SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Right now is not the time to agree to anything. Let her talk, don't interrupt or help her explain. She is just out to cover her ass and protect her boyfriend.

I know that you want to make all stop, and go back to before she had an affair. Can't do that.

It sounds that you "both" want to R but you cannot forgive her without knowing what you are forgiving and what she did. In a matter of 12 hours she's done with the great guy who she texted with thousands of times. Held hands with maybe made out with or had sex with, you don't know what you are forgiving. Many can get over the sex but not the lies and disrespect.

I know you guys want the polygraph and the vars but if I have to do that, shit is irrecoverably broken.

Many people R after a passed polygraph. Actually, many of them couldn't R WITHOUT a passed polygraph. In order for R to work, you need to have a base level of truth. You need to know what you're R'ing with. Even if you drop everything today and choose to believe your WW, IF at any point you discover a big lie or continued contact, it will set your healing back to square 1.

If you don't want to do the polygraph and that VAR, that's fine. Run recovery programs on her phone. Look at her phone bill. Tell the OM's wife. Those things alone can give you some reassurance that you have enough of the truth to R with and the A isn't continuing. Better yet, ask her to get another job too and IC for herself.

She wants to reconcile and I do as well. Obviously I can't just make amends on this in a day.

You can't reconcile if you don't know what you're actually forgiving. It's impossible. You will build reconciliation on a foundation of sand, and when the REAL anger hits you (you're just in the early anger phase) the whole thing will crumble.

I know you guys want the polygraph and the vars but if I have to do that, shit is irrecoverably broken. And maybe that's just the way it is.

It's not that we "want" it, that's all on you. This is your decision. It's that we know how this all works. We've been through it and we've collectively crowdsourced a way of approaching this that works. It's not a panacea, but a prerequisite for getting you clear of infidelity.

Shit is already irrecoverably broken. That is the way it is.

The VAR and written timeline and polygraph are to ensure: 1) You have the real truth, not fake truth or half truth. Otherwise reconciliation doesn't work. 2) To ensure she's not taking the affair underground, which workplace affairs are notorious for.

That's what one of the VARs is for. The other VAR is for you to carry around in your pocket as protection against false DV charges. Please read that again. No, I'm not kidding. Yes, it's very common for betrayed husbands to be hit with staged domestic violence charges from desperate panicked WW's looking to gain an advantage. Don't think your sweet innocent wife won't do this. Protect yourself!

And look, think this through: Why are you willing to plow forward with downloading the contents of her phone, but not VAR'ing her to ensure truth? Why wouldn't you polygraph her to slice through all the nonsense and noise in one fell swoop? That doesn't make any sense. The polygraph is your NUMBER ONE tool for getting the truth. The VAR is your NUMBER ONE tool for getting intel so you aren't flying blind in the typical anxiety-driven panic and shock haze of a betrayed husband. KNOWLEDGE IS POWER.

If it takes a polygraph to get the truth and constant monitoring to see she isn't cheating, what's the fucking point?

Brother, we hear this all the time. I said it myself. All I can tell you is that if you don't move fast and do these things NOW you will severely regret it later. I'm just now making my WW do a polygraph after three years because I was too much of a pussy to do it before, or just in plain shock and not thinking straight. Now I am. You need this for your own self-respect. Or just walk away. But staying in the grey zone of not doing one and trying to reconcile is unlikely to work out for you.

Now with all that said, if it's just broken broken and you don't want or need to know more and don't care whether she continues the affair ... then just divorce her and be done with it. Move swiftly, rip off the Band-aid and divorce her.

Either way, in either case, 180 her hard and serve her with divorce papers even if you think you want to stay together. She needs shock and awe to end her fantasy whether you reconcile or divorce.

And please get yourself tested for STD's!!!

[This message edited by Thumos at 11:49 AM, December 12th (Thursday)]

She has an IC appointment on Saturday. She has had ongoing IC basically since I've known her for generalized anxiety disorder. I know her IC has previously told her no contact was the appropriate solution (we talked about it last night).
If the texts are unrecoverable, it's a no go. Yes I should have done it last night. But I am going to recover them tonight. I know she hasn't wiped, if she wipes today, it's over. It's just over.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 1:54 PM, Wednesday, May 19th]

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 7:14 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

Why did she leave to go to a female friend's house? How did you confirm that?

[This message edited by layla1234 at 11:51 AM, December 12th (Thursday)]

Is her IC a betrayal trauma specialist or a hippy dippy therapist who will help her rugsweep and blameshift onto you?

Is your IC a betrayal trauma specialist? I highly recommend it. In fact, if you find a group of betrayal trauma specialists who work in a practice together, then two IC's can work together with you and your wife (nota bene this is NOT couples/marital counseling).

This is what I'm doing with my wife and we just went through the first phase of a disclosure process. They manage it and they don't allow a wayward spouse to minimize, blameshift or rugsweep.

