SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I filed for divorce in sept 2014 and got to the end and R. Of course it was fake, real to me.

Anyway I’m amending the filing in california. Since then we bought a house he lives with his whore since May.

I want to keep the house so I wanted to refi before I got to the courts. Now I’m thinking it’s better we go thru courts and ask to refi. He changes his mind he uses it against me he has access to my house because he pays 1/2 the mortgage. I think I can manage the house but it will be very tight. I was thinking of renting it for a year or selling it after refi.

Why? Bc whorebag wants my equity for her home and wh wit as for equity if I keep it.

He told me Monday if we sell he’s going for 50/50 custody

Uh no. He isn’t a great parent into his midlife crises or childless life with the whore so I can barley have his do homework one day a week with the kid. He gets him every other week for less then 24hours and is Disney dad and whore is the great fake bitch and my son likes her.

I’m scared not gonna lie. I want to make the right decision

California sucks for bs. 50/50 state.

Any advice?

Boosting this.

What has your lawyer said?

I don't want to bring you down, but you may not have a choice but to go 50/50. I don't live in CA, but from what folks have posted in the past, it is the default unless there is some truly egregious behavior.

He isn’t a great parent into his midlife crises or childless life with the whore so I can barley have his do homework one day a week with the kid.

This ^^ is likely going to have no bearing on it, and whether or not you keep the house won't either. They are separate issues.

I would wait until after the D is final to refi. Why? Because you don't know what the actual outcome will be. You may be forced to sell, in which case the money you pony up for closing costs to refi may be lost. You want that court stamp saying, unequivocally, that you are getting the marital home in the settlement, and the conditions for that. Once you have that official approval, then you move forward with refi.

In my case, I wanted (and got) the marital home and all equity. I had it stipulated that I would not have to refi until I could get the same or better interest rate as the prevailing mortgage. Xhole had tanked both our credit with his financial irresponsibility, and I knew I would get slammed with a higher interest rate unless I could wait until I improved my score. Took me three years, but I finally reached a point where I got an even better interest rate than what we had. But because I had the court order stipulating I could wait, he could do nothing about the fact that he was also tied to the mortgage (ties up his credit as well, not that it mattered to him) until I refinanced. Sucked to be him.

Ultimately, talk to your attorney about how it may play out in your jurisdiction and the best way to proceed.

[This message edited by Phoenix1 at 2:40 PM, January 11th (Friday)]

I saw my lawyer, california sucks

She did answer all my questions I had.i was a little disappointed with what I could include to get his equity down since he’s been out of our home since May.

We came up with a plan I would email him what I want and ask him to chose options

My son told me that ow asks about me in particular and is and everything and he does too. This got me super upset and led me to be more honest with my kid about his dad and that woman. Ds9 told me dad told him that the reason we were getting divorced was bc we argued too much and that he felt it was the best to leave. Mind you he forgot to mention her and ow were having an affair the arguing was him yelling at me because I never did anything right and that he has any fault i this whole thing.

I told my son that Dad is married she Knew he was married. Kinda convo in the simplest form possible. That he was the one that was not happy and would yell to recall no need to explain more and that it’s not ok or normal to do that to a wife or family. I asked kid not to give more info to dad or ow as he’d come back and get upset at me (yes wh threatens me all the time if I talk bad about the ow-so since June I don’t talk about her with the kid) I told kid I’m done lying or ommiting information for your dad. If you ask me I will tell you the truth.

So I did remind him several times about what he said to ow and dad. Well kid was grilled and dad is now texting me to it grill kid about what he tells him. That I’m hard on him and to take it easy. I’ve gotten several text about how I’m hard on my son while we go through this separation from wh like he’s trying to taunt me and also to document. These are all

One sided and I’ve ignored now but they do leave me shaking

I hate putting son in middle.

To taunt me more he gave me his word he would not bring ow near my home. He brought kid 1.5hrs late with the woman and parked the car

Down the street.

Again this is how he is.

Always breaking promises

Sorry venting but he really gets under my skin.

"California courts are not supposed to consider infidelity or any other fault when granting a divorce. However, judges can consider the financial impact a partner's adultery might have on the non-straying spouse. In rare cases, a judge might consider if the adultery had any effect on the children of the marriage."

And:

"Infidelity or adultery hasn’t been defined by law but most agree that when one partner has a sexual liaison with his/her lover without the consent of his spouse, he has committed a grave indiscretion. However, it can’t be a ground for divorce alone.

However, infidelity can have some impact on the alimony that the dependent or the poorer spouse can demand. Since California is a community property state, whatever property is acquired by the couple during the period of marriage, will be equally distributed among the partners. Both have equal rights, except on properties acquired through inheritance or received as a gift.

