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My cheater brought her AP into the house before I could shake her off the bottom of my shoe too, and I comforted myself by considering...

What kind of man comes into another man's house to see his piece of ass?

The universe has a way of penalizing these people... they have to live every day thinking that ALL people are at least as shitty as they are. That's not an easy way to go through life.

Keep it up, Director, you're doing great, and you'll be on the way back up in no time (though I know it doesn't feel that way right now).

Just found out that she is asking for primary care. Wants our son to only see me 1 night a week and every other weekend. This is exactly what she asked for initially in the beginning so I'm honestly not surprised, but my lawyer is and was pissed. Said he can't wrap his head around how flawed her moral compass is. He was going to call her lawyer before responding and saying my response to just try and have a convo about how he truly feels in this situation.

By the end of tomorrow I would assume we'll have a mediation date set.

[This message edited by director23 at 12:25 PM, June 24th (Monday)]

She has to have the world's worst attorney...or you should have her evaluated.

I'm serious. She has to be in some sort of mental health crisis or her lawyer has a kid to put through college because no way in hell is she getting primary custody. It's not even remotely a close call.

Director, of course she's going to ask for it. Doesn't mean she'll get primary custody. Her attorney may even have advised her that she probably won't but at the end of the day, the WW is the client. I wouldn't stress about what shes asking for, they typically ask for the world. Its a part of negotiating.

That is also the reason why when you had the opportunity when she threatened to harm herself that you call the police. That type of evidence will help you put her down to earth when she ask for full custody. No judge is going to give primary custody to someone whoses not in their right mind. Next time, call the cops and get it documented.

Good luck bro... Do not give up or give in.

As for her, the AP, OC, and your kid.. There's nothing you can do about her having them all together.. once the D is final..

My WW has had her new BF's kids with mine and even tho they do not get along at all.. There's nothing I can do about it.. Not until it becomes an unsafe environment.. Which I have to admit.. is not the case.. WW at least manages that ok.

I have to admit, this new guy (I have nothing against him) at least is not an alcoholic like AP is..

Not to mention, AP is still in the picture.. and even when they were 100% together.. There was nothing I could do about that either.. His kids and family would be around my kids all the time.

Your soon to be ex-wayward wife (SXWW) likely is like some others, she has realized she cannot manipulate you to remain in the marriage.

Once this realization occurs be prepared for your SBXWW to default to it is all about "me." She will attempt to get in settlement more than is equitable or allowed by the court.

She likely is looking at custody equals more child support or money in her pocket.

I am glad your attorney has responded accordingly.

Regarding the other man, he is being reeled in for a paycheck (child support) in my opinion as well. A few posts back she was done with him....now when reality has set in she will go after him too. Somehow (based on past shitty behavior) I do not get the impression he is the type of person to provide for and take care of his child on his own.

Keep the mediation and divorce process moving forward. Significant healing is expedited once you do not have to be involved in the crazy making of a SXWW.

LBC summed him up pretty good. I would hate to know that I had to be sneaking in another individual's home to see my child....pathetic!

These guys are right... asking isn't getting. I do think it would serve you well to set up a home environment for your little guy though. Courts look for stability, and they really don't care about what happened in the marriage. It's about the best interests of the child. So I would think your home environment needs to be comparable (or better) than what she can provide.

You said she's still looking for ways to keep the house? She's already brought the OM over. I'm thinking she probably wants to get child support going. He was only 23 years old in your opening post though and working a blue collar job at the time, so the pickings there are going to be pretty slim. If she can get more physical custody established, she's probably thinking she can get more child support.

Talk with your attorney about what the court will be looking for and start moving on being a superior candidate for joint or primary custody. I saw a study many years ago which said that fathers don't fight for custody as often as mothers, but when they do, they have a good success rate.

I must say, the thing that really blows me away is her having the AP in your home while you’re still married. If you were to take her previous words at face value 🙄🤮, she couldn’t live without Director. She would do everything in her power to prove that she was a safe partner so perhaps in the future, you two could restart your relationship.

But the proof is in the pudding. You’re not even divorced yet and she is disrespecting you yet again. She could have brought the baby to her moms house. She could have met this POS in a hundred different places, yet she decided that YOUR house was the most appropriate. Un-friggin-believable.

Keep moving forward Director.

You didn't do what she wanted so now she's going to try and punish you for it.

What she wants but gets will be 2 different things.

As I said up front limited contact as much as possible is you're only good path.

As I mentioned I found out Monday that she was asking for physical care; asking being the key word.

On Wednesday after I put our son down for bed I notice a text from stbxww saying she would like to talk if I am willing. I decide to see where it goes and we talk outside for about 25 minutes. Throughout the conversation stbxww essentially tells me that she has no interest in making me spend less time with our son. She said that she felt that it was best for her to start out asking for as much as she can, although knowing she wasn't going to actually go for physical care. She also said things similar to how she does think we can co-parent and that she hopes that we are able to potentially become friends again in the future, and she hinted that she does still want/hope for more than that. She did mention how she hopes that if it is her day with our son and I see them at the park I would stop by and play for a bit, and she hopes that I would allow the same; which i honestly didn't and wouldn't have a problem with. Every opportunity i get to see my son i will always take.

