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So out of character for her

Think of it as character revealing. We are our actions. There’s a chance your WW truly is that person, that now she’s trying to cram the genie back in the bottle, get all of the old lies working again. Maybe she’ll find it just doesn’t work.

Or it may be that it only takes once to learn not to grab the handle of the pot on the stove, and the thought of it makes her sick now and forever. People absolutely can learn.

It takes time to figure out which is which.

I know I can’t have back what I had

What you had was a happy life of full of happy lies. Both of you wandering into an EA, one of you fully crossing the boundary to PA. Isn’t it odd that those were the good old days?

What you could potentially have is a radically honest life. If you value true, real honesty, then what you could have could be better than what you had. But frankly, when push comes to shove, most people don’t really want that. It’s up to you.

Sending strength!

[This message edited by HouseOfPlane at 9:31 AM, January 1st (Tuesday)]

BS ONLY

[This message edited by SI Staff at 3:11 PM, February 8th (Friday)]

BluesPower, you are stating a bunch of stuff you are making up and simply don’t know the truth on, as fact. How do you think lying is helpful here?

BluesPower, you are stating a bunch of stuff you are making up and simply don’t know the truth on, as fact. How do you think lying is helpful here?

BluesPower stating speculation, suspicion, and assumption as fact... say it ain’t so!

[This message edited by Drumstick at 2:46 PM, January 1st (Tuesday)]

Bluespower:

~You have a pm~

BS ONLY

[This message edited by SI Staff at 3:41 PM, February 8th (Friday)]

Thanks everyone for the diverse perspectives. It is very helpful. Every day I get more detail and more out for myself. Also had a good lunch with my best friend today. He got cheated on by a fiance and also saw his mom cheat on his dad. She appears as emotionally distraught as I am as she sees the fall out and has to spill more detail. I'm getting a lot of details and they are hard to hear just as my relaying back the facts to her is hard for her to hear and for her to understand the repercussions of what happened. I'm getting literally raunchy with some questions because I want everything and she's telling me. Not what I like to hear but trying to get everything out.

The timeline of her cutting him off in January, sporadic contact in between but not in person, her divulging it to three friends/sister in March. Silence for a stretch, he runs into her and my daughter selling Girl Scout cookies at post office (awkward), he starts texting nostalgia and desire to reconnect(which I recall seeing her being into on her phone) then she cuts off all communication four days before I find out asking him to never contact her (and her unfollowing him on social channels checks out). She said her love for him wained after the physical portion ended but it was a battle through the year as she prayed for it to go away. Her internet history shows this as an ebb and flow through the fall until decreasing to little through her breaking it off. As f'ed up as it is she says her love for me remained constant throughout. I don't need to hear that, would make more sense if it waned like mine for her when I had my EA.

Her remorse is mostly out of now seeing the harm done I think... to me, and that our marriage is in the balance. But now she's also seeing the slippery slope of the listening ear they gave each other that devolved into a kiss, a hook up and then full on penetration. She admits that the "forbidden fruit" of what she did felt great at the time because of what it was and that she wishes 100% that it never happened and felt that way even before I knew, but she certainly always hoped I never found out. She wanted to bury it on her own but now it's all coming back because of my process and it's visibly gutting her. She wants nothing to do with this guy today and supposedly never wanted to leave me for him. You can tell there are still feelings because as she said, "I don't want to think about him, I don't want to have any contact with him again, but I can't promise my thoughts won't go there but that I will pray and work hard to push them out like I did earlier this year." The OM knew all about how still still "loved" me but that didn't stop anything of their actions. A "I don't love you any more" to me would make this a lot clearer. Now it's more that my wife needs a lot of counseling to unpack how she could have the delusions that being poly was okay.

When she told me it would have been a very easy coverup. The post I saw wasn't anything about him but a weird Quora post about twin flames and it only took 3 digging questions for her to open up completely.

The "she's lying" contingent of the forum can call out the details I'm getting but everything has to be checked and taken for what it is. If they are lies they are some pretty awful things when the details have come out.

But most importantly, intimacy is off the table for a long time and I set that expectation. We talked about ground rules and expectations today as well as the counseling plan individually and other potential steps. We know our goals and that it is still really early. The support network is coming together and oh there's the life of our kids and work and other stuff that will mean this all takes time. There's a LOT to do and also for some of it to let the shock wear off. But there are ground rules like contact or secrecy that end any sort of R process.