Hence, if the wronged partner can prove that the cheating partner has spent a certain portion of the joint income on his/her lover, a judge can accept the submission and order him/her to reimburse the amount that was spent on the other person, to his spouse."

Edited to clarify that I copied and pasted the above. I did it from my iPad and see the quote marks didn't make it.

[This message edited by josiep at 1:05 PM, January 14th (Monday)]

I hate putting son in middle

Then don't.

I adopted a policy years ago of this: If my children know about "it" (whatever "it" may be), then my ex knows about it. Be it what we had for dinner, what we did over a weekend . . . if they knew, I figured he would eventually know.

So I have a choice. If it's something that the kids "should" know about (i.e. what we did over a weekend), then I have to accept that the ex knows about it. I will NOT ask my children to lie to him or to keep things from him (it's actually in our decree this way).

If I don't want him to know something AND it's something the children don't need to know, then I don't tell them. It's really that simple. I arranged my time so that they didn't know who I was dating or IF I was dating, etc.

You ARE putting your child in the middle. You can't control what he does, but you can control what you do.

Cat

Catwoman- for a normal ex it would be easy to use what you are doing with your ex. Mine, is bpd and also uses my silence to tell lies and omitted the truth. I’ve allowed this because he scared me into it and now I won’t lie for him. My son asked and I told him the truth. Wh’s Accounts for his actions are one sided of course in his favor.

I told my son yesterday that once the divorce is final

We won’t have to deal with this. It will all be in our papers. I wanted to keep my son from harm but his father is trying to make me be the bad person. I’ve maintained my stability I’ve maintained my relationship with my son. Wh has needed ow and has been disneydad often returning our son late to our agreed upon time without giving me notice, gave me his word he’d never bring her near my home and taunting me while on vacation that he would be here with her because he pays 1/2 the mortgage. He has no respect for my space.

This is ending now.

Josie’s-yes my lawyer did say that I can get all financial statements to prove he was spending our marital money with her. He’s cheap. So it wouldn’t be like others here. I will use that leverage to get this ball rolling.

I don’t ever want him back. I want this dissolved quickly and have very limited communication with him. He justifies himself with fighting me. He has no shame he has no respect.

This would make anyone crazy.

And to think I trusted him against my own gut. He gaslit me and made me feel bad

For doubting him for not leaving my family for him

When he felt they didn’t like him. It was his own demons at work. His own family doesn’t like him but I felt

Bad they are dysfunctional.

In the end I’m dealing with someone that not only cheats

But wants to rewrite history.

It’s hard going through this but I’m no longer backing down.

Catwoman- for a normal ex it would be easy to use what you are doing with your ex

My ex is a diagnosed narcissist. I wrote the book on not normal. My position still stands.

Cat

Catwoman-im glad you’ve figured something that worked for you.

I’ve read articles on narcs and I’d be very interested in reading a your book and your experience to get to where you are now. Most of the material I’ve read seem to shed light on what patterns my wh is taking (gaslighting, Black white, projection, triangulating etc.)

I’ve tried for 18 months to not involve my son, and wh has used it against me and continues to taunt me and threaten me.

I felt my son was asking me for answers and since wh does not play fair or keep his word or tries to be neutral and feeds lies I cannot continue this. It may not be your way, but I’ve kept changing as wh keeps on instigating me.

And I will continue to adapt and continue to ask of this forum for help. I’ve learned so much from you all!

Thanks

Aquiestoy - xwh here is likely undiagnosed Borderline PD with high NPD tendencies as well. He has used many lies and rewriting of history and twisting of truths directly to and in front of our kids, so I think I have some understanding of that with which you are dealing. (He's even tried to change history with our two youngest by saying he was present at an event when he was no where around - in fact, he was most likely with mow at the time instead! Both kids knew without a doubt he wasn't there, so it upset them greatly he would insist he was.... Add to that he seems to have also insinuated mow was there as well, and she most definitely was not, and well..... You begin to see how he is trying to replace me even in the kids' memories with mow.... Ugh... but I digress....)

