying to solve a problem I didn't create. She stayed in the job for 8 months and every day it was as if she slapped me in the face and said fuck you. I eventually joined this site and got my bearings but by then I was a mess. I finally realized my wife wasn't a victim she was an active participant in betraying me and using me.

The truth in the end was much worse than my initial thoughts of "my wife was conned". The truth is that my wife knew what infidelity would do to a marriage. She experienced it as a wife in her first marriage and as a child when her dad cheated on her mom and left with his affair partner. My wife chose to cheat on me knowing what the damage would be. She hid it from me. She lied and she would have taken it to her grave if not caught by the other man's wife. There are more details but I'll spare you. Bottom line is that nobody cheats by accident. No one is talked into it by someone else. It is a choice and they know it's wrong. They know it will hurt their spouse.

Your wife is showing classic signs that all cheaters do. They lie until caught. They blameshift. They rewrite marital history to justify how you drove them to do it. They make threats etc.

This is how you deal with it. Step one is to look in the mirror and say "I have been wronged". Step two is to expose this to her affair partners wife if he is married. Step theee is to expose her at work if she works with her AP. Tell her family what she did. Tell your family what she did. Get a lawyer and serve her divorce papers. She oh have to take total control of the situation.

My wife and I are still married 4 years after her affair. We are actually doing pretty well. But it didn't get better until I hit the extreme anger phase and began my scorched earth policy.

Now, you're about to go through some extreme emotions. It's normal. Infidelity is a serious trauma. I suggest you get into counseling for yourself. Screw marriage counseling until way down the road after your wife becomes a decent human being. If she doesn't you'll at least have divorce papers in the works.

I'm sorry you're dealing with this. Listen to what folks here say. It sounds counterintuitive but it's the truth. Good luck!

For full disclosure.

To this point I have described my WW actions/attitudes from my perspective.

I monitor her electronic communications. She knows I watch her texts. She doesn't know about the other forms I monitor.

The day after I confronted her about the A, she messaged her friend that I know about her AP.

The following is a transcript:

"It is my fault... I should have stopped all contact a long time ago..

He's been tracking my phone. He picked up my conversation Friday evening and Sunday Morning..

We both realize we contributed to our marriage getting to this point.. I "heart emoji" my husband and want to be with him more then anything...

He makes me happy.. We are going to work on our marriage and seek counseling..."

Remember, she doesn't know or suspect I am monitoring this particular communication format. I believe this is truth from her.

Her friend says some supportive stuff.

WW:"I cant go out with anyone anymore.. I need to regain his trust if I can.. And I understand where he's coming from."

Friend:"Yes, everything happens for a reason you guys will get through this"

WW:"I know we will.. He's the love of my life.. And I want to spend the rest of my life with him.."

Friend: (more supportive comments/warnings based on previous experiences)

WW:"Our marriage was broken a long time ago but I will do whatever it takes to piece it back together.. (My name) is my everything and I know from the beginning that he was going to be my husband.. I still feel that way.."

Friend:"Good. Then your actions will show that when the heat is on"

WW:"I know it's not going to be easy.. My marriage has to be top priority.. I realize it will take a long time.."

This was written the day after I confronted her.

Opinions?

[This message edited by KickedAside at 12:29 PM, December 6th (Thursday)]

She's looking for support from someone else, so she'll say what she knows will get her support.

Sorry man, but if this is how she treats the love of her life....cheating, gaslighting, deflecting,minimizing, ignoring your feelings and downright acting as if what you feel doesn't matter...if that's how she treats the live of her life, that's worse than ppl treat their enemies.

[This message edited by GoldenR at 1:14 PM, December 6th (Thursday)]

Opinion: implement the hard 180. Watch and see whether she puts in the work and effort to come to you, heal you, win you.

I agree. 180 and watch for actions. So far her actions are to tell you she doesn't think the marriage will make it. Translation: she has another option. (The om). Shut it down hard. When she doesn't have options is the only time she'll be a candidate for reconciliation.

Actions, not Words are what is important. Do not be so quick to believe that she doesn't know that you can see that message. She may have been standing right next to the friend and staged the conversation for you to see. Not saying she did. I'm just saying that anything she says to you or someone else has to be suspect at this time. Watch what she does. If she really wants to Reconcile from this you need some empathy. Tell her that you need to be able to talk about this. Tell her that you need to ask about the details, maybe more than once or twice. A truly remorseful WW that wants to be with you will do these things for you. A WW that wants to rugsweep and likely go back to the A will act like your WW is acting up to now. She'll tell you that you can't dwell on the past, that it needs to be behind you both and you need to move forward. Eventually she'll tell you it was a "good" thing for your relationship.

Good because in her mind it established that you don't have a partnership of equals. She is the dominant one and you will take what she gives you in this relationship and say thank you. Don't live that way. That is what happens when you rugsweep.

