SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

She'll also say how she wishes we were all a family again.

Quite a key point here, and it will do you well to not brush it off, or take it lightly.

Keep listening, and see if she comes up with more similar statements.

This is where I fear I may lose @RocketRaccoon...

Excuse the language. I mean it all very gently and lovingly. Please bare with me.

So clearly, you've turned your daughter's world completely upside down. Is it your fault? Yes. Your shitty decisions are what led you where you are today. Lies, deception, betrayal, lack of boundaries, and the list continues. So...where does it stop?

Do you love yourself? Do you see your own worth? Can a mother who doesn't love herself effectively navigate the kind of painstakingly unconditional love that their child deserves? If you can't enforce your own boundaries, then how can you help set boundaries for her?

You know what shitty looks like. You've defined that part. I think, no, I fully believe...you also know what better looks like. Dig deep. You, at the very core of your being, would never (under any other circumstances) allow yourself to act the way you are acting now. I don't mean the affair. That's done. It can't be undone. I mean the weak, pitiful, woe is me LD that we have all seen since you had to admit your failure to the world.

You made shitty choices, I get it. I've been there. Now is the time for you to start making the right ones. The ones that solidify you're a stronger woman than one who will allow her past to define her.

Tell me...

30 years from now your daughter comes to you and tells you that she did exactly what you have done to her own BH. What advice do you give her? Would you choose for her what you are currently choosing for yourself?

Would you tell her: "Look mini LD, you done fucked up...now you must pay your penance." You must choose to present yourself as a broken doormat, at the expense of your own child. This is the only way you can redeem yourself.

You displayed shitty boundaries. Your BH saw that. Now, his request is that you display them again in the name of his healing. (Everyone please bare with me before you get out the pitchforks).

The pain you inflicted on him is immeasurable. He doesn't know how to process it. He's trying. He's doing his best. He can't figure out if/how to move forward, so he's decided not having to look at you is what he needs right now. You've accepted his words about his current needs. Limbo. Separated limbo. It's a bitch. The problem with limbo in your situation, is that you're both so focused on the pain LD caused, that you've both failed to realize there is a beautiful 5 year old who is in limbo right with each of you. Limbo is damn near psychologically impossible for adults to deal with. How should she be expected to manage?

My opinion, as unpopular as it will probably be, is that if he didn't still love you...he would have already divorced your ass. Is love enough? Maybe. Maybe not. At this point, does it even matter?

When two people make the choice to bring another human into this world, they take on the responsibility of giving that little human everything they have to offer. Take the vow "in sickness and in health," and add "because how you model your life will forever shape theirs."

Work together. Teach her that adults are flawed. Teach her the meaning of forgiveness. Teach her the importance of honesty. Teach her that every action has a reaction. Teach her redemption. Teach her you don't have to be a prisoner of your past. Teach her how to do better. Teach her how to be better than both of you. Teach her self love. Teach her confidence.

Talk to her father. Tell him your needs. You know...the ones you're so desperately afraid he will reject because of your betrayal. Teach her that no matter how much you want something, if you're afraid to try, the answer will ALWAYS be no. Teach her to never fear advocating for herself, and if the answer ends up being no...how to walk away with her dignity still intact.

Once you decide to stop being frozen in fear (ironically because not too long ago your bs was frozen in fear too), then you can feel confident in how to actually move forward.

I get the feeling, as unpopular as it may be, that both you and your BH are allowing outside influences to trump your actual needs to heal.

If you need to heal together, then you need to band together and show her how it's done. If you can't heal together, then you still need to band TOGETHER (as far as she is concerned), and show her how it's done.

If you two can't give her (while together) the solid foundation she needs, then you two still need to (as a united front) give her the solid foundation she needs.

Essentially, figure out how to be lovers again, or figure out how to love each other in the sense that you share a single most important common goal. Her. You can't do that from a separated limbo. You both may think it's your own relationship that's in limbo, but really it's her that ends up there.

[This message edited by Alpargata at 3:12 AM, November 27th (Wednesday)]

Teach her that adults are flawed.