Even with that, and despite that mow, with xwh's support, was filing false police reports and frivolous/false court cases against me, all with the goal of having me arrested/jailed, I tried, and still try, hard, to keep the kids out of it. (And mine were all older kids/teens through the D process, too....) It wasn't easy, and downright impossible at the end, as the only way to prove my innocence in one of the court cases, due to a fabricated document created by mow as "evidence", was to bring my oldest into the fray. (Really, mow/xwh brought the child into it, though I had to be the one to ask that child come to court, for my defense....) That said, I never discussed anything with the kids that I didn't expect may well get back to xwh; I also didn't tell them not to tell him something, save things that I said were mine to tell him at the proper time. (I didn't want him messing with my vacation plans, for example, so would discuss the planning with the kids, for their input, but would let them know I would tell their father when it is time that I should, per the order/agreement between us, but, for now, it is just for us to know as we plan.) I resigned myself that anything done around or with the kids would possibly get to xwh, in part as I felt it likely (and it was hinted at by the kids) xwh was grilling them just for such info. Anything I didn't/don't want getting back to xwh, the kids do not know, unless they absolutely must, and then I know I am just taking my chances on xwh knowing.

All that said, if my child(ren) asks a question, I answer it honestly, though limited to what was asked and not more; however, sometimes that answer has been "that's something that is for us parents to discuss, and not for you to worry about" or "I wish I could give you the answer you seek, and maybe someday I can, but, for now, I am, and your father is, constrained by the court order not to discuss it with you." If, though, I learn xwh has lied to the child(ren) about something, I do address it directly, without calling xwh a liar outright, and tell them the truth, or, often, ask them questions designed to get them to discover the truth on their own, if that is possible. (And, if it is something which is not supposed to be discussed with the child due to the order, I consider that no longer applying, since xwh had already done so - but I still only address the ones xwh did and nothing more.)

I agree that a BPD will often put the child in the middle already. I feel it my responsibility, then, to try to move the child out from the middle, to the extent possible. That means, if xwh tries to use the child to send messages, I don't discuss the message with the child, but empower the child for next time to tell Dad that he/she isn't comfortable passing messages and ask that Dad take that to Mom directly instead. It is up to you, with gauging the importance of the matter, if you then also go directly to stbxwh with the response to the message sent via the child, or wait for the direct contact from stbxwh to happen first instead. I have been known to tell the child that if dad wants to discuss that with me, he knows how to contact me/has my number/email, and then to drop it/change the subject. (Caveat: I don't tell the child to say that to xwh, only in the form of reminding the child that is the case, which then frees the child from the messenger duties, since they know the two parents do have ways to communicate directly instead.)

One thing about those texts from stbxwh, the ones you feel he may be trying to use to document: crickets is best in most cases, but if you feel he may be trying to document, to make some sort of case with them, then the best response I have heard is to simply state that you always strive to do what is best for the child, or to handle these things in a manner that is best for the child - and then drop it, or, if necessary, rinse and repeat, no matter what stbxwh says back. You could even thank him for the reminder that neither of you are to speak with the child about X matter, noting you know that is best for the child and strive to do the best thing for him/her.... In a way, it is not directly responding to the specific accusation, but it is addressing the overall issue, and speaks to the one big overall issue you feel he is trying to hit you with, with documenting. (It takes away his ammo - he's not going to like it, but, then, you don't like what he said to you in the first place either....)

On the bringing the OW around, I get how you feel disrespected, as I want mow to completely disappear, but at least she was down the street - another poster here at SI had the stbxws bring the AP into the driveway, had AP screaming at the poster, and had to call police each time, just to, eventually, bring back peace. Some others have had PO against the AP, to keep them away completely, as the stbxws would bring them, just to get a rise out of the one who posted it here. I know it isn't how you want it, but consider that, warped as it may be, stbxwh may feel he is honoring keeping mow away, since she's not on the property, or even just at the bottom of the driveway. (And it is better for the child if you don't show angst at this; if you must protest with stbxwh, do it privately, in writing, or, better, through your lawyer, and don't let the kids see. If you react in person, you have to know stbxwh is going to speak ill of you to the child for it as they drive away....) No, I don't like accepting "crumbs", but sometimes, it is all they have to give.... They simply aren't able to give the whole thing.

Really, the bigger problem there, and where your focus should be (see, he has you distracted by having the ow there, when this is what should upset you the most...), is that he brought the child back late, and that it was very late past the return time. I hope you documented and gave that info to your lawyer. Also, it may be worth asking your lawyer if you should call the police next time he is late, for a report to be made, and at what point it should be done. (Five minutes is not the time to do it, obviously, but should it be that 30 minutes passed, or an hour, or what? How does that advice change if he made contact about going to be tardy? Also, if he has made any contact to tell you of the tardiness, make sure it is in writing, and respond to ask he arrive as soon as is safely possible now, and, in the future, bring the child by X time, as noted in the order as the return time.)

