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I have never posted before. I am new to this site but D-Day was Sept 2017. We had been married 18 years together for 24 years (high school)

My WW was in a long term emotional affair with my brother. Since before we were married. It became an A 1 month before D-Day. I found out when I became suspicious of how they were treating each other at a get together of my family at our house for my birthday. I looked through her computer and found deleted texts and some pictures (which she always refused to text me).

I confronted her but couldn’t stand to confront him without blowing up. She and I met on a dark country road reconciled that night. And she called me out on a long history of sexual abuse of her that she has had to suffer through since the beginning of our relationship. I had not been a good husband or partner sexually or emotionally for all of our marriage. We took a step back from our marriage and decided to date while we worked on ourselves and our relationship. We reached out to our pastor who starts MC that night and both she and I started IC. At his recommendation, we agreed to be in an NC with my brother.

The first 6 months were difficult but we made it through though there were several episodes of contact some that I have only recently found out about, and an awkward whole family Christmas. We renewed our vows and both were baptized on New Year's Eve the day after the last known contact between them. She said she was just checking on him after the awkward Christmas, and to tell him that we were happy together.

I have been so happy without new marriage everything has been going overall great. We have forgiven each other. The marriage was new our treatment of each other has changed in every way time spent, attention to each other, emotionally and sexually. When I look into her eyes I see love and more love than ever before this. But I have still been on an emotional rollercoaster suicidal several times due to self-worth issues. I have never attempted. I have talked with my counselor about this and am still working on me.

This feels like a jumble of information, but… somedays it still feels jumbled in my head. My parents had passed separately in the 2 years before D-day. Prior to this I would have said my family was the most important thing in my life, brother sisters, etc. I spent every holiday in hoe town. Lived in home town for many of the years of our marriage. I would have said that my brother was the best friend I had, he was my Best man at the wedding there was no competition for the position. He is 6 years older and I have looked up to him for my entire life. He has always been the guy I wanted to live up to, to impress. I thought he felt the same way. But post-D-day of course, everything has changed. I feel like, for the most part, my siblings have tried to sweep it under the rug. They want me to try to behave as nothing happened. No one has confronted him or talked to him. I have tried to reconnect for many reasons some good some bad. One was our kids. We have 4 kids and only 1 knows because she was a teen at the time of the A and we knew she would notice and figure out and resent not knowing the truth. The other 3 boys don’t and they have always been very connected to him. He has always been and still seems to be a great uncle. Our NC was never full or complete. We have shared family threads with kids and adults on messenger and apple messages. There has been continued conversation on these since the beginning. I can see all the messages on there, but it has always felt like a way to stay connected, though she denies that.

This month I was looking through emails and for some reason, Gmail popped up several drafts of a “goodbye” letter she sent to him 1 month after D-Day. It revealed some stuff that was old but opened up new wounds. And some brand new information. Like the fact she decided to reconcile with me because “she made a commitment all those years ago, even if my heart wasn’t in it”. She says in it that “As I said, I will always love you no matter what happened.” We had the biggest fight we have had since the last known contact- new year’s eve, eve 2017. She feels it is all in the past and old news. She says she doesn’t feel this way anymore and she just wants to continue our life. In, some ways it feels like I was living a lie, am living a lie. Why did I have to find that F-ing letter?

I don’t want to keep bringing it up because it sends her into a spiral of shame and then I spiral as well because it makes me feel terrible. I don’t know how to fully explain it to her. Honestly, I have always thought they made a better couple than me and her, I have several times asked her to leave me and go be with him so that She doesn’t have to keep being on this roller coaster with me.

How can I ever feel secure? Is there hope…. Sometimes I feel like there is hope sometimes not… Right now I feel like…. maybe… But I am cycling from feeling like "I can't believe I would question her anymore" to... spending hours at night trying to find keylogger apps for iPhones...

Wow that is a jumble...

When did the affair start? When did it end? When was your D-DAY 2?

Sorry to say, but there is more about this affair that you don't know than you do know.

Further, the odds of it being an Emotional Affair are almost zero, I am sorry to say.

Why didn't you seek help before with this. It kind of seems like you handled a lot of this wrong, and I am betting you still are.

The last thing that you said about her, sounds like the standard cheater rug sweeping...

Does any of that make sense?

Hi Mit.

