SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I've not gone to bed one night wishing he were here or woke up one morning wishing he were here - even when I've been really wobbly.

That is the most important realization you've had yet IMHO. And that kind of calm and peace is what you are gaining by getting clear of him!

I didn't rub his back enough - that's the real crime here.

Pffft! How dare you Skeeter you big mean meany-head! Mine was playing the violins because I was 'unfair' for kicking his ass out after he slept with a teenager in my bed and texted me that he wanted a D I'm a meany-head too!

(((skeetermooch)))

You're not nuts, you're not crazy, you're very human. And you're not alone, as all these replies can attest.

I actually had a similar run-in with the WW the past few days. She showed up unexpectedly (at least, she hinted at coming over but I didn't believe her) to pick up a few things, and she tried to cuddle with me that actually left me sobbing. She left angry for a different reason (she missed her train and I refused to drive her 1.5 hours to/from the place she's cat/house sitting at the moment). The next day she invited me, like for the 4th time in over a week to come and "play with the cats". Feeling very lonely I gave in and came over...I very much yearned to be held and comforted by her, because of the day before. She was cool to me (despite inviting me...and me bringing ingredients to make dinner...) and long story short, ended up rejecting me after we dozed off for a while. She told me to go to the couch...and rather than sleeping over and inevitably driving her to work the next day (it is on the way back home )...I left...at 2:30 am. At first she said don't go, and I told her I felt humiliated and unwelcomed, that she was more loyal to her AP and she's able to let him do all sorts of things to her while we were together but I can't even be held and comforted. I told her to have a nice life as I left. For the first time...I felt like she was a total stranger.

Her texts turned from "let me know when you arrive home safe" to anger "you're not entitled to my body!". I wasn't planning on answering, but the last one angered me because she's coerced me into sex many times when she was feeling depressed ("I need to feel good"). Once early in her PA I didn't want to touch her and she pressured me...I actually cried during sex that time. So I mentioned this, and reiterated the points I typed in the previous paragraph. Her final text was around 4 am saying she hated me because all I do is deflect and blame her, and that's why we could never "resolve our issues". I sent the one text and haven't talked to her since.

That was longer than I expected, not trying to thread jack...but seriously, you're not alone. Your WH reminds me so much of my WW, by the way. I wonder if they're related?

He was pleased that I finally accepted responsibility for his cheating and agreed going forward I would be more affectionate and sexually aggressive, give him autonomy to "schmooze" with whoever he needed to schmooze with for work (aka take young females out), not question his comings and goings.

I feel so much anger towards him for this. Like I said, I see my WW...Not so much the physically cheating I suppose, but when I felt like it was just an EA, she did not like me complaining about some of her social events with the AP's circle of friends. There were incidents that just screamed sketchy boundaries that we had a lot of fights over. She would have rather I didn't say anything and let her do whatever she wanted (AND have the privilege of picking her up/chauffering her from these events).

I have so much anger right now for what he's done to me. I really want to just blindside him with divorce papers like blindsided me.

You really should do this IMO!

I didn't rub his back enough - that's the real crime here.

My WW LOVES backrubs (in fact I gave her one the night I went over, I so desperately wanted to get held so I gave a little to get a little). She asked for them a lot, and even got them without having to ask. I got nothing, even when asking. Always too tired.

It's like he sees his cheating as a necessary wake-up call to get me to change my horrible ways. It's so delusional - maybe that's why I freaked out today and felt so terribly - I finally saw that there isn't anybody human home in him. There is never going to be hope because he's so disordered. That was kind of heart breaking.

This is why I asked if they were related lol. I've gotten this vibe from WW in the past...I get my way too much, I'm too negative, I don't take her out enough and we don't have a life/have fun anymore. In MC, you could interpret some of what she said as "I'm going to keep cheating until he comes around and does those things for me again". Meanwhile most of those criticisms exist because of the EA/PA with her AP.

Now this may not apply to you that much since this was a blindside on his part. It's even more arrogant on his part IMO, because he should have communicated what was making him unhappy. I had a sinking ship go down before my eyes and I chose to sink with it rather than get out. So definitely don't knock yourself for anything!