Im sure she is at least aware of that, if not the memories from trips to Ap's house to be left alone with his daughters will get her a fiery brand reminder of it.

Teach her the meaning of forgiveness

I think given all circumstances at the very least her dad is teaching her this everyday.

If we are being real here LD should not even have a job at a school (school boards tend to take pretty seriously sex on school grounds), he got her out of her contract without anyone, not even him, finding out the truth. She landed a new job thanks to him keeping his mouth shut about something that would make the local news in most places, def in Oklahoma, get her fired and branded unemployable.

Teach her the importance of honesty. Teach her that every action has a reaction.

This whole text you wrote basically says honesty and reaction to action dont matter, that BH has to suck it up and make LD feel like a strong woman again all in the name of the kids.

Teach her redemption. Teach her you don't have to be a prisoner of your past.

Her past didnt fully come into the light until 3 weeks ago, I think its ok to not be redeemed in 3 weeks and its ok to dwell on the recent past specially if you clearly havent learn a thing.

Also as a big grain of salt, we only get to read LD's side of how the daughter is handling this and she is clearly not the most trustful narrator.

PS

Essentially, figure out how to be lovers again, or figure out how to love each other in the sense that you share a single most important common goal

You are asking a man who had his real dday a month ago to get his shit together and get over it. Did you push your BH like this a year ago?

This is where I fear I may lose @RocketRaccoon...

Yeah, Lostgirl410, you are almost right there.....

LD, as another poster has mentioned, kids sometimes don't know how to express what they are feeling.

In essence, what Lostgirl410 is saying about your daughter's world being ripped apart, I agree with. It is tumultuous time for her, and her young mind is trying to comprehend it.

She could be frustrated and confused, causing her to act out.

As Lostgirl410 posted:

Limbo is damn near psychologically impossible for adults to deal with. How should she be expected to manage?

It is worth considering, in the whole scheme of things.

Kids seem to have a sixth sense, and pick up subtle things, like emotional energy, physical cues. In limbo, your daughter might not be able to make sense of the input she is getting, and that gets her frustrated.

I will have to admit that I am saddened at your BH and your situation, but it is what it is, and consequences are being faced now.

[This message edited by RocketRaccoon at 3:44 AM, November 27th (Wednesday)]

Alpargata

There are two things very wrong in your comment.

1. My daughter was never left alone. We went there to watch his girls while he was gone. They played together in the living room with me. While it is extremely fucked up that I even her took her there, you seem to be insinuating that I left her to then go fuck around with him.

2. Do you live with my daughter? Do you see how she behaves each day? Do you see how she behaves when she is with me? Do you honesty think that I would twist what my daughter actually does to lie and get some sympathy on here? Go ahead and ask N how our daughter is sometimes. He will tell you that I have always let her walk all over me. He will tell you how frustrated he got with how I handled her or lack there of. He will tell you that he has absolutely heard the disrespect come out of her mouth to me.

I put our daughter here. I am trying to get advice on how to help us. I have been afraid to post about it because of some poster like you who would either say I'm lying about it or that I deserve it.

This is the thing with children - They test boundaries. But firm boundaries are just as important as big warm hugs to making them feel loved.

Its like that often played out scene where a young boy loses a loved one or beloved pet. An adult goes and hugs him, only to be met with flailing and wailing. After a few moments, the child breaks down and leans into the hugging adult.

Setting and keeping boundaries with children (especially 5 year old's whose mommy no longer lives at home) is going to be just like that. Your choices have caused the destruction of her world. But you are still her mother and she needs to know you still love her. She will test those boundaries with you ferociously, because all she knows is mommy left me and daddy. She needs to see that you still love her. That is why keeping those boundaries are actually more important than being the parent that always over does it with gifts and such. The truth is, she may not like you for it until she is an adult. But she will feel loved and respect you more when she is an adult.