In the end, I think one thing that helps when dealing with this personality is to continue the idea of it being "all business" - much is said here on SI as thinking of dealing with the D process as being "business", but I think that continues on for us. It isn't at all easy, as they know where your buttons are and how to push them just right, but if you can keep the emotions at bay and behave in a business-like, professional manner toward him and all his antics, it will help you greatly. It has me, at least.... That's not to say I haven't screamed into my pillow, or cried in the shower, or vented to IC or a friend in private, but I have done my best to show zero emotion to xwh at all, and the less he feels he is able to upset me, the less he seems to try, now - it took a bit of time and we went through some escalation in attempts by him, but he now at least presents a front of civility in all direct communications. (And he had gotten quite nasty at times, too, previously....) That in no way is to say his behaviors have completely done a 180, as he still does stupid stuff to/with the kids, but I only handle that by assisting the kids with handling it, empowering them to deal in a healthy manner, and say nothing to xwh directly. (It does help that my kids are older, but your will grow older as well, and get there, too.)

I hope this has helped in some way - take what does, discard the rest.... and hang in there, as gradually there will be less and less contact as the kids get older, which means more and more opportunity for you to have peace in your life again.

Wiser-thank you.

Yes dealing with bpd is so draining. On the flip side, nc works wonders.

I’ve gone crickets 🦗 85% of the time. I am documenting the tardiness as it happens all the time. He has no regard for my time or my space (he comes to my home eats my food because he lays 1/2 the mortgage. Many have told me to make many fun recipes and let him eat that...I believe in karma and I’ve gotten as better at not letting this get to me but the Taunting of him in my home with other woman going thru my stuff while I’m away is an new he’ll. Yes he knows the buttons to push he does this to justify his actions

My son told me today that he told his dad that the house wasn’t the same without him and wh responded by telling our son that my brother had to step up to the plate when my dad died and that he’s a great because of it. Yes, the same brother that wh wants to kick his ass and same brother he goes off on.

In the end he never a knowledged kids feelings and gaslit and then Kid asked me about death and how I felt. I had to have the talk with him and how death is natural and can be scary but not to worry.

Glad I can vent here

Your STBXH is an interesting fellow. Too bad we can't sell him to science so they can carve him up and study his inner workings.

A, you have come so far since you first arrived here. And I think you're right on the verge of breaking that emotional attachment you still have. And you will feel 1000% better when that happens. Cuz right now you are living in crazy land and that has to stop, preferably sooner than later.

Gently, let me point out that you are still basing your thoughts, feelings and actions on him in some way. If I say this, he'll do that. He said this so I have to do that. That's no way to live and I'm not criticizing you for it, just pointing it out so you realize you are not crazy. You are just in a place that makes you feel that way.

But the one thing that really bothers me is him coming into your home. I'm not an attorney but I just don't think that's allowed or permissible anywhere. He left and established residency elsewhere, therefore it's no longer his home. Period. Doesn't matter who makes the payments. Just like landlords can't go into your home and eat your food if you're a renter. It's your home. You have sole and private use of it.

I wish you could spend time with my counselor. She's very spiritually based and is really helping me find peace within myself and I really think that would help you so much because there is nothing you can do about him or the way he behaves Nor will there be in the future as he flies further off the rails into whatever place he's spiraling down toward. The only thing you can change is how you react to it and wouldn't it be wonderful to just be able to smile and say, yep, there he goes again. C'mon sonny, let's go get us some ribs for dinner.

About your DS and the X.

Do you think it might take the pressure off you a little bit if you just open the door and say Hello and Goodbye when he comes and goes? Not put any restraints on whether she's in the car or not? Just open the door, quick kiss, goodbye, see you later and close door.

And not ask DS any questions about where they went or what they did? Maybe you'd feel better if you act like it's his private time. If he tries to talk to you about it, tell him that his Dad doesn't want him talking about anything they do together so unless he's been in an unsafe or bad situation, the two of you should respect his Dad's request and not discuss it. I think if you're able to do this, DS will realize that things are calmer and he'll soon figure out that keeping his mouth shut about what goes on in your house should stay between just you and him.

And don't expect his homework to be done when he gets home. Just stay out of it. If DS goes to school with homework undone, let DS and X figure it out. Not your problem. Not your monkey. Not your circus. If DS calls you crying, have him call his Dad to fix it. If the school calls you the day after he's been with the X, give the school his number and let him handle it.

IOW, start extricating yourself from their time together. I know it's heartbreaking but you're trying to control something that can't be controlled by you. So maybe sign up for a class on Dad night and don't arrive back home until time for DS to get home (so Dad can't bring him home early for you to help him with homework). Join a meetup group. Get your hair done. Anything. But make that time your own.

I don't mean to sound like a know-it-all. I just think of things that might help and throw them out there. If you think this might help, run with it. If not, that's OK, too. Hang in there, Mom!