If I can't do this shit without constantly monitoring her then I just can't do it. If it takes a polygraph to get the truth and constant monitoring to see she isn't cheating, what's the fucking point?

You should do it because she crossed several lines, that's why, and if she's truly not guilty of anything other than what she's admitted, then she will WELCOME the chance to have something other than her own discredited word to back her up.

If she can cross the line, by her own admission, into making passes at another man, even with his supposed rejection, and then trying to protect HIM from this situation, then do you really believe her?

You're saying that the same trust circuitry that was blindsided by her EA (at best) is more than capable of detecting gaslighting?

She went over to her friend's house because you weren't there. What she did there is at best for a shoulder to cry on, at worst, it was strategic and she was getting her ducks in a row with her AP.

Let's just say she's admitted everything, left nothing out, and is truly such a "nice" person as to pursue another man and try to protect him from the discord caused by that pursuit. You'll still have doubts. They'll come at the most random times, and she'll often notice the shadow over your face. Do you really want that, 1 year, 10 years, down the road? You'll wish that you gathered up all the evidence that you could to make an informed decision TO BEGIN WITH.

She broke the marriage as soon as she cast her gaze at another man. Who knows if it can be fixed? Nobody yet, but one thing is for certain, if you're relying on her to lay down the baseline of reconciliation by virtue of her supposed truthfulness alone, then you're building a house on sinking sand.

Stop fooling yourself right now. Do the work that you need to do, and if she's deserving of R, then you won't be punishing her at random times even though she's telling the truth, and if she's not telling the truth, then the chips will fall where they may.

The way of D or R starts off on the same path.

If she can cross the line, by her own admission, into making passes at another man

Like others have said, I don't really know if I buy this or if she's protecting the AP in her crazy-logic mind -- but with this admission she just made this thing a helluva lot harder on herself.

Let's be honest, the vast majority of the time, a woman is pursued and the man is the pursuer. That doesn't take the weight off an adulteress, it simply adds context.

If she REALLY pursued him instead, then you've really got a shit show on your hands. Because what assurances could she offer for not doing this again?

[This message edited by Thumos at 12:07 PM, December 12th (Thursday)]

then you won't be punishing her at random times even though she's telling the truth

This is where I am with my WW - I don't believe her, and I think there's more to the story. In my case, my wife invited her AP over to our house and had sex with him in our home. That "one time" sex was trickle-truth confessed to within a week of D-Day, but if I'd had the polygraph right away I could have been assured one way or another if she was telling the entire truth to me.

As it was, I did not press forward with the poly and I set myself up for painful limbo.

I elected to stay because I don't want to be a part-time parent to my kids.

Do you really want to be where I am three years from now?

Because I can tell you, it's a special kind of hell.

She was unable to decide before she left.

What exactly was there to decide about? Was she seriously thinking that she would ride off into the sunset with her married affair partner? Or was she trying to hide the extent of her inappropriate relationship with him? Or...?

If I can't do this shit without constantly monitoring her then I just can't do it.

You aren't required to make any permanent decisions on anyone's timetable. Just follow your own plan and deal with the phone right now. If you can't recover the text messages yourself, just look up phone data recovery specialists in your area. They can usually do it within a few hours. For the rest, let her talk. Ask as many questions as you like and let her talk. And keep working on contacting his wife. Do not talk about that with your wife, just do it.

Obviously I can't just make amends on this in a day.

Just to be clear, it's not up to you to make amends; it's on her to restore your trust in her. She betrayed you, the responsibility to make amends is on her.

[This message edited by NotInMyLife at 12:12 PM, December 12th (Thursday)]

She just went to a friend's (female friend) which I have confirmed. She was unable to decide before she left.

And how do you know she didn't meet the AP over there so they could commiserate, canoodle and get their stories straight?

It is not uncommon AT ALL for a female friend to enable adultery for wives and to provide their homes as a landing spot for adulterous activity.

I agree with most everything said here. I think she left the house to get her story in order and decide just how much to share with you to keep you hooked in. There is more here for sure. She is not safe. Consequences need to start now. CANCEL your anniversary trip and tell her why.

The VAR and written timeline and polygraph are to ensure: 1) You have the real truth, not fake truth or half truth. Otherwise reconciliation doesn't work. 2) To ensure she's not taking the affair underground, which workplace affairs are notorious for.

^^^This. Right now there's no way in hell you can trust your wife.

She can purchase a burner phone. She still works with him. Any affair can happen during the day, before work hours, lunch hours, a couple of hours out of the office. Sometimes even in the office.

Inform the affair partner's wife without further delay.

The husband of my husband's OW (other woman) discovered the EA between my WH and his wife. Confronted them both. They apologized, said the EA would stop, blah, blah, blah. The husband never informed me. Well, several weeks later, his wife met up with my husband at his hotel when he traveled to her site. Had OW husband informed me of his discovery, the PA would have never happened.