Look I know the the veterans among you are seeing another delusional shocked spouse who is believing too much. As part of this process I have spilled all of the beans on my EA. I talked about why and how and when it happened, she knew there was someone who was on my heart and when she asked me about my feelings for people she used names of people who weren't the person "Do you have feelings for ____?" so I was certainly covering up as well even if not "lying". We are trying to be as open as we can after a long time of not being so. And what we're saying is not easy to hear.

We both want to fix our marriage however hard that road and we also don't want a shitty marriage of convenience for the kids. As much as it can be right now there's acceptance, contrition on her part and a forming plan. At some point intimacy may return or we just throw in the towel on the whole thing. The plan may change. I'm a mess, she's a mess and our marriage is a mess. But I'm empowered and moving forward.

Guys I got the PM from the moderator, So thanks.

You’re welcome. You deserved it.

Now you guys are posting on an infidelity forum, and I am to understand that you guys do not realize that his wife is lying to him.

How do you know she is lying, BluesPower? Are you his wife? If you’re not his wife, and you know she is lying, are you the PT? Are you a friend in which she confided?

I’m gonna “going to go out on a limb” here, and say that the answer to all these questions are a hard no. In other words, you don’t know jacksh*t. And all you’re statements about her lying is conjecture (i.e., opinion built upon limited information).

How many I threads have you ever seen that the WW or WH did not lie to save their ass from the very beginning.

Many yes, and many not. What is this one? You, like me, sure and the hell don’t know.

Now I get that what I wrote was too harsh for you guys, so I will tone it down.

What you wrote wasn’t too harsh. It was full of opinion laid out as fact. Half-assed, yes. Too harsh, no.

If you want to be a “straight shooter,” as I believe you claimed to be on another board, maybe you should present facts as facts, and opinion as opinion. That seems straighter-shooting than laying out opinion as fact, don’t you think?

Thanks for being so magnanimous to “tone it down.” Really, you don’t need to. You just need to present fact as fact, and opinion as opinion.

But come on, do you think a man needs hopium at the very beginning to make him think that... What it was not as bad because she screw him only 4 times.

Exactly, screwing him 4 times is bad enough. I’m not saying he shouldn’t seek the truth, and learn if it’s more, however.

I mean really is that how you are thinking.

No, what I’m thinking is that you like to view yourself as a KISA for all BSs, and have superior knowledge to all others in the realm of infidelity (by the way, does your superior knowledge comes from the affairs you’ve admitted to having on your cheating-ex on other boards?).

This original poster needs to understand that 1) Yeah, sex was way more that 4 times. If we go by other thread, on all the sites, the number is probably 40 times if we are to use a realistic approach.

Got any data to support you 40 times supposition? Ya, didn’t think so. More conjecture. In other words, you don’t know.

As if the fact that she screwed him 1 time or a hundred times actually makes a difference

.

Ding, ding, ding. Then why are you making such a big deal of it? Again, I’m not saying he shouldn’t search for the truth.

She screwed over her husband, and is expecting him to just eat the sandwich and just remember all the good times that they have had in their lives?

Everyone understands that that is cheater script 101, and what you want the guy to fall for that, so that he can sacrifice his life for a woman that disrespected him enough to screw her PT guy.

Is that how you guys recommend live ones life?

How do you know that his wife “is expecting him to just eat the sandwich and just remember all the good times that they have had in their lives?” Are you privy to conversations between them? Are you his wife? Do you know her thoughts, and feelings? Are you God, or an omniscient being? Are you the OP? Or, as I likely suspect you are, just another reader of this thread, but have no particular knowledge of the situation beyond what the OP ha written?

Where did I ever state, or imply, that I want this person to fall for cheater script 101? Can you find it? Didn’t think so. In fact, as I stated just above, I want him to continue to search for the truth.

No, I recommend that the OP continue to search for the truth. I also recommend that the OP View agenda-addled commenters with a grain of salt. Furthermore, I recommend that the OP view commenters that push supposition as fact as little more than KISAs pretending to know more than they do to make up for the fact that they cheated on their own wife.

It sounds a lot like your WW has jailhouse religion.

Having grown up in a "Church" where many were "backslidden"...

It's pure BS.

They sin, want to sin, sin some more...and they pray for forgiveness while criticizing you for questioning them because God has forgiven them and they are GOOD CHRISTIANS!!!

No thanks. To this day, when a guilty person throws some "I'm with God/Christian/Praying"...it's 100% lies. They are using it to absolve themselves without fixing anything.

Honestly...your WW made her choices with full knowledge of what she was doing and that it was wrong. She made her choice.