I don’t have the same situation as you do but I do have a husband desperate to reconcile. I believe him now. I’m not going to tell you how I verify it, but I will send you a quick pm about it. I don’t think he is lurking here but I try to be careful. What I do know is that watching him and verifying his actions is what made me believe him, not just listening to his words and seeing how he acts when I’m around. Verifying makes me feel better. Nothing he says right now gives me that sense of security. We aren’t as far from dday as you but I am slowly starting to trust his good intentions.

I think it is particularly hard for you because it was your brother. Good for you for doing minimal contact even though he is family. He didn’t worry too much about family when he went after your wife did he? I would say absolutely use whatever methods to verify that give you piece of mind. Too bad if she doesn’t like it. Would she be willing to let the social media go? Or you could do it as a couple. One account. If you decide to do the keylogger, my advice would be not to rush it. Do your research so you know the best one to use and make sure you know how to use it. I doubt this far from dday that she will suspect it if you haven’t tried this before. As for guilt about it? You are trying to save your marriage. She lied and almost wrecked your marriage. I think a little detective work levels the playing field.

As for the worry that we will spend the rest of our lives playing detective? I really don’t think that’s true. Once I was given the complete truth, I find my need to check things is slowly fading. I still check but it doesn’t feel urgent and I have never found anything even remotely suspicious.

I don't have any way of knowing if you have reasonable hope. I do know you're not adhering to some basic practices that support R, at least from what you've posted so far.

First, let me see if I understand what you've written: you say that your W has been in an EA with your brother since 1999 and that the EA turned into a PA in August, 2017. Is that correct?

You are both still in contact with om. That makes it very hard to put the A in the past.

Your quick decision to R, etc., sounds a lot like you didn't talk much about the A. Is that an accurate reading? If so, you've probably 'rug-swept' a lot, and it's probably haunting you.

How big a blow was that letter? After my W's A, I wasn't interested in R unless she loved me, was in love with me, and agreed to be monogamous going forward. IOW, reading that letter would have ended my M. Do you really want to spend the rest of your life with someone who loves your brother, not you?

We talk of your type of sitch as a 'double betrayal' - betrayal by your WS and by another person you are close to. In your case, I would think it's worse than that, because your family is urging you to rug-sweep. But you're not alone in being betrayed by 2 people who should have your back - check out the Double Betrayal thread in the ICR forum: https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=512858

Is your brother married? If so does his W know of his A? How has she responded? If she doesn't know, I urge you to tell her now, with an apology for keeping the knowledge to yourself for so long.

*****

So ... Is there hope for you to R?

IDK. What do you think? What do you really want that's attainable?

Thank you for the replies,

When did the affair start? When did it end? When was your D-DAY 2?

The emotional affair started spring of 1999, we married that august. The physical affair started august 23, 2017 and ended Sept 26 2017.

I am not sure what I would call D-Day 2, was it when I found out there was a physical component to the affair and no just "some kissing". Is it when I found this last letter? cause then D-Day#2: 9/29/18, D-Day

#3 12/31/2019.

We did and have sought help, MC from the beginning (I know that is advised against but I didn't know better and he helped us work through much of the initial boundaries with family). Both IC: starting within a month of D-Day. We definitely handled a lot of this wrong.

Maybehurtforever,

My wife is also desperate for reconciliation. I don’t know that I would say that she was as desperate for the first 3 months after the A ended. But I would say for the 2 years since then, I have seen nothing new, in constant computer/phone checking. I do have all her passwords and she never had any problem with that. I know I can ask for her phone at any time and look at anything I want. Thank you for the PM, some of that may be doable. Having a combined account is something we have frequently talked about.

sisoon

1. yes hopefully above dates clarified that.

2. Yes and I would say impossible.

3. Yes that is accurate I have realized that there was not nearly enough working and talking through the A. But, since this letter, I was also desperate for R.

