SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You want her to do all of those things voluntarily, because anything you force her to do,or she does out of guilt,won't mean a damn thing. We ALL get that.

The problem is.. she's not.

It's been 6 months since you started posting here. I'm not sure when your dday was. But,for at least the last 6 months, she's not doing any of those things. Because she doesn't want to. Bottom line. She doesn't want to. She wants you to shut up, stop acting like..what did she call you? A lost puppy? And just swallow your shit sandwich she's fed you like a good boy. She does not care about your pain.

Man..she DOES NOT CARE about your pain. If she did, she would give you what you need.

Instead, she tosses crumbs, and you get all excited, only to have her take those crumbs back.

This will not change. You have to change. You can either decide you will no longer tolerate the abuse, disrespect, and remove yourself from a woman who does not care about how you feel. Or don't. And live with a woman who doesn't care about you.

She's really leaving you no other options.

I want her doing it out of remorse, and reason not because she's pushing some desperate panic button.

That’s fine, but the appropriate response to her not being there with remorse enough to enable her to make the right choices for the right reasons (because she wants to for you and putting your relationship on a path to rebuilding), is for you to move on.

Move on with your life and stop trying to reconcile with a WW who doesn’t have that proper level of desire in order to repair the damage she caused.

Move on until she does. File, separate, detach. No matter what window dressing she puts on it, the house is still falling apart around you both until she puts in place the base foundation .... voluntarily.

The person you want her to be is not the person she actually is.

She is who she is and she did what she did. The two things are connected and always will be.

You have a simple choice to make- Stay with the person she actually is or leave.

You can not change who she is and she won't change.

Think about this though, and it's important to me. I don't want her doing stuff out of fear and self defense. I don't want her to send a resignation letter while crying and fighting and just generally in fight or flight mode. She did that once in January. She actually even resigned then withdrew her resignation in the most recent fight where I was pretty intent on D. I want her doing it out of remorse, and reason not because she's pushing some desperate panic button. Maybe she'll never get there. It does seem unlikely. Patience and restraint have perhaps not paid off so well as I had thought about a month ago.

You and I see things differently. I personally would just want that person to get themselves and us out of immediate danger, and then after the fact we can look at motivations.

But that doesn't really matter so much. What does matter is that 4 months have passed and she still is at her job. You surely have had discussions and arguments with WW about this in the meanwhile, and every time during those 4 months you have ended up caving. You know this is will end up badly for you, right?

Brother, you have to realize: She might have one foot out the door herself. She may still be pining over OM; she is reminded of him every time she signs into work and maybe she and he have actually been in touch. Now, as far as "patience and restraint", some people are wiling to change on their own initiative, some people can change but they need to be jolted into action, and maybe some people just cannot change period. Your WW clearly will not change on her own initiative, perhaps she would have changed/could still change if she were jolted into action. But that would be by someone who won't take her nonsense. Quite understandable if you decide that this was not you, this isn't what you signed up for.

The one self-respecting thing at this point, as far as I can see, is to tell WW that you just cannot put up with this anymore. And stick with it this time

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 6:40 PM, May 11th (Monday)]

Man..she DOES NOT CARE about your pain. If she did, she would give you what you need.

I resonate with this, because the same happened to me. I went through the EA with my now ex-wife for 9 months until she finally gave in and took it to a PA. She didn't care until I decided to end it. Now she's feeling remorseful. You may just be delaying the inevitable.

The person you want her to be is not the person she actually is.

She is who she is and she did what she did. The two things are connected and always will be.

You have a simple choice to make- Stay with the person she actually is or leave.

Will you be able to ever forgive her for this? She's forever changed, and she'll be forever changed in your mind too. She's a different person, as well as you. Can you live in this new reality? After I finally came to realize that, the answer was clear, and unfortunately it was what everyone on here was already saying.

I can, and actually have forgiven my WW for her A. That's really not what's at issue here.
The question is about the second thing, which is who she is now and the actions she is taking now. It feels like an overreaction to divorce her. But maybe it isn't.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 1:50 PM, Wednesday, May 19th]

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:30 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

TiF, it's not about whether this is an overreaction or not. And to be fair, D after infidelity is never an overreaction. Doesn't matter how much time has passed or if the WS is remorseful. What it's really about is YOU. Can you live with who she is today? Can you accept the risk of her restarting the A or finding a new OM in the future? How would you feel if in 6 more months, she files for D and all of this effort and time of yours was wasted? Do you want to be out of infidelity and healing?

If your WW was the kind of person who felt compassion for you and respected you, she would not have cheated and you would not be here right now. She can't just flip a switch and be the person you want her to be. She has to work towards it. You can stand up for yourself now and possibly see that from her in the future. But the longer you go without making those changes for yourself, the longer nothing changes. And when you do finally take a stand, you're likely to be met with even more pushback from her because it will look like you're taking steps back in moving on and you're the unreasonable one for suddenly having boundaries after a year or however long of letting her set the pace and tone of R/rugsweeping.

