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Ask her to write a detailed timeline and that you will follow through with a polygraph based on it and other questions, tell her this is the only chance to come completely clean and that the M hangs in the balance, even if she confesses to more, still go through with it, and of course demand she gets tested for STDs. Do not believe OM is "separated" she could be trying to protect him.

The first time we were intimate, she cried and, I've wondered since then if this was guilt but, I'll never know.

This often occurs when the WS is trying to remain faithful to the AP, it's possible she didn't want to have sex with you in an effort to (get ready for this) not cheat on the AP with you, she might have felt "guilty" for betaying the AP/OM with you. Also do not forget to consult an attorney to know your options.

"I don't remember" is a typical cheater strategy used to minimize and rug sweep her behavior.

Writing it all down tends to mentally reduce her romantic tryst into the dirty act it was.

The more detail she puts into writing a timeline the more sordid and disgusting her romantic fantasy becomes in her mind. Therefore, the first draft she'll start with very general stuff - and you'll read it and have her add more detail.

To encourage full disclosure she should understand that one of the polygraph questions may be something like: Does the timeline (to the best of her knowledge) contain all contact, topics of conversations, physical contact, including when she reached out or suggested face to face meetings.

For example, it was just a kiss? How often, when, where, did anyone see them, how long, did she tongue him, what other body contact?

There should be a lot of detail relating to every face to face contact (training session, coffee/lunches, and the afternoon they spent together).

Therefore, the timeline should be detailed enough to show 'who' instigated each face to face contact, what they talked about, what 'she' discussed sexually face to face or in texts, what 'she' said about you or your marriage, did she say she loved him or wanted to marry him.

For example:

- describe their very first contact (training or other)

- describe the very last contact she's had

- how much time spent with each other at the conference, anytime alone, did they sit next to each other at any time, when and why did she give him her email and/or phone number)

- who's idea was it to use Whatsup and to delete messages

- with respect to them spending an entire afternoon together, there should be 'pages' describing their conversation, her motivation, who's idea it was, did they kiss, hold hands, walk arm and arm, etc.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 6:03 PM, November 27th (Wednesday)]

BTW kissing is one of the most passionate and intense things two people can do together. It's like the fuse on a grenade.

Once it reached that stage it's hard to stop, but really "kissing" is just admitting to what the cheater thinks will be accepted as a lesser crime.

Polygraph timeline STD & DNA testing.

Gather all the intel you can on the OM.

Even if OM is separated he is still married inform his wife she may have a few stories to tell you!

So she's an outlier eh? Read Neanderthal thread. Another outlier until the poly parking lot. Sex went from once to 15 times. Poly her ass. She's lying. Simple.

Sounds a lot like my wife and many others we have seen here. Mine swore on my child, grand statements about how truthful she was being, blah, blah, blah, she was lying the entire time, 3 damn years.

Do not do what I did and have to pull everything out, it is a maddening experience. If I could go back, I would have had my WW do a poly right away. It would have saved years of unnecessary heartache.

The comment about the poly sounds just like my WW. "I'll take one if that's what you want". She's trying to pander to your emotional side with this.

Also, the AP is supposedly single. Do you think a single guy would be interested in putting in this much effort for no sex? Just doesnt ring true and sounds like you are feel the same way.

My WW deserved an oscar for her performance and mental gymnastics she performed, it's crazy, and must have been mentally exhausting.

I would bet a large sum of money that the AP is not separated at all. Get in touch with his wife ASAP. I'm sure it will be a surprise to her as well.

Sorry you’re here brother.

Like others have stated, this was physical, I suggest, every meet-up for coffee/lunch was actually sex, sorry. Too many meets for just an EA, it sounds like you’re wrapping your head around that.

This struck me:

The first time we were intimate, she cried and, I've wondered since then if this was guilt but, I'll never know.

more than likely guilt for cheating on her BF, sorry.

I've just found the AP's wife on Facebook. I also have her address (blimey, it's frightening how much data is available on people). It looks like they're separated but, he still has frequent contact with the children. Is there any point in making contact with her and, if so, how should I do it? Thanks

Separated can mean many things, for all you know the affair might have ended because he wanted to try and fix his marriage.

If she is thinking about getting back with him she deserves the truth, plus a second pair of eyes will help you keep your wife and the AP in check.

best of luck Phoenix!

Thanks.

I've sent the AP's wife the following. Anything I should add?