KickedAside:

Your WW’s initial reactions to being caught out are pretty typical. First she begs and wants to work together on the M. Later she becomes defensive when you talk about questions and consequences if she should continue her infidelity. She seems to have this entitled and selfish mindset that comes out when confronted. The gaslighting and blameshifting arise out of this attitude. She may have told her friend her sincere feelings about you and her desire for your M. Who knows. Her actions will tell you. Her words, are just that, pretty meaningless. You are doing fine. Be vigilant. She needs to get into IC to address her brokenness on how she could betray you. If she is to demonstrate she can be a safe partner for you she needs to show complete transparency and honesty. Although remorse tends to come slowly, she will need to demonstrate remorse and humility as time progresses for all the pain she has caused. Keep going. You are in control. Time is your ally.

I don't really think that she knows that you know that you know what she is saying to her friend. That's a little too Spy vs. Spy for most but I don't know her or you.

She sounds prideful, entitled, always right, pampered so maybe just maybe she is not yet at the point of taking responsibility for her actions. After all when you go thru life never admitting your faults it's hard to do it for most.

I would think, maybe wrongly that she is telling her friend the truth, the truth that she has in head at that moment. She can open up to her friend easier than to you because you are the wronged party and are way more invested than her friend, who probably cheered on the affair.

Words are just that, actions count. But sometimes it's Thoughts, Words, Actions. She may be on the right track to R. Or maybe it's too late

Keep your info gathering to yourself. Decide what you want to do, it is up to her to convince you not you to convince her to stay together.

Sorry that you had to find your way here, KickedAside, but this is a good place for you right now. Ask and answer questions. Unfortunately we're experts.

And its good to see Bigger and twisted again, hello old friends, been a while.

KA, IMHO, anyone connected to your WW's A is not to be trusted, at all. Her friend, with whom she shared and was on board with the A, is NOT your friend. She needs to go. I don't for a second believe that your WW and she didn't collude on that message you intercepted. You shouldn't either. I think it was meant for you to read and to believe, don't believe it. Perhaps eventually you will, but not now - too early.

Trust your gut.

Your WW owns this 100% - you didn't push her to AP.

Just a heads-up that R is possible. Its been 13 years since my W's A and we're still M'd. And we're happy. But there are scars.

Without full disclosure and complete transparency going forward, you will never come to be at peace with this should you decide to R.

Get sleep, stiff arm alcohol, eat, be kind to yourself as this is not your fault and continue to post.

[This message edited by sportsfan at 3:28 PM, December 6th (Thursday)]

Dear Kick,

I think your wife is playing you. I believe she knew you were monitoring her conversations and decided to give you want you wanted to hear. She has guessed the possible methods you are using to gain evidence of the affair. She is covering her butt without remorse or empathy. I would contact the OMW and expose the affair. Listen to the posters and consider their recommendations.

Best,

Bigheart

My WW has commented that she wants to be over and done with this whole situation, just move on. I keep bringing it up because I have questions/comments/concerns, she doesn't want to "dredge up old feelings and news".

This is a major strike against her, and you should see it as a total dealbreaker. As a wayward, she needs to be not only willing but eager to listen to anything you have to say no matter how difficult it is for her, and also to validate your feelings and acknowledge that she is the cause of your pain/doubts/insecurities/anger.

She clearly wants to sweep this under the rug and get back to the comfy status quo she enjoyed before she fucked everything up by cheating. This is not possible if you ever want a shot at having a healthy marriage again. She has a lot of work to do on herself and right now, she is absolutely, unequivocally not a candidate for R.

Separation with a defiant and unremorseful WW typically means more time for her to cheat without being monitored, they use it to test drive OM and if it doesn't work out they can always go back to "Plan B" (YOU), with a WW like yours I suggest SHOCK and AWE, file for D without warning and EXPOSE the A with ALL family and close friends and watch her actions, you can stop it at anytime before it's final if she comes around and BEGS you for another chance, on your terms, commits to NC FOREVER with OM and all those who knew and or enabled the A, shows true remorse (not just regret), agrees to full on demand access to all her electronic devices and passwords and signs a post-nup in your favor in case she cheats again or you decide eventually this is a deal-breaker for you, if she doesn't come around you simply let D run its course, either way you get out of infidelity. Keep posting frequently, the advice may seem harsh at times but our mission is not to sugar coat things, we call it as we see it based on the info you provide and the thousands of infidelity cases we've seen here and other forums, we've all been there so don't feel bad about it, we're here to support you.

[This message edited by Buster123 at 10:38 PM, December 6th (Thursday)]

I monitor her text messages, she knows I do. She doesn’t know I monitor her Facebook Messenger.

KickedAside

So you caught her by being smart enough to get into her text messages and she knows it. If that’s the case she should be confident that her facebook is totally secure and use it with no worries?

He probed and discovered that our marriage wasn’t perfect and filled in the void she needed.