In my responses I said it really is unfortunate that she asked for physical care,and even still with her requesting it I told her I really think what is best for our son is he sees his parents both as much as possible going forward and even after whatever the new normal becomes. She agreed and said I am a very good dad. I did explain that I have no intention of moving and informed her of putting an offer on a house but wouldn't be closing until after everything is finalized, which she said gave her a great sense of relief as she believed I was looking to relocate.

She explained that her dad is having a very hard time with accepting what this is, and that her family hopes that I don't put him to the wayside as she feels this has affected him pretty badly. She also said her family is still struggling with this and she does feel like an outcast, as well as said she no longer has any friends.

I did ask her about having POS in our house, and she told me that she felt threatened to let him she his son. She said our son was asleep and that it wasn't going to last long, but she said she feels like she is being forced to have him in her life and she doesn't want that at all. She mentioned that she hoped that I wouldn't file to disestablish paternity of POC Child as that opens up the door for POS to file to establish paternity. I simply said that is nothing I can control, and told her it sounds like she should really be focusing her efforts on POS Child and POS rather than me and our son as it sounds like we are both on the same page as far as believing what is best. She agreed.

Ultimately I think we will just have financials to settle during mediation; she agreed. Things have been the least tense the past few days as a result of this conversation than at anytime since d-day.

I will still be vigilante however and make sure I don't get duped. Lawyer knows everything as well and is hopes stbxww is able to be amicable going forward.

Good Lord, at least she is consistent!

She mentioned that she hoped that I wouldn't file to disestablish paternity of POC Child as that opens up the door for POS to file to establish paternity.

Yes, because you should be on the hook financially for the next 18 years because some POSOM knocked up your WW. It’s hard to tell if she doesn’t think before she speaks or just doesn’t give a shit about how you’d be impacted.

It’s been said a million times, but worth repeating, you’re doing the right thing by D’ing.

It sounds like you had a reasonable conversation with little substantive change. If it eases tension then that's good.

I don't blame her at all for not wanting OM to take the baby but she needs to set her boundaries and figure out a safe way for his visitation. But that's on her to do and not your problem.

Keep up the good work.

It’s hard to tell if she doesn’t think before she speaks or just doesn’t give a shit about how you’d be impacted.

I’d really be interested in Director’s objective opinion of this because IF he is able to maintain some kind of amicable and productive communication with her to get through the financial settlement and divorce decree, it matters whether she “just doesn’t think” or if she’s operating from a place of “huge entitlement where fairness to Director simply isn’t an issue”.

If it is the former (she just “doesn’t think”...) and she truly wants an open, constructive line of communication between them so they can wrap this all up as cleanly as possible, he should be able to clearly state that de-establishing paternity is non-negotiable for him to ensure he isn’t responsible for her choices. Her reaction to that will be telling.

If it is just a matter of her “not thinking..”, a reasonable person would have that explained to her and do the mental equivalent of the slap to the forehead when realizing that they haven’t been considering every angle. I don’t mean he needs to be mean, but I do mean that he needs to be clear. Therefore there are no expectations of him voluntarily placing himself in a poor position to help her deal with her own poor choices. He also needs to be able to gently discourage the “you can trust me not to ever expect you to pay child support for new baby” because 1. we all know you never divorce the same person you thought you married and 2. To some extent, it is a matter for the courts (who like to see a father, any father providing for kids) no matter what the mother says.

I can’t help but be a bit jaded and lean toward the “she understands she’s asking him to eat a shit sandwich and just doesn’t give a shit because she doesn’t care about Director and what is fair to him”. How she responds to him explaining that:

1. It is a firm no and he will de-establish paternity

2. He is surprised she would think it’s okay to ask that of him

will be a good indication of how low her integrity levels are in her tank of morals and ethics.

She said that she felt that it was best for her to start out asking for as much as she can

I would keep this dear to my heart.. cause it's the truth at it's core right now.

That includes legal custody, I say that cause my bil had custody taken away from him cause his ex-W fought for it in court.. got the CS she wanted, then dropped them all off at his door step the very next day and didn't go back for them at all..

It took several month for him to get things fixed.. but that time she had already cashed in.

she should really be focusing her efforts on POS Child and POS rather than me and our son as it sounds like we are both on the same page as far as believing what is best.

You are correct. That's her problem to resolve.

She explained that her dad is having a very hard time with accepting what this is, and that her family hopes that I don't put him to the wayside as she feels this has affected him pretty badly. She also said her family is still struggling with this and she does feel like an outcast, as well as said she no longer has any friends.

You can't fix this but over time they will accept her and probably OM as well. She is their daughter.