Even though I'm all over the place and a hot mess, I'm still clear on one thing - I love him not living in my house anymore. I've not gone to bed one night wishing he were here or woke up one morning wishing he were here - even when I've been really wobbly.

That says it all, you're actually really strong!

[This message edited by ShatteredSakura at 9:21 PM, December 11th (Wednesday)]

Sakura,

You're wife and my STBX are cut from the same piece of dog turd.

I'm so sorry she did that to you last night. She's a user - she's lonely so even though she knows this will be interpreted as a possible R moment - certainly spending the night has implications, as does getting a back rub and cuddling - she has no issue letting you come over and fill her little lonely moments only to discard you when she's had her fill. She was probably mostly pissed bc she wanted the ride in the morning. That was her stomping her foot because you wouldn't be her errand boy and personal valet.

Meanwhile most of those criticisms exist because of the EA/PA with her AP.

Yep, same here. Every complaint he has was a direct result of his cheating - when you tell constant lies, disappear for hours, withhold sex because you gave it all to your hos, spouses start acting funny - they get anxious and depressed, they ask where you were and who you were with. They get pissed when they see inappropriate text messages. That all makes them hella less affectionate and fun to be around - go figure.

Like you, I speak up when I see the ship taking on water but let's not assume they are being honest. I highly doubt my STBX was truly withholding deep resentments.

At the time he claimed to be deliriously happy. Often he would tell me unbidden that he would die if he ever lost me. If you looked at his fb page you'd think this was the happiest, most in-love human to ever have walked the earth. Every post was about me - how amazing I am. So, all of the bs about not being happy - yeah, maybe he pulled it out of his ass.

And like your wife - he's clearly not done cheating. They want us back, heads in the sand ready to be at their beck and call while they live like single folks. The more we refuse, the angrier they get.

You know why - because they don't want to be alone. They can't stand it and their APs, or in my STBX's case, his hookers and work skanks, aren't giving full-time attention, so, they want to hoover us back as needed. That's their perfect set up and we just aren't cooperating.

She's a user - she's lonely so even though she knows this will be interpreted as a possible R moment - certainly spending the night has implications, as does getting a back rub and cuddling - she has no issue letting you come over and fill her little lonely moments only to discard you when she's had her fill. She was probably mostly pissed bc she wanted the ride in the morning. That was her stomping her foot because you wouldn't be her errand boy and personal valet.

I went knowing full well it wasn't . I asked her point blank before, would she have invited me if he was available? She said probably not.

And to the 2nd point, most likely...it was raining all day Monday, and she got super soaked in the morning (the bus didn't stop for her and she didn't have an umbrella). "Commute from hell" I believe was the phrase. It was supposed to rain Tuesday morning too, but I'm unsure if it did.

We were supposed to play a board game, and she went upstairs to the bathroom but never came back...after some time I went up and she was laying in bed. Before that she was aloof, now she was very cold. I suspect the douchebag started messaging her, and I also bet she started feeling guilty.

You're wife and my STBX are cut from the same piece of dog turd.

Yep, looks like they're more alike than I even originally thought. Strength to you!

I'm ashamed to be a part of this website - I'm not as strong as the rest of you, nor as mentally healthy. I don't know why I'm doing the things I'm doing and I don't know how to escape this limbo.

Skeeter - you should see me. This Summer I didn't want to live anymore if I had to keep living with him. That's how far he had drove me. I was at my mental breaking point.

We all have strengths and weaknesses. Some of us can handle certain things better than others. Some of us can shelf it - like I had to do to survive this semester. But as soon as my semester ended, I've been a depressed bawling mess. I don't know that making it through this semester made me strong. It did give me something to focus on other than the shit storm he brought upon my life.

You are not crazy. I've done my fair share of off the cuff shit the past few months. I've raged, I've cried, I've told off complete strangers. But I'm letting myself grieve - as you should too. Because this trauma - is like grieving a death. Let yourself grieve.