^^^^Understand cheaters lie and lie and lie. They cannot be trusted, and it takes YEARS to earn that trust back. Your wife is the same as every other cheater.

Read this:

https://survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=406548

Your wife is going to lie, spin, and omit, details, and blameshift the story to her therapist.

Don't assume the therapist is your ally either. It's her therapist.

I differ from many, I don't trust therapists and their cheater clients.

Take care of business yourself.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 1:37 PM, December 12th (Thursday)]

^^^^You should be able to pick her therapist and be involved in the first meeting to set up some guard rails. If the therapist or your wife won't do this, then get another therapist. If your wife won't get another therapist, then leave her.

As I said, your best best is to find two IC's who work together in a partnership and who specialize in betrayal trauma. These are a relatively new type of therapist and they will NOT indulge cheaters in minimizing, trickle truth, blameshifting or rugsweeping. They've seen all the tricks, they work with some VERY shifty people and they can see through the bullshit.

[This message edited by Thumos at 1:08 PM, December 12th (Thursday)]

This0is0Fine:

What state do you live in? Its important b/c your 10 yr anniversary is coming up. If you are in a state with long term marriage after 10 yrs you have to act now!!!!!

Do not, and I repeat DO NOT LET THIS OPPORTUNITY GO!!!

Before the 20th, send her a formal email saying that you want to separate and discuss divorce proceedings. Remember, send it in an email and keep it safe, and see an attorney prior to the 20th even if you don't plan on divorcing. THis will save you on alimony. This is very important. YOu need to show the judge and courts that you have decided to cut the marriage short of the 10 yr mark. Do not let this opportunity go to waste.

You can hold off the divorce proceedings if she improves, but just in case, this will be your ACE. Get this started, so if you end up divorcing, you have your ducks in a row, and you won't have to fight the long term alimony fight in the courts.

This0is0Fine, read through that series of detailed action steps I outlined for you on page 2 of this thread, about four posts down.

Really think them through. They are all lined up that way for a reason, and they are inclusive for a reason as a package, not a series of isolated actions.

Take action now to get out in front of this before your wife really starts screwing with your head with major gaslighting games (which IS coming next for you, unless you move now).

Shock and awe is the only way forward for you now - whatever you decide to do. Inaction will only land in a more hellish world of pain than you already find yourself in.

[This message edited by Thumos at 1:22 PM, December 12th (Thursday)]

She just went to a friend's (female friend) which I have confirmed. She was unable to decide before she left.

This statement you made is what sticks out like a red herring.

WHAT THE FUCK WAS SHE UNABLE TO DECIDE????? If I read it correctly you told her you would not share her with another man right before she left. And you believe that she would be unable to decide her husband over a guy she only kissed and held hands with?????

Now she may have gone to this girlfriends, but you can be pretty sure of two things

(1) she talked to her OM while she was there

(2) this girlfriend was the one she said she was with when she lied to you about going out and met her OM. This girlfriend has to go.

You should be able to pick her therapist and be involved in the first meeting to set up some guard rails. If the therapist or your wife won't do this, then get another therapist

There is a 50-50 chance this therapist will tell your wife not to disclose all the details. Happens all the time and it seems like female therapists take this approach more often because they understand how toxic the details can be. At the very least, she needs to sign a document authorizing the therapist to provide you the results and discussion details of their sessions.

And since you have no idea how many texts you are trying to recover you are going to have no idea if or how many she deleted. I hope you do not think she was at girlfriends just having tea and discussing anything but how to fool you.

You should just tell her she is taking polygraph even if you are not sure you are going to do it. My guess is she will shit in her pants when the correct response should be great lets go do it.

And lastly, you mentioned if she deleted the texts youre done. I suggest you DO NOT make threats to her that you are not prepared to follow through on. That is why people are telling you to see an attorney because without doing that you can't be done and sating it and not doing it will send the wrong message.

[This message edited by BeyondRage at 2:04 PM, December 12th (Thursday)]

Most waywards initially agreed to a polygraph. They're not stupid. If they immediately say no, and refuse to take a polygraph, then it's kind of obvious they're still lying. So her reaction when you tell her to take a polygraph, means nothing.

You really need to schedule the test, and follow through with having her take it.

I'm 100% Pro reconciliation if the Betrayed spouse wants that. But you cannot begin to reconcile, until you know what you are reconciling from.

Your wife has minimozed and lied. You do not know the truth.

She went to a female friend's house last night? Do you think she didn't contact the other man? Of course she did. She asked him what she should do. He either told her to agree to try to reconcile, and they'll just take it underground, or he told her to go to hell and you are Plan B.

Don't you owe it to yourself to know what's really going on in your own life? Do not allow your wife, and the man she's been screwing around with, to pull the strings in your life. Take control.

The Betrayed husband's, on this forum, who had the most success with being able to reconcile with their wife, are the ones who are strong, no bullshit, and take control of the situation.