Hi [name], please forgive the intrusion. I reach out to you with good intentions and, as a fellow parent. I'm letting you know the following should it be important to you: recently I discovered that [AP] had been meeting my wife at hotels during work hours for 'coffee'. They also booked an afternoon off work together and, went to [nice place] for about 4 hours, but I'm not sure what they did (though passionate kissing has been admitted). I also know they messaged each other on WhatsApp hundreds of times (for a couple of months they'd message from the early morning to late evening). Discovering this has destroyed me and, I'm getting through the days because of the joy my three children bring me (6,4 and 2). I doubt I will be able to trust again. Anyway, I hope this isn't terrible news for you. I have spoken with multiple others who have (unfortunately) experienced similar and all advised you have a right to know should you still be involved. I wish you and your family well. I should add, this was between Jan and May this year and, contact supposedly stopped in June.

[This message edited by BSPheonix at 5:33 AM, November 28th (Thursday)]

I've checked location data in both her phones (personal and work) and reconciled this with bank statements (which I looked at last night). It seems the hotel meets I know of didn't exceed 45 mins and, she bought coffee and a sandwich while there. Doesn't prove nothing happened of course but, it's good to plug more data into my own timeline. I was surprised to see in the bank statements that, between Jun and Sep she ate fast food burgers a few times a week (sometimes on days she claimed to be 'on a fast day'). Shame, she worked out like crazy Jan - April (during their 'peek contact' period). I'm beginning to wonder if there's a possibility he finished with her (as was suggested above), which could help explain what I perceive to be a lack of atonement on her part.

[This message edited by BSPheonix at 5:05 AM, November 28th (Thursday)]

I'm beginning to wonder if there's a possibility he finished with her

Mind movies aren't great and right now is the time for action, follow the great advice you have been given, that being said.

You wrote that 10 years ago she had a crush on him, it could be that back then she got flat out rejected and this time around he needed an ego boost.

It looks like she was ready to jump ship in Jan-April, then something stopped it, and then she had the talk with you about saving the marriage. (crying during intimacy could also be his rejection boiling over the top)

The burgers could be anxious eating about you finding out or being rejected by this guy a second time, who really knows. You know what it is most likely since you know her better.

Her lack of remorse could be that since it """theoretically""" stopped before it becoming a full PA she feels she didn't do anything really wrong, in fact she might feel she deserves a medal for it. I remember a wayward writing on this forum how she felt she deserved a reward for having chosen her husband over her AP.

Everything is subjective until you get a proper timeline that can be fact-checked with a poly.

[This message edited by Alpargata at 5:23 AM, November 28th (Thursday)]

Make contact with the MM spouse. She has the right to know that her husband has been in a physical relationship with your wife. Kissing is physical and can pass in certain STIs.

Sorry. Start 180 she is lying to you.

Buffer

Just want to say a massive thanks to all. I've read all you've said several times and, I'm taking it all on board. VAR devices are in place now (Amazon Prime was worth it), WW has agreed to do a timeline tonight, with a view to a poly.

[This message edited by BSPheonix at 5:44 AM, November 28th (Thursday)]

Let us know what OBS says. Good job.

If your wife has access to the Amazon account, she can see your browsing history, and any purchases made. I know you can delete the browsing history, but I've never figured out if there's a way to delete purchases.

Hi Hellfire, that's a good shout. I don't remain logged-in anywhere and, she doesn't have access to my phone (I'm sure of this) but, I'll see if I can delete.

Apparently 'archive order' will hide the order from view. I can see this in the web but, not mobile app.

[This message edited by BSPheonix at 7:45 AM, November 28th (Thursday)]

I say don't offer R just yet.

"We only kissed" is literally the most told lie all cheaters say. It's most likely the tip of the ice berg.

Take some time to really see if she's a safe partner. Sure, she's acting like the perfect R candidate now. But really see if there's consistency over the next 6 months. Then you can call it R. Right now you should just be observing. Remember, she destroyed the marriage. It's entirely up to her to repair it.

Do you really want to be playing "Infidelity Police" for the rest of your marriage? She should be proactively reporting to you. Not you always checking in on her.

Good luck.

Not sure how I should start with post-nup. I'm about to start reading. Any suggestions about what's reasonable to put in? E.g. do people tend to stipulate a greater share of a particular asset (e.g. 70% of home) if WS has another affair?

Edit: thanks Squid, I didn't see your post as I was typing my own when you submitted.

[This message edited by BSPheonix at 8:09 AM, November 28th (Thursday)]

With respect to a post nup. Google it for some ideas.

If the post nup is viewed as 'punitive', the court may not enforce it. The intent is to protect you from an unfair settlement in event of divorce vs punishing her for her life style.

Draft up some things you like to see in the pre nup and then seek advice from an attorney.

I've read where a court looks for certain things when deciding whether to enforce a pre nup clause.

- equal negotiating power (your wife needs to have her own attorney review it)

- if it's overall too lop sided in your favor or certain clauses appear to be punitive for her life style or basically something no reasonable parent/spouse would agree to, the court may not enforce all or part of it.

- with respect to child support and custody and living arrangements, the courts tend to make their own determination as to what's in the best interest of the children.