This should make your choice easy and clear. It's just a question of whether you are willing to do what is obviously needed.

hdybrh:

It’s good that you communicate and that she is willing to tell you facts that are hard to hear. You don’t know what your recovering from if she holds back on the gruesome details. You’ve set a course for counseling and have established ground rules and expectations and goals. As long as you both adhere to the expectations good for you, no matter what the final outcome. It gives you a framework to decide if you are making progress. Your WW seems to be moving in the direction of remorse and realizing the damage this has caused you. Time will tell. While some obviously believe your only recourse is to D, that is for you to decide. Good luck moving forward with your plan. Take care of yourself. It will be an emotional rollercoaster for a while. You are doing well.

[This message edited by fareast at 7:22 PM, January 1st (Tuesday)]

@hdybrh Best of luck to you. People might disagree with your choice no matter what but ultimatively it's your choice to make.

The reason many people bring up lying is that WS are usually in self preservation mode. It's why trickle truth and all the other stuff aswell as the excuses for them exist and are a constant in many cases. There's some folk who go "YOU CAN'T EVER KNOW THAT!" but please understand that they do so every time, in every thread. While some people default to always expecting the absolute worst, others do the opposite and demand absurd and unrealistic ammounts of proof to reach any kind of conclusion. In many ways this seems to be self preservation on their own part, as it hits too close to home for them.

, her divulging it to three friends/sister in March.

This one, this one right here is important. Do you know these friends, have you met them at any point, are they still around? No matter what, these friends were part of the affair even if just by proxxy. They knew what was going on and unless they strongly disagreed with her and told her to knock it off and even then if they were mutual friends they absolutely HAVE to go.

This is obviously a lot harder for her sister but personally I'd see no way to ever interact with her again. She knew about it and helped your wife cover it up and deceive you.

This is obviously a lot harder for her sister but personally I'd see no way to ever interact with her again. She knew about it and helped your wife cover it up and deceive you.

Hdybrh,

Or you could act like a rational person, and instead of making an ASSumption that her sister/friends “helped cover it up and deceive you,” you could investigate if this Is true. Then, you could make an appropriate decision, such as cutting them out of your life, if they did help cover up her affair, based on the information. Just a thought.

Eh, I kinda think Marauder is right on this one.

Anybody that knew the affair was happening and knew you, is guilty too. Screw them. They knew you were being betrayed and didn't respect you enough to pick up the phone.

That would be more than enough for me to cut them out of my life forever. They had a moment where their integrity was tested and they failed. They failed in a way that hurt you personally.

Heck with them. Nobody needs friends like that.

Marauder is right about the proof thing too. I'm dealing with some of that, so I'm kinda biased here...but how much proof do you need before you can make a decision?

I had someone say to me "Do you actually need to see some guy with his dick in your wife before you can make up your mind"...and it hurt me...but it had a point to it that I needed to hear.

When there is doubt, there is no doubt.

So when she confided in her friends they all told her she was an idiot and needed to totally break off contact with the guy. It was after she close it off (talked to them in March, last sex in January). I know these people and I also know the people she's going to confide in now. She's in for a lot of getting called out and was then. Should those people have told me? Maybe, or encouraged her to tell me? She told them after it was over to her.

That was around the time she asked me what I thought about her "friend" and being poly, the damage was done but she was trying to see how easy it would be to confess. I remember telling her that it was BS and how much it would hurt the husband. And here we are.

[This message edited by hdybrh at 7:43 PM, January 1st (Tuesday)]

Hdy, everybody processes at their own speed. Read in the healing library and the best advice I can give is keep looking to your own heart for what would be best. I am a few days away from one year from d day. It still feels raw and so know that these feelings dont just go. They will be around for some time.

If your wife has the courage for complete honesty, thats great and you are lucky. I wish you well in your journey. The best advice I have is to keep your health up, manage stress, if you are angry, keep it fair and do not verbally abuse your wife if you are entertaining hopes of a loving R in the future. Whatever comes, you can say that you stood in integrity and compassion. Egos take a beating and its important to feel that you did the best you could at the lowest time in life.

Or you could act like a rational person, and instead of making an ASSumption that her sister/friends “helped cover it up and deceive you,” you could investigate if this Is true. Then, you could make an appropriate decision, such as cutting them out of your life, if they did help cover up her affair, based on the information. Just a thought.

I really don't understand how you get away with insulting other forum goers quite regularly. Further you're happily misinterpreting what people are saying just so you can engage in moral grandstanding.

Also we now know they were mutual friends and knew OP. While they seemingly did disagree with her actions and told her to knock it off, good on them. Not a single one had the decency to inform OP about what was going on and they would've happily kept him in the dark, very much not good on them.