You have so much less to lose than you think. If she chooses D over R by refusing to do what is needed for R, she was never going to make it in the first place. It would be like her refusing to train for a marathon and expecting to take first place. It's just not going to happen. Either she does the work and reaps the rewards or she doesn't and she stays exactly how she is today.

What are your goals? Not about R but in general. Do you want a loving, honest, faithful relationship? Well, that's not what you have and so far there's been very little progress made towards one. Is your goal to be with your WW at all costs? Then honestly, you should give up on R and rugsweep. Not a choice I would recommend because I've done, I've lived it, and no one, especially someone who acts like your WW and like my XWBF, is worth that level of pain and mindfuck. It takes years to fully untangle mentally.

Those are your options if you refuse to act and demand change from her. You have a chance at R with your WW but you will never get it if you keep going as you have been these past 6 months.

TIF,

I want her doing it out of remorse, and reason not because she's pushing some desperate panic button.

What I see is that she has already pushed the panic button. She is scared that she is losing control. She is scared of what the future may hold.

Has she always had the need to be in control of everything? Has she ever ceded control of her life to you, or is she always the captain of her own ship?

Then, on the other side, have you always let her lead? Always been the chivalrous one and give in to what she wants? To bend your own needs to suit hers?

Do you think that by doing what she wants at the expense of your own self, that she will be happy, and hence you will be happy too? Tying your happiness to hers? If you are, you will have to stop this. Only you can make yourself happy. Never ever tie your own happiness to others.

If she trusted or had confidence in you (I know, I know, quite a wayward-thinking mindfuck), she would cede control of what happens over to you. Her job will no longer be an issue, as she would quit it, and leave it up to you. To let the BS control the WSs life?

Has she always had the need to be in control of everything? Has she ever ceded control of her life to you, or is she always the captain of her own ship?
Then, on the other side, have you always let her lead? Always been the chivalrous one and give in to what she wants? To bend your own needs to suit hers?
Do you think that by doing what she wants at the expense of your own self, that she will be happy, and hence you will be happy too? Tying your happiness to hers? If you are, you will have to stop this. Only you can make yourself happy. Never ever tie your own happiness to others.

We have mostly been partners in our relationship. Strictly speaking I have the more lucrative and specialized career so we moved for my job, though she was bound to have opportunities anywhere.
We take equal ownership in major decisions. House purchases (two), cars, having kids, pets.
We generally both sacrifice here and there as needed, but we both make time for ourselves and our hobbies.
Until the affair we haven't had power struggles or hard fights or anything like that. So it's not just the affair, it's the "harsh light" I think someone called it. It has shown us value differences where we didn't even look before.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 1:49 PM, Wednesday, May 19th]

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:30 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

Well, as someone who grew up in church I do get the concept of "forgiveness" from a spiritual sense. But the problem with you quote-forgiving-unquote your WW for her affair is that she now likely the impression that the slate is wiped clean in your relationship, and that now it's on you to get over what she did. I believe the term for this on here is "rug-sweeping".

You haven't done either of you a favor in the long run by being such a "nice guy". Your wife is still extremely wayward and seems to be even worse now than at D-Day. And now you and she are stuck in this pattern. It would have been much kinder of you as far as you and your family are concerned if you had taken a harder line.

I don't want to go on too much on how the many people on your thread were telling you more or less one thing and you instead decided on doing almost the complete opposite and look how this is turning out, but....yeah. For the benefit of your family you need to be leading more strongly.

Have you checked out "No More Mr Nice Guy" by Robert Glover. I think this book would really help you.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 2:49 PM, May 12th (Tuesday)]

Regarding you having forgiven your wife -I commend you because forgiveness is about you more than her -its about finding peace in your heart that she did what she did for selfish reasons and that the consequences thereof lies in their conscience -well if she has any.

I am 1 year and 6 months from my DD1 -to cut long story short .At 6 months(last June) I also felt divorce is drastic and harsh and maybe my WH made a really foolish mistake and we can fight for our family.

his A was with his subordinate and I asked him to let her go so I can have some sense of he is willing to really fight for us.He said he would do that in July last year and by last September she was not gone and whenever him and I had fights she was the person to fall on,as a result there were other DD after that -by December I made a decision that I was moving on as the person I married does not value me same way I value him .I started saving aggresively and I found a place in March but because of Lockdown I could not move.My point is I see me in you at the moment -you have hopes and wishes that she will do the right thing for you and your family.The questions I asked myself was if I had had an affair what would I have done,Definately I would have left my job to give my husband some sort of comfort that him and my family are the most important thing to me but he could not do that for me and let this lady go -so he definitely does not value me and kids they way I do ,its a painful thought but the truth.Some people do not love us the way we love them-they love themselves more and so they are not willing to make necessary compromises(I should not even call it a compromise becauase my husband should have not cheated period).Nowadays we discuss the way forward as I could be out of our house in a month or so and he still tells me that I should take responsibility on my part that caused the marriage breakdown -this tells me this person does not see his wrongs as he wants me to shoulder the blame with him...I said to him you are rensposible for the affair, i never drove you to cheat because if that was the case I too have enough grounds to cheat since I know you cheated I too could say well you are driving me to cheat -but I do not cause I respect myself, the vows I made and commitment .I am leaving because I cannot trust him to put our family first and I understand when you say its the after cheating actions that you fight about because I too had accepted the cheating and wanted to work things out but he showed me that only I wanted that and he wanted to have his cake and eat it to. Ask yourself if you had cheated what would you have done to save your marriage? Why can she not do that? Is she then deserving of a person like you if she will not do what you would have done for her?