4. It was a tremendously huge blow. It was written and deleted 10/2017 (1 month after D-Day) but I didn’t find it till 12/2019. If I had found it then we would not be in R. I would have said goodbye because I had the same rules moving forward. Being 2 years into R and more than 2 years since she wrote it was not as relationship shattering. Prior to finding it, I was feeling like we had each done a lot of healing. I felt that she does love me. That she wants to be in this marriage. So, yes, I do want to be married to her. I am still deeply in love with her. I know that many on this site say that there is no responsibility to the BS and I understand that. But, I think there are instances where the level of brokenness in the marriage prior to the A needs to be taken into account. As I shared above there was a level of abuse and neglect that she lived in for 24+ years of our relationship. (We were together in High school). I felt and still do that for her to decide to choose me over my brother(whom I stupidly still feel is the better man)(How come I still believe that?!) after the amount of pain I put her through was a harder choice than for me to forgive the A.

5. I posted it in That forum and someone responded that I should probably post elsewhere as it doesn’t get a lot of traffic.

6. He is not married, no GF.

[This message edited by Mltakagu at 9:35 PM, February 6th (Thursday)]

An 18 year EA between 2 ppl that had access to each other?

Brother, please tell me you don't believe that.

So how do you know, for certain, that she was only having sex with your brother for the 1 month before D-Day?

Did she take a polygraph?

It’s just hard to believe that an affair between adults, spanning nearly two decades, would just be emotional.

I recommend separating recovery - processing the feelings that come with being betrayed - from R - building your M.

I don't see how you can come close to fully recovering while still in contact with (enmeshed in?) your family, because you indicate they support your brother, not you. And the fuller the recovery, the more complete R will be.

I can't imagine R being easy in your sitch.

Having said that, I recommend separating what you want (R) from what you will do (D, R, wiat for more data), so jumping into R so quickly was a mistake, IMO. But you can go back and do the things you need to do to R even now.

Those things include 1) figuring out your requirements for R and seeing if your W will agree to meet them, 2) defining what your new M will be, and 3) your W may have some requirements, too, and you get to agree to meet them or not.

Also, have you considered IC for yourself. a good IC can help in ways an internet forum can't (and vice versa).

What does your W say about what you've both been doing to recover and R?

What do you think about the possibility that the PA started earlier than 2017? I, too, am skeptical about umpteen years of EA, though of course I can't know.

[This message edited by sisoon at 1:26 PM, February 7th (Friday)]

Like someone else said, please do not believe that they were having a emotional affair for 18 years.

I don't think that is even possible.

You don't really believe that do you?

Ask yourself this, you know your brother, do you think he would be in "love" with your wife and not screw her for 18 years?

No, you do not believe that for a second.

If you do, you need to put down the hopium pipe and get real...

1. It is a great question, it has been something that has crossed my mind. I do believe it was an 18 year EA, but maybe it is better to describe as an 18-year bilateral secret crush? Having read what I have read from her messages and emails there is no evidence of physical interaction before that.

Also, their "access" was not constant during that time as well have lived a state or more away for most of our 20 years of marriage.

How I identified the relationship was because there was a significant change in how they were treating each other.

I would have said prior to Dday that I did know my brother and what he was capable of. Now not so much.

2. No Polygraph we live in the middle of nowhere. And until recently would have never thought of getting one.

Sisoon

Thank you again for your response. I made that decision last night. that we would separate from him entirely with a complete unbreakable non-contact. It was a long night of talking but she never once refused. We are combining Facebook accounts and I have her messenger app on my Ipad.

I have been in IC at the beginning and am now again. She was in IC at the beginning but is not now.

Is there some way to go about "defining" our marriage. What does that mean? I defined it as monogamous.

She has felt like we have done a lot. She has forgiven me for my history of abuse and I have forgiven her. We have marriage wise been doing very well. I think she would say that she feels like we have talked enough about A, but she is willing to go to MC. Work through one of the books recommended here with me. She was willing to give up all contact with him including contact him contacting our kids. So it seems like she is willing to continue working on it.

Mltakagu, it sounds like you believe your marriage issues were enmeshed with her affair and that's not true at all. If she was fed up with your abuse, she had options. She could have demanded IC/MC for you. She could have separated. She could have divorced. But instead she chose the worst possible option - having an A with your brother. That's low. Has she ever told you why she did that? And could you clarify in what ways you were abusive to her and whether she brought that to your attention before DDay?

Hi,

I don't normally post in here but I was bored so I read your story.

The love of my life, my first gf Stacey, she told me she would love me forever. We broke up and I haven't talked to her since.

My first wife told me she would love me forever. We divorced for various reasons.

My next major relationship told me the same and the women that brought me here told me the same. So we know that in my case women like to tell me that but it's not true.