When she says to you that she wishes that you three are a family again. Be honest with her and tell her some variation of "So do I and I am sorry, but mommy hurt daddy's heart too badly to live at home." Then flip it around and say, "Daddy's heart needs to heal and we both want daddy to be happy, right?" Then that is it, nothing more about that subject. Go about doing what you would have done as if she never mentioned it.

It was posted in one of your threads, that you and OM fooled around in the garage while your daughter was in the other room. You admitted it.

Now that's not true?

And while I agree with most of lostgirl's post, that she is basically alluding to the "he needs to get over it " bullshit is mind blowing. The man gave her SEVERAL chances to save the marriage. She lied. Even with a hundred BS telling her, over and over, that the lies will kill the marriage. She didn't listen.

It sounds like, according to LD, that He doesn't allow the child to disrespect her mother. He is not trying to hurt her, or their child. He is drowning in pain.

Of course, as a WS, you don't fully grasp what a BS goes through. But to expect him to forgive,right now, or ever,really, shows a shocking lack of empathy and compassion.

[This message edited by HellFire at 8:22 AM, November 27th (Wednesday)]

Hellfire

I never said she was in the other room. I said his kids were, which still isn't any better. When my daughter was there, he was gone for the day.

You might want to remember that you lied to everyone here,for months. Throughout your very long thread. Lie,after lie. Insisting you were being honest,and berating anyone who didn't believe you. Insulting people who didn't believe you.

Then,of course, the truth came out.

So..maybe you should remember that before you berate someone because they get the facts of your situation incorrect. A little confusion is to be expected.

[This message edited by HellFire at 8:33 AM, November 27th (Wednesday)]

I do agree with our daughter also being in limbo throughout this. She has no idea if her family will ever be the same again. She has no idea if her mommy will ever move back in.

Do you love yourself? Do you see your own worth? I do, but then I feel bad for doing so.

You lost me on the part where you said he is now asking me to show those shitty boundaries. Maybe I just need more coffee and to read it some more times to understand what you were trying to say.

He didn't make a rushed decision on divorce or reconciling because he has been thinking about how each life will be impacted.

Kiba, that's pretty much what I say to her. I tell her "I am sad that things are different. I wish we were all home together, but I really hurt daddy's heart. I am trying to make things better, but Daddy needs time right now to feel better. I don't want to make him sad again."

My issue with that poster was him saying that what I am saying about our daughter may not be entirely true.

Kids seem to have a sixth sense, and pick up subtle things, like emotional energy, physical cues. In limbo, your daughter might not be able to make sense of the input she is getting, and that gets her frustrated.

RocketRaccoon was able to pull my message from all that text quite beautifully. Defining the catalyst is the first step in effectively addressing the issue.

Alpargata's response contains a very important lesson as well. A person's perception is their version of truth.

What do you think is your daughter's current perception? How can you, as parents, work together to help her with that?

Alpargata's perception was that I think your BH should "get over it." I don't. He may never get over it, and that's his right. They are his feelings. Feelings are not right or wrong. Actions are. I'm also not saying the only right action is to be together. Neither of you know what it is yet.

I am saying you need to work together to pull her out of limbo. You two can sit there for as long as you need, but make sure she isn't forced to sit there with you. Successful co-parenting will require sacrifice from both of you regardless of who was in the wrong within your marriage.

I believe you need to be more careful how you phrase it out to your daughter.

I tell her "I am sad that things are different. I wish we were all home together, but I really hurt daddy's heart. I am trying to make things better, but Daddy needs time right now to feel better. I don't want to make him sad again."

Your BH could feel better snuggling up with his little girl and not be healed. When she asks him if he feels better and he says yes, she may say "mommy can come home now." Putting him in a tight spot. Do not get me wrong, it is really good that you are acknowledging that you were the cause of her world being broken up. But she may think it is now on daddy to feel better so her world can be complete again. That was why I was careful with how I worded my suggestion.

The first part acknowledged her pain and that you caused it. the second part flips it for something positive you both can focus on - helping her daddy become happy again. It doesn't let there be a suggestion that you can and will come home if her daddy is healed/happy/feels better. Especially since that is out of your hands. But it also doesn't put your husband of having to disappoint your daughter if he decides that your actions were too much for him.

what I am saying about our daughter may not be entirely true

You can't cry wolf a hundred times and then be mad about not getting simpathy the hundred and first.