I know its not easy to give up memories, hopes and dreams (I am so sad some days because this family was my everything).I can definitely tell you this- one day you will wake up and realise that you deserve better than a person who cannot firmly show you love and care as you deserve-especially after they betrayed your trust and should be working hard to getting it back.

Oh forgot to mention the affair partner is a married woman so imagine my husband choosing to save another persons marriage over his own family(this hurt me badly -I lost 10kgs), I realized this person is messed up and will mess me up(Bad company corrupts good character) .I do not want someone who will be a hero to another woman and but a monster to his own wife that is supposed to he his number one priority.I have learnt that when people do not prioritize you , you also should not prioritize them-its easier said then done but slowly I am gathering strength to take care of me as I realised no one will do that for me.

So it's not just the affair, it's the "harsh light" I think someone called it. It has shown us value differences where we didn't even look before.

Then she is panicking. She is scared that she is losing control of her life, and the 'harsh light' exposed her wayward thinking.

In her panic, she is trying to wrest control away from you. she will keep her job because it gives her control.

Your WW is not a candidate for R (obviously). she has not shown remorse, but is deep in guilt.

So I found out my WF was in a LTA, not just an A. She started way before my WW. She says she didn't support her, but I don't really buy it.
BIL didn't really do jack shit.
My WF's husband definitely dropped some bombs but didn't file. He went to AP's house and had his morning coffee on the sidewalk in front of it...
In a conversation about the fights we had and what we could fix and what we couldn't, my wife said she was initially hurt about my accusation that her priorities were 1) her, 2) her friends, 3) her friends' husbands, and I don't even think I register on there. She said now that she basically agreed that her friends come before me in her feelings of loyalty. She said she knew her husband should come first but that it wasn't how she operated.
It's time to plan for D, and to get ready to file. I mean, it really already was, it's just she keeps pounding nails into the coffin even after saying she didn't want to D when I asked for one straight up after what I learned spying on her.
It's too bad.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 1:44 PM, Wednesday, May 19th]

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:29 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

T,

She said now that she basically agreed that her friends come before me in her feelings of loyalty. She said she knew her husband should come first but that it wasn't how she operated.

Did WW give you any indication that she might have even the slightest awareness why you didn’t come first?

I continue to be amazed at how little effort WW seems to be putting in to your M, let alone her apparent lack of any self-awareness or willingness to grow from this at all. D is sad, but if you stay in R. I believe you will be perpetually frustrated and disappointed. Pick your poison – short term pain or the pain of a festering wound that never quite heals. Stay strong.

Glad you woke up. Painful to watch you twist yourself into a pretzel. Your wife is a POS.

Glad you woke up. Painful to watch you twist yourself into a pretzel. Your wife is a POS.

I can bend my fingers all the way to the back of my hand. Hard to say if that demonstrates my flexibility, pain tolerance, or both...
I still don't think she's a POS. Just flawed in a way I can't and won't deal with in perpetuity.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 1:43 PM, Wednesday, May 19th]

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:29 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

Glad you're finally starting to see what everyone has been trying to tell you for 47 pages. It takes everyone a different amount of time to wake up to this situation b/c of our own past history and traumas growing up.

TIF, its time to implement the 180 and NC. Go over the the D/S forum and the fine folks over there will help you on that journey. At least in that journey, there is light at the end of the tunnel. There is really nothing left for you in this Marriage. If your Wife prioritizes her friends over you, she shouldn't have married. Thats a GOD awful thing to say to your husband, but I guess, at lease she's being honest for ONCE. Believe her, and now steel yourself for D. She is not going to give you an easy Divorce. She's already shown you who she really is.

I am not going to divorce her right away even though I've settled on it. I'm not trying to waste her time or anything, but it will work out better to wait for a bit. Right now we are living amicably in lock down. No reason to max out stress right away.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 1:42 PM, Wednesday, May 19th]

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:29 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

That's fine, but you still need to start thinking about that in terms of division of assets, custody..... No one is getting a D right now, unless you do it via ZOOM, but that doesn't mean that you don't prep and get emotionally ready for D.

If you haven't already, speak with an attorney and get the 411 on your states guidelines for support and so forth. Knowledge is power. If that's the way its headed, you'll want to have separate bank accounts, and to start thinking in those terms. It takes time, but you'll get there.

You should also stop interacting with her about the affair, and her friends. It does you no good. You already know its going to be painful to hear, and it will set you back in your recovery. You need to detach, like everyones been telling you. No more talking to her about the relationship. This is to protect you from further hurt. It works.