Which puts them into a weird state of limbo. Ultimatively the decision is up to op. But he now knows these "friends" can be told his wife is having an affair and will not inform him about it, which solely due to inaction is them helping to cover it up and keep it under wraps.

Hdybrh

Your fear of divorce and its consequences… Imagine someone draws a 20-yard line with a chalk on the road and asks you to walk on it. No problems, right? Might even step off it but you would do it anyway. Now imagine that 20-yard line was a wire stretched in the air between two buildings and you HAD to cross it…

Totally different…

You would go slowly, carefully, thoughtfully… realizing the danger and risk.

Just like right now. You need to realize that divorce is a possible outcome. So, does your wife. You both need to know that IF this isn’t dealt with then divorce is probably the best outcome for YOU. You wouldn’t allow yourself or your wife to handle this as flippantly as you might the chalk-line, but demand of both of you that this be dealt with seriously.

Research divorce in your state. Get a clear picture of how that option would work out for you. Might even sit your wife down and ask her how she sees divorce and how she thinks that might work out. Not because you want divorce, but rather because you don’t want to share her.

What I fear most in this situation is the drama.

Your WW can hide behind romantic and exotic terms like polyamory, love, growing emotions… She gets to post in forums about her “problem”. She gets to share with friends… she is the center of attention. She is all so secretive and exciting…

It’s all cloudy and romantic. It’s all white-knight riding unicorns versus the Zorro-type that knocks her off her feet and then having to make the ultimate sacrifice of her own happiness to be with safe old husband and kids. Heck… she might even look up OM profile on FB and sigh at how good she was by sacrificing him…

And you – well… you play along in it. You are the Richard Gere type of person that suffers in silence hoping she chooses you… In some ways you are willing to sacrifice yourself to protect your children…

Oh boo hoo. Get the Kleenex.

Start calling things by the right terms.

She didn’t have a love-affair. She cheated. She had an affair. This is infidelity.

He wasn’t a nice guy. He pursued and had sex with a married woman knowing off her husband and that he didn’t agree or accept the sex.

You don’t “fall” in love. You allow it to happen. You create love. There was no instant spark that made her be in love with OM. It was a development and at so so so many points on that development she could have walked away.

This wasn’t polyamory according to the “classical” definition. All relationships are bound by ground-rules – written and expected. Even polyamorous relationships usually require all participants to be in the know. By acting on her alleged “love” she was breaking those rules.

Don’t allow her to hide behind nice terms. It’s a bit like an escort is just a nice term for whore. Call things what they really are. This wasn’t polyamory – it was an affair.

She probably loved you all the time, but her actions were not loving.

Remove the drama.

Call this an affair.

Call OM an asshole.

Call her claim of polyamory the b@llshit it really is.

It’s retrospective justification for her action. For her DECISSION to have an affair.

Tell her that she needs to see this in the same serious light you do.

You BOTH have to realize that you are threading yourself along a thin wire high in the air and that this needs to be taken seriously. SHE had an affair. That’s it.

Bluespower: No we don’t diminish pain here on SI or avoid reality. But the crude comments you made only serve to increase pain. We don’t believe in causing pain. Going by assumptions is never a good way to go. If this site isn’t to your taste, then there are other infidelity sites with other rules. I have a feeling you already know where to head…

I honestly can't think of one thread where the WS came totally clean and lied about nothing.

If she is looking up on twin flames now, she may still have feelings for him. I agree that there is more to the story unfortunately.

As for frequency, my husband had a 3 year affair and only had sex 6 times. The OBS works from home and they live 2 hours away. Plus it is likely that she had other APs. There were hours of texting and phone calls in between meetings. They may have had sex 4 times but may have met for dates other times.

You can tell there are still feelings because as she said, "I don't want to think about him, I don't want to have any contact with him again, but I can't promise my thoughts won't go there but that I will pray and work hard to push them out like I did earlier this year."

She obviously still harbors feelings for him and as long as that is the case she's not a good candidate for R, not by a long shot, she needs intense IC to find out her "whys" and how she made the DECISION to have an A.

Since she described the sex with OM as "Amazing", there's a good chance she's minimizing, she claimed she loved him at the time and that the "forbidden fruit" aspect made it exciting, so why would she limit sex to just 4 times during the entire A ? not that the frequency matters much but it's the fact that she could still be lying about it, and if that's the case, she's not remorseful, keep digging, if you read enough here you will find that TT and minimizing are in the first chapters of the so called "Cheater's Handbook".

R is hard enough with a complete remorseful WW who now HATES OM, in your case she still has feelings for him and hoped you never found out, that's not remorse, just regret.

[This message edited by Buster123 at 4:27 AM, January 2nd (Wednesday)]