But I will play ball and give you some advice.

You need to switch working fields asap, if you want R then teaching is no longer an option, unless you switch states. You are gonna have to lie for the rest of your working career, and lying is never inducing to anything positive.

You havent told the full truth to that mom or to the other teacher because you know they would have to report it. (And lets be real no married moms are ever gonna want you near their husbands/kids)

As well as classrooms being a huge trigger for your BS from now on.

Kids are very perceptive, your daughter seems to be as fully aware as a 5 year old can be about this whole shitstorm. So maybe changing careers and starting fresh will releave some of the pressure you feel atm to try and please everyone and it will reflect on your relationship with her.

Def no way you get your family back if you have to keep on lying and being careful about what you say at work all the time because it could get you fired.

Im sorry Im posting this here instead of on your separation thread but lostgirl triggered me so hard I had to come out of the lurker woodwork.

I agree, wording is tricky. I told my children (7 and 4) that adults make promises when they get married and that daddy broke a very serious one and it means we might not be able to be married anymore.

Then i told them daddy lied about it, and lying makes everything worse. This is a concept my kids know because i have taught them from toddlerhood that doing something wrong, and then lying about it, makes the consequences worse. But if they tell me the truth when i ask for it, they get less punishment, and i thank them for their honesty. I did this so when they are teenagers, they know they can tell me things without fearing consequences. So when i told them daddy was lying, they knew that was serious, in a way they understood.

I also told them daddy did eventually tell me the truth, and that his job now was to prove to me he was being honest now. Because this is a concept i have always emphasized with them, they get it. They see daddy being sorry and telling me things (talking more, being open, not details), and they know he needs to earn my trust again (also a concept they understand, because i use it with them).

This approach lets them understand it isnt about my sadness or happiness, because they know earning trust takes time and work. They know that the onus is on daddy to do the work, like it is on them if they lie or break my trust. He reinforced this with them and reassured them he was doing everything he could to earn my trust.

This may not work for you, because i built on ideas MY kids already had. But if it does, feel free to use it.

You lost me on the part where you said he is now asking me to show those shitty boundaries. Maybe I just need more coffee and to read it some more times to understand what you were trying to say.

I'm glad I lost you. It made no sense. Try this:

You displayed shitty boundaries. Your BH saw that. Now, his request is that you display the ability to acknowledge that, and find them (meaning the healthy ones) again in the name of his healing.

I should have caught that before I posted.

He wants her to develop healthy boundaries for Her well being,and for their child. It is not solely based on his need. I'm puzzled as to why anyone who reads his threads, and hers, would reach that conclusion. Throughtout this shitshow, he has been kinder, and more respectful than most betrayed husbands.

He knows she will always be a mess,if she can't develop stronger boundaries. He wants a healthy mother for his child. At this point, it's unlikely he will want to reconcile. So, really, her need for boundaries isn't even about him.

[This message edited by HellFire at 10:30 AM, November 27th (Wednesday)]

Hellfire,

With all due respect, but bugger off. It sounds like you just want to pile on....

What exactly have you contributed to this thread?

Mr. Clean Slate,

It is out of line and disrespectful for your to address another poster (a woman poster, in the case, who is a BS) in such a way. Hellfire was one of Life Destroyer’s biggest champions on her initial thread. Even now, in the aftermath of Life Destroyer’s polygraph test, she still tries to post helpful advice because both Life Destroyer and her husband are committed to trying to minimize the damage this whole situation is causing their daughter.

Life Destroyer is a mother as much as she is a WS. And Hellfire is trying to get through to her - mother to mother. Maybe you don’t like her toughlove approach, but it comes from a place of caring. Years out, my own WS still appreciates the advice she received in the past from Hellfire.

You can support Life Destroyer without telling Hellfire to “bugger off.” No one has a right to disrespect the women here, be they WS or BS.