I don't know that you need to check yourself in somewhere. That's really up to you. But just don't let him find out and have it be something he is able to use against you in D. Have you spoken to your doctor about antidepressants? Or anxiety meds? Something to calm the nerves.

Do what you feel is best, I get it - I've been there too - A LOT the past few months - and you are not alone. You are not crazy. And you have every right to feel what you do - and you need to feel it to get through this. Hang in there.

-Cats

It's like he sees his cheating as a necessary wake-up call to get me to change my horrible ways. It's so delusional - maybe that's why I freaked out today and felt so terribly - I finally saw that there isn't anybody human home in him. There is never going to be hope because he's so disordered. That was kind of heart breaking.

OMG, yes, that. I remember listening to some of the delusional garbage that came out of my XWH's mouth and really allowing myself to hear it and accept that this is really what and how he thinks and it was completely devastating. It was like watching him die right in front of me. It kinda is too. Who you thought he was died and every word he said was another shovel full of dirt tossed on that phantom man's casket. It makes no sense unless you've had that moment of realization. No freakin' wonder you had such a day. It is a profoundly disturbing experience.

It isn't just the psychological mindfuck of him metaphorically dying either. It was like he killed me too. He killed the woman who loved him, because how could she exist if he never had? This is why this shit is brain damage, IMO. I have felt like I was utterly insane more times than I can count in those times.

So yeah, cut yourself a break. All this is completely normal for you to be feeling. This is a brain injury.

I agree with Dee, this is a brain injury. I remember my brain seeming to “skip a gear” or something when I found out...

Thinking of this as a brain injury is really helpful (and it sucks). But that's such an apt description. My reality, my intuition, my judgement, my sense of who I am was all fucked with so hard.

It was like watching him die right in front of me. It kinda is too. Who you thought he was died and every word he said was another shovel full of dirt tossed on that phantom man's casket.

Yes. it's like looking or talking to someone on their deathbed - Perfect metaphor. I just knew I was never going to see or hear the person I knew and loved ever again. And I didn't expect that. Honestly, I was probably hoping, in the absence of my anger, the man I loved would show up. Instead the cyborg he truly is fully inhabited his body.

Cats, Thanks for bringing meds up. I am on anti-depressants that have an anti-anxiety benefit and Xanax as needed. I've been holding back on using Xanax very often because the doctor only gave me 15 pills total 4 months ago with no refills. I have 4 left. It's probably okay to ask for more - now that you got me thinking about it. I only get into real crisis mode once or twice a weekish (ha-only) so I don't think it's dangerous to take them at these times.

He's going to know about me doing in-patient because it's his insurance but I'm looking at codependency/trauma places - not actual psych wards. Also, I'm in a no fault state and no kids together - thankfully. Other than him getting off on fucking me up, I don't think there's much he can do with that info. He's going to tell everyone we know I'm crazy anyway because that's what they do.

He's going to tell everyone we know I'm crazy anyway because that's what they do.

Yep - that's what mine did. They all believed him too - until he fucking died.

Then they all looked like a bunch of assholes.

Nothing is wrong with you. What you are feeling is normal. And Dee is right - cut yourself a break.

I have a hard time with explaining it now that WH is deceased, but he had already died in a way. I had lost him long before this. Another thread we had this discussion about how addiction changes the person.

My point is - it happens within infidelity as well. That person you knew, metaphorically has died. They are not the person you married or fell in love with - and this is like grieving a death on top of the trauma that comes with the infidelity.

(((skeetermooch))) you are not crazy my dear lady! I actually opened our M up after D-Day 2 thinking this would help us talk about what the ef?

These Narcopaths are all the same. They get to do all the damage and want us to lap it all up all while they are the victims

Mine is a victim too. It's all about how he feels and nothing else. Really he just wanted me to turn my head or stick it underground while he got to be a gluttonous pig. The fact that I am always showing him the mirror gives him cause to punish me... not anymore.

In-patient therapy is awesome! I can't say it enough.They really helped me snap out of self-harming and suicide ideation.

Keep detaching and 180ing Also No Contact is your friend. The less contact I have the better I am and feel.