WW:"Our marriage was broken a long time ago but I will do whatever it takes to piece it back together..

He's the love of my life.. And I want to spend the rest of my life with him.."

This was written the day after I confronted her.

Opinions?

KickedAside

So your “marriage was broken” and there were "voids that needed to be filled". That’s why the affair happened. Then within 24 hours of being caught you and the marriage are the greatest thing ever. She will walk over hot coals to save it.

And she is singing your praises to the extreme to the woman that has been listening how bad you and the marriage are for months?

You can monitor 100 ways of communication and they will find 101. She could have a burner phone. She might have called her friend and set up the conversation. I couldn’t write a better conversation than the one you happened to discover. Was there one negative word in the entire thing?

You need to get a voice activated recorder (VAR) and place it under her car seat or where she might use a phone.

[This message edited by Michigan at 10:38 PM, December 6th (Thursday)]

Kicked, first and foremost sorry that you are here. I read your thread and have to say I see the same bs patterns that my WW did to me (still going through it and getting divorced as of now). What Beenthereinco said “A WW that wants to rugsweep and likely go back to the A will act like your WW is acting up to now. She'll tell you that you can't dwell on the past, that it needs to be behind you both and you need to move forward” is spot on. In marriage counseling my WW literally said this exactly word for word and I believed her like an idiot. Only to find out that she was still continuing her affair. Here we are 3 months later and it’s a full blown relationship. I know it’s hard to believe the people on this forum, but they have seen infidelity in almost every shape or form and when I first started posting here I didn’t believe any of it. Ask me the same thing now and literally every thing they said would happen, happened. Once I woke up into reality I made my plan and took action. For me 2018 has been a real shit year but it’s coming to an end and I am slowly moving out of infidelity.

I hate to see marriages fall apart and people get divorced (I am very against it and take the vows seriously), but you really need a safe and remorseful partner to reconcile. Now I’m not saying your situation won’t end like that, and I want you to keep the hope, but you also need to add a sense of reality to your scenario. Believe no words and only actions. When you start to do this you will see your WW will most likely say one thing then do another. All of what your dealing with is right out of the cheaters 101 handbook. In the meantime, explore your options to protect yourself and focus on yourself and making a plan as to what you want to do. I know it’s fresh but the sooner you do this the better off you will be. Also, apply the 180 as it does wonders.

"It is my fault... I should have stopped all contact a long time ago..

He's been tracking my phone. He picked up my conversation Friday evening and Sunday Morning..

We both realize we contributed to our marriage getting to this point.. I "heart emoji" my husband and want to be with him more then anything...

She's basically saying it's her fault just for NOT STOPPING CONTACT a long time ago, not for STARTING and DECIDING to have an A in the first place, in her mind, if she HAD "stopped a long time ago" you would have never CAUGHT her cheating.

When she says "WE BOTH contributed to our M getting to this point", she's in part blaming you for her A, she's basically saying you "contributed" to HER decision to have an A. As you can see she's still blameshifting, and not remorseful, and NOT a candidate for R, not by a long shot, her convo with her "friend/A cheerleader" seems so casual, like it's not that big a deal, "we'll get through this" Oh "I can't go out anymore"..., Really !!!.

[This message edited by Buster123 at 11:09 PM, December 6th (Thursday)]

She's basically saying it's her fault just for NOT STOPPING CONTACT a long time ago, not for STARTING and DECIDING to have an A in the first place, in her mind, if she HAD "stopped a long time ago" you would have never CAUGHT her cheating.

Buster123

Buster nailed it. The sex wasn’t a bad thing to do. Nothing to feel guilty about there. What was bad was getting caught and the consequences. I’ll give her some credit and say that she may also feel bad for hurting you.

Some people just don’t think sex is a big deal and never will. The analogy I use is someone that grew up eating pork who converted to a religion where it’s a sin.

If caught they may feel bad for letting people down and hurting them. They will certainly feel bad for themselves and any consequences they suffer.

But they will never feel bad about enjoying a little bacon because there is nothing wrong with bacon.

Some of these people value their marriage for whatever reason and feel that they were faithful because they never intended to leave their BS. Again the sex was in the same category as shaking hands.

[This message edited by Michigan at 5:57 AM, December 7th (Friday)]

I don't for a second believe that your WW and she didn't collude on that message you intercepted.

This was my first thought, same as sportsfan, (hello, my brother!) From her perspective, she was caught, and assumed all her messages had been compromised, and I see this as a pre-emptive attempt at minimizing, assuming you would be reading it.

That whole trust thing, that she is being honest, needs to be questioned every second of the day, at least for awhile. I had to get a different mindset for the time immediately after discovery and exposure, my adorable sweet little wife knows how to play the game and how to manipulate, especially if she knows you're not immediately divorcing or kicking her out. Your's may be the same. You want the truth, she's still playing the game.

Tread carefully, question everything.