[This message edited by Marz at 1:39 PM, June 28th (Friday)]

It’s hard to tell if she doesn’t think before she speaks or just doesn’t give a shit about how you’d be impacted.

I’d really be interested in Director’s objective opinion of this because

I took it as she wished i hadn't filed to disestablish right after finding out I wasn't the father so she could tackle one issue at a time; she wasn't aware that when the divorce is finalized, in our state they decide then custody/care going forward, so if I hadn't done anything, in the courts eyes I would have been deemed the other child's father, and had a much bigger fight going forward to disestablish after the fact.

Its always been mu opinion that if it were found I wasnt the father that i would seek to disestablish without any questions asked; I think her denying the possibility that it could be the POS's child really threw her off once it was confirmed it was.

You can't fix this but over time they will accept her and probably OM as well. She is their daughter

I said thins in the beginning, even to her parents. stbxmil said she didn'tt know if she would be able to move forward from this and my response was she is your daughter, and you will have another grandchild regardless.

I do fully understand I won't be able to control a lot of things my stbxww does, and I am honestly ok with that, because i fully understand that she wont be able to control what I do either.

Has she formally withdrawn her request for primary care??? I would verify that with your attorney. I don't think her "shoot for the moon" gambit speaks very well of her intentions. You can see from the conversation where she's telling you that she hoped you wouldn't disestablish paternity that her gears have been turning.

I remember that you've had a very close relationship with your FIL. After the dust has settled, I don't see any reason why you can't still enjoy him as a friend. But it's a bit disconcerting that she brought him into the conversation just now.

The cynic in me says that it redirected your mind to a more familial, nostalgic view. I note too how she managed a little "poor little outcast muffin with no friends" in there to boot. I don't know if she manipulates deliberately or if it just comes naturally to her like air, but from what you posted, it sure looks like her intention was to disarm. Be on your guard. I never saw anything in your post which looked like she had taken an ACTION to change her petition for primary custody.

I do fully understand I won't be able to control a lot of things my stbxww does, and I am honestly ok with that, because i fully understand that she wont be able to control what I do either.

That's another reason why you need to rely on a legal, binding agreement. From the get-go, your STBX has behaved like a spoiled little princess who never got told 'no' in her life. Imagine her reaction when you actually do move on. You sound like a really great guy. I can't imagine you'll be on the market long... and I doubt she's going to be a very pleasant person to deal with when you meet someone new.

I wouldn't read much into her conversation either way. Narcissistic people have three channels: rage, self-pity and charm. The rage channel didn't have any affect on you at all. So she's trying the self-pity and charm channels.

Her thought process on the other guy is that no way does she want to have to take care of the children on her own. You wouldn't sign up for taking both so she needs a new victim. This guy seems stupid enough to sign up.

The asking for more custody is just par for the course. Her definition of "fair" is the maximum she can get from you for her comfort. If you expect her to be grasping and greedy for everything she can pull from you whether that's money or time with your child, you won't be disappointed.

Dear Director,

I just read your thread for the first time today. But I did read it all the way through, and I echo others’ praise for handling this horrible hand as well as you have.

I have three things to add that I do not think have been said before. I hope you will think about them:

1. Your darling son is just a toddler and will not remember these days when he is grown. BUT he will be very observant of you in these circumstances of turmoil and your actions will shape his character even if he does not remember them. Most important is that you never make him feel uncomfortable about loving his baby brother. If he senses you do not want him to love the baby, he won’t, or only will half-heartedly, because having his daddy’s approval in these scary times is more important than anything else. So, script your first introduction. Do not let WW control it or have it be in the house. Have WW take the baby out in a stroller to a local park and you and DS meet them there shortly. Say “look who’s here? Why don’t you introduce me to your baby brother!!” Make the focus be on DS and ignore WW. Chuck the baby under the chin and smile broadly at your boy and say “I just know you will be a wonderful big brother and teach him so many things!” Let DS feel your pride in HIM, and let him love the baby.

When DS inevitably asks if you are his brother’s father, or asks why his brother does not call you “daddy,” you can respond compassionately but truthfully that you are not the daddy but more like an uncle, like you are to his cousins. But that you like him and care for him and will always look out for him as DS’s brother. ALWAYS make it safe for DS to love his brother and never have to choose.

2. I am a lawyer. Tell your WW that there are two options: escalate every demand/ask and negotiate to a middle point (running up huge fees) or ask for what you want as a fair middle ground, knowing that you both are doing this and trying to accept reasonable requests. SO much better for co-parenting going forward.

3. About your FIL. Send him an email or text (or better yet a card if that does not feel fake to you), thanking him for lunch and the frank conversation. You do not have to go further than that. Just keep the door open on your relationship. At some point things will settle down and you can decide what you want for the future. But you do not have to decide anything now other than to be kind to him and compassionate for his pain.

All the best to you!

[This message edited by Odonna at 12:24 PM, June 29th (Saturday)]