Go easy on yourself this journey is not an easy one, but we are here walking with you in this!

My point is - it happens within infidelity as well. That person you knew, metaphorically has died. They are not the person you married or fell in love with - and this is like grieving a death on top of the trauma that comes with the infidelity.

Absolutely. That's why no contact is the best thing afterwards. I could never be comfortable looking at his corpse walking around with a different person inside of it. It gave me anxiety even after I no longer loved him. My brain was never settled with it. It's not like a regular break-up when dealing with an addict and/or a disordered person. They never really existed, so that makes it extra weird and traumatic.

They are not the person you married or fell in love with - and this is like grieving a death on top of the trauma that comes with the infidelity.

I still can't wrap my mind around this abrupt and dramatic personality change. There's been nary of glimpse of the former him in months and months - since dday really. Even in the rare moments when he's not raging - there's an entitlement and arrogance that no one who just got caught violating their marriage vows should ever have, an utter lack of humility. It's like his personality was vacuumed out of his body.

I wonder if he's different at work or if I'm the only one who get's to see the cluster b monster? Probably - since I'm no longer drinking his kool-aide he's got no reason to pretend he's normal.

I actually opened our M up after D-Day 2 thinking this would help us talk about what the ef?

I offered the same but he refused because consensual non-monogamy is "a deal breaker" - he only does it non-consensually.

How's that for fucking nuts?

As much as I have the urge to see him or talk or text - I'm getting better at not doing it. It took several toxic encounters for me to finally accept that every single time I have contact with him, I feel like shit and it takes a few days to regain the lost ground.

I offered the same but he refused because consensual non-monogamy is "a deal breaker" - he only does it non-consensually.

How's that for fucking nuts?

Wow. Just.... WOW.

What a colossal arse he is!

consensual non-monogamy is "a deal breaker" - he only does it non-consensually.

Wow this really takes the cake of cake eaters!

It took several toxic encounters for me to finally accept that every single time I have contact with him, I feel like shit and it takes a few days to regain the lost ground.

Yes same! It definitely makes NC a little easier.

Yes, my idiot said non-monogamy was a deal breaker after cheating for our entire marriage. I was with another cheater, to whom I offered that he could be non-monogamous while I remained faithful. I just wanted the lying to stop. He still said, No thanks.

How easy it is to board the train to crazy town. How quickly the fog descends and insanity becomes the norm.

I'd like to think on a good day, removed from this relationship, if someone said the stupid things he says I would laugh in their face and keep going - instead I entertained this crap, tried to compromise and meet him halfway to crap land, even went along with it.

Me too Skeet. Don't beat yourself up too much!

It takes time and distance to get your bitch boots firmly laced up!

I actually opened our M up after D-Day 2 thinking this would help us talk about what the ef?

I offered the same but he refused because consensual non-monogamy is "a deal breaker" - he only does it non-consensually.

How's that for fucking nuts?

Yeah it's nuts. I got a version of this from my WW as well. I stood my ground and never willingly opened my relationship with her (Ive told her over and over I only wanted her), but it didn't matter of course since she did it anyways.

The interesting thing is she constantly flip flopped on me seeing other people. There were times she was feeling guilt and kept telling me I should date other women. A few times she even said that maybe her feeling jealous would be a good thing and snap her out of the affair (it's like she had moments of self awareness that if she was really truly going to lose me she'd stop)

And there were other times I'd say you opened our relationship up and maybe I should go out and date. I only said this to gauge her reaction. Sometimes she'd just agree (snarkily I might add...only when it came from my mouth not hers) and other times she would say nono I don't want an open relationship, I don't want you with someone else. She even had the audacity one time to say what's the point of being together then.

I just don't understand how you can acknowledge your feelings of your SO being intimate with someone else being a bad thing, and still keep up your own affair. The guilt would simply tear me apart. I know it does for her at some level, or perhaps did...but she was still able to keep going and I guess compartmentalize? I don't think I'd stop thinking about her if I was with someone else.

*sigh* This morning was rough, I dreamt of her and woke up feeling awful. I then thought of this thread. I hope today ends up turning out well for all of us.