I don't read your initial post with view that her letter to him was anything other than her way of trying to end the relationship with your asshole brother nicely. What you said she wrote seems like a gently let down, saying she owed it to fix the marriage

Like the fact she decided to reconcile with me because “she made a commitment all those years ago, even if my heart wasn’t in it”.

maybe her heart wasn't in it at first maybe it is now.

You refer to your part with some vague sexual stuff, which she didn't like. Yeah that happens, she could have talked to you but she chose to confided in your prick of a brother.

I think you can read it in a variety of ways and if you look in her eyes and see love and feel that you have a better marriage now than before, MAYBE YOU FUCKING DO.

Your asshole brother is the problem. He should be excised from your life like the shit filled boil that he is.

He is your family and he chose to fuck you over, your wife did the same but you are trying to fix that.

You know the situation better than all of us but it seems to me she is sorry.

[This message edited by sorryforeverythi at 7:04 PM, February 7th (Friday)]

Defining M ... I think for me it's stuff like: doing things together, monogamous sex, doing things for each other (like when one of us is sick or when a skill is needed and only one of us has the skill), enjoying life together, sharing thoughts/feelings....

I'm going to have to ask my W this question....

*****

Is there no hangover from your abuse? Does your W have unresolved feelings about being abused? If so, you both probably have more work to do in that area. (I'm assuming you stopped the abuse.)

Same question about the A. Usually, the more you both talk about the A, the more solid the healing. But that means getting all your important questions answered.

Important questions: if PA doesn't bother you any more than the EA does, it's not important to get many details. If it makes a difference when the PA started, you do need answers, which means you need to ask questions.

How often do betrayed Spouses feel like ending it all, life not marriage. Not some stunt to get the attention of the WS. But just an end to the fear, the worry, the self blaming.

No, I don't need anyone to call 911 and send it to my current IP address. I just talked with my therapist, in fact I am still in his office, I am on medication. I am not having the desire to harm myself currently.

I can honestly say (and I have talked to my therapist about it) that I have considered it multiple times. I was actually very close twice and my WS stopped me.

I ask because i haven't seen it talked about much on the board here, and maybe I am just missing those posts. But, it has seemed many times like it might be the best option for all parties involved. I know that when I feel that way it is not the truth. So how many here have had to talk them selves out of it, how many here have had to have others talk them out of it.

If you have thought about it, how did your WS react when they found out. how has it affected the recovery. My WS has used her fear of my being suicidal to hide thing from me because she was worried I would go down that path. Is that just an excuse she is using to continue the trickle truth? Is there anyway to convince her? Am I just finding another reason to blame myself for her lies?

For anyone here that is currently feeling that way. I know talking about it is hard, I know it feels like no one will understand, I know it feels if not the "only way" at least the "best way". I promise you they are lies. Please reach out to someone you know who cares about you, or your doctor or a therapist or call this number 800-273-TALK for a national suicide help line.

I ask because i haven't seen it talked about much on the board here, and maybe I am just missing those posts.

A couple of times I actually took a pair of scissors and help them in one hand, while I slowly ran the point of the scissors across the other wrist. I don't think I wanted to die, I just wanted to know if the pain got worse, there was a way out. I was very upfront with my therapist, psychiatrist and husband. Both of those few moments, I saw a light at the end of the tunnel. That happened about four months after Dday, and it hasn't happened since, but I am currently still trying to figure out medications, etc. It sucks. I have C-PTSD due some other traumas that happened while the last affair was going on, as well as during the ensuing months after that, which were unrelated.

FWIW, my last trickle truth came out about the time of your Dday, so we're relatively on the same timeline.

R isn't a perfect process and there isn't just one size fits all.

You guys did some things right (counseling, choosing 'who' and 'what' you want to be, starting a new marriage with new vows).

The continued contact with the OM/brother and not confronting him was a mistake. Why? because it's now coming back to haunt and undermine your 'new' marriage.

I have zero tolerance for your brother's behavior. IMO, your brother is a unusually low POS. Every time your brother sees/talks to you he's being deceitful and a fraud.

Your brother does not have the right to the respect & trust of your 3 sons.

IMO, for your own mental health, you have to make a choice between your marriage vs family harmony (and a brother that betrayed you). It's not too late to expose the affair.