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Josiep I agree with your insight. I think of that self love as a bucket. Some WS can fill it themselves and yes they expect others to also want to fill it because of their awesomeness. But Some WS have empty buckets or leaky ones when it comes to self love and need it to fill it externally.

My WH needs adoration, validation from others to feel good. He can’t feel good without some one else filling that bucket. When it is empty or low anyone who fills that bucket, he loves. I stopped filling it because of real life, he turned external to the marriage for a refill. Hello massage parlours, it was still not full, hello online dating site, still not full, hello prostitute love of my life.

Me, I was busy taking care of everyone but me, and that included him. He just didn’t see it.

So I think your aha is on the money.

White water rafting is so fun. Congrats! Where did you go?

Josie, "generally speaking" would make it a generalization, no, which is against the site rules? Instead of saying, "we," "us," etc., use "I" statements. Then, there's no issue.

We need to spend time figuring out why we have so much, too much empathy for our WS.

Speaking of empathic BSes, in general.

Maybe I need a tagline like sisoon's. "I get triggered by generalizations. " (That may not be a word for word quote.)

Are you honestly saying you didn't get what I was saying? I've been here how long and you think I think everyone is the same?

And if you want to be grammar police, I hope you're enforcing your rules fairly.

I already work very hard not to say things the wrong way so my words don't hurt people or give people bad advice. I struggle every day with this because I think fast and am trying to get my thoughts out there while also obeying the rules of the website, try to spell correctly, try to use the correct punctuation on an old laptop with sticky keys and now I have to keep reassuring everyone that I'm not trying to generalize and trigger them? Bullshit on that. Not happening. If you're a Platinum, you can just check that little box that makes sure you don't see my posts.

Also, you had nothing to contribute to the conversation, nothing that helped anyone. But you got your digs in. Hurray for you.

Personally I don’t see similarities in bs’s that would ever mean we are destined to becoming a bs. That is all on our ws’s

Except for the threads like "Codependency in the Marriage: a BS's Common Mistakes" along with several articles on creating boundaries and consequences? Aren't those common to be listed in the Healing Library? That is the type of behavior that Josiep is bringing up. If a BS had no role to own in this, those articles wouldn't be such a big part of healing. Arguing that "we became needy when they cheated" supposes that the chicken and egg debate is solved--the marriage broke and I became codependent. For many people, as Josiep is speaking of here, that is convenient denial. Often times it is more like I was codependent and then the marriage broke. It is not a causal relationship, but why wouldn't we look at our own role in our own lives? Empowerment, right?

I have learned from many psychologists and social workers that not looking at your own role in your own life will have you making the same mistakes over and over again. We are not to blame when we are victimized, but we are certainly responsible for our choices, and that includes everything from who we marry, how we marry, having children with someone, what we tolerate in a relationship, what we do or do not do, what we deny or refuse to see, our reactions to things, all of it. The victim mentality is not a healthy way to handle the outcome of your life and won't produce the results you want. Blaming ourselves and beating ourselves up won't help either, but we must look at ourselves honestly and accept that we are not perfect and need to make changes. This is a key element in IC.

Why would we not look at ourselves and do some work? That is what Josie is saying. Kudos to you, Josiep. I told you that this is a very touchy subject with people, but it is a very empowering part of the journey in IC. Keep on working hard!

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 9:13 AM, June 16th (Sunday)]