SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

This sounds seriously codependent to me.

Preposterous.

A marriage is two individuals. My husband and I will both make many decisions and actions every day.

I congratulate you on that. I choose not to make decisions that will harm my spouse. Not making decisions that ignore the good of my spouse is not codependence; itis being loving, kind, thoughtful, and empathetic.

Affairs are horrific betrayals of trust. However,

I stand by my belief that they do not mean that the WS hates the BS. I think that is rather a large leap.

Don't make the leap.

All the best to you. If you genuinely believed such a thing, I don't know how anyone could ever possibly reconcile. How could you want to stay married to someone who you believe hates you?

Believed, not believes. My love for her is not conditional. I know some people have trouble understanding this, but it is who I am.

My XWH tried to tell me he doesn't hate me. He pretends I'm dead, he left behind every gift I ever gave him when he moved out, he never talked to me about any of the details, when it started, how it started, etc. His lips were curling when he spoke to me on DDay about how I went to visit my cousin and left him to take care of his Dad by himself. He left me to deal with this house and everything in it, including his horrid mess in the garage. He also knew I was completely blindsided and never saw it coming because he was such a good actor. And he knew I trusted him 100%.

I was his wife for 45 yrs. A loyal and faithful wife who gave up a lot for him. I told him that I really and truly believed that I had at least put in enough to have earned some respect from him at that point, enough that I deserved some answers and some honesty.

If that's not hate, I don't know what is. What could he have done worse to me in his effort to destroy me? I can't imagine what he could've done worse if he did indeed "hate" me.

Any spouse who steps out of their marriage is acting out of hate on some level. If they aren't thinking, well, they've stepped out of the marriage. Stepping outside of one's marriage can't be done with any love whatsoever. Some WS's can say they still loved their BS but if they believe that, they really don't know what love is because committing such an abomination against their spouse is the most horrific thing a person can do to another.

I literally said to my XWH that it would've been kinder to have put a bullet in my head than what he did to me. I believed it then and I believe it now, 3 years and 2 weeks later.

There are a few people I've known who I hate but I still couldn't do such terrible things to them even though they deserve it. And yet I do understand that some people believe that a person can do terrible things to another person and not hate them. I can't wrap my head around it but it is what it is.

josiep:

I am terribly sorry you experienced such terrible things.

How about the fun one where your wife had so many AP's that she can't keep any of the details straight?

You should add:

Have I ever met your AP before? (If the name is unknown)

How would you feel if I was having an affair? Wait for response. Then ask, how would you respond to my affair?

Otherwise, 36yearsgone - Dude, you have been going through this a long time. You recently moved back in with your WS. Have you posted something in reconciliation about that? Just asking because you like to focus on projects outside of your marriage. You also have a need to be right. On the internet that is like trying to get the last word as someone wants to leave a room.

With the affairs being an act of hate.

I don't buy that. I think it is an act of selfishness and rationalization/justification.

Usually the BS isn't considered at all because they are the person's socks and shoes in the fall. Nice, warm, but they got wet last week and made squish sounds. Why do I really need them? I see sandals are fun and I can wear them when I am having fun during the day. Then it gets cold and the WS wants their socks and shoes back. Problem is they left those at home and they are busy having fun. Shoes aren't for fun.

See, the WS associates the BS to something everyday, that will always be there. Then they see something new that has only 1 purpose and never could be for a long term but it is FUN. Do they hate shoes? Not really. They just don't care because they want FUN. Try smoking, alcohol, or drugs and you would understand. You don't hate your body, you just want the rush. your body can take it right?

Indifference. It is worse than hate. Try it some time. That is why you want to say it was hate. Then it means she actually thought about you before cheating. Instead she was already so far down the path, she forgot about you (Worse than trying to spite you or get your attention). The first boundary was an act of hate. Revenge for some slight or lack of attention. You forgot to put away her creamer and she had to drink her coffee black. So she flirts with the guy at the gas station while buying coffee because she is pissed.

That is how it starts. Something stupid that the WS justifies. Is the justifying the evil/hateful part? Was flirting wrong? It wasn't really before? When did that boundary get crossed?

It slowly builds usually, then before they know it, they are wearing sandals in the winter complaining about how cold it is and they miss their shoes.

Otherwise, 36yearsgone - Dude, you have been going through this a long time. You recently moved back in with your WS. Have you posted something in reconciliation about that? Just asking because you like to focus on projects outside of your marriage. You also have a need to be right. On the internet that is like trying to get the last word as someone wants to leave a room.

I don't know how to respond to this. If I say, "I disagree," does that prove your point that I need to right?

I appreciate your perspective and I will earnestly try to leave my ego at the door.

** posting as a member **

36,

You are arguing that hate is the opposite of love. It's not. Indifference is. You seem to think As are about love. That's not what I take from my reading - my bet is that it's far more accurate to say that As are about emotional dysfunctions in WSes.

You're making affairs about the BS, when they are about the WS losing track of reality. What has your W said about the role you played in her cheating? You may feel attacked, but did she cheat to attack you?

You seem to think being betrayed can't hurt unless the WS attacked the BS by cheating. That's not my experience - I can't describe the pain I felt about the sex, the lies, and the fact that my W cheated despite my love for her.

But she didn't cheat to express anger at me - she thought I'd never find out, so I wouldn't be hurt. In fact, far from wanting to hurt me, she hid her A so as not to hurt me (aand to protect herself, of course).

You're hung up on blame. Blame doesn't heal.

I agree with PST1's comments. Consider that, 36. That's 2 people with vastly different experiences from each other drawing essentially identical conclusions about what you've written.

I also urge you to consider Bigger's tagline from Epictetus:

If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone.

[This message edited by sisoon at 11:34 AM, May 14th (Thursday)]

I don't post much anymore 36 years..

I will offer you my experience.

My spouse hated me. That emotion was not based in reality but it certainly was hate. For imagines slights, letdowns, etc.

His affair was about me....a big FUCK you for hurting and letting him down. He was just willing to sacrifice his own morals to make sure he let know how much he hated me for not filling the holes in his spirit. He hated himself for having those holes.

Two people have also drawn the conclusion that their spouses hates them during the affair. Because the experience of each of us during this is different.

Please feel free to private message if you want to talk.

You are arguing that hate is the opposite of love. It's not. In difference is. You seem to think As are about love. That's not what I take from my reading - my bet is that it's far more accurate to say that As are about emotional dysfunctions in WSes.

I agree that indifference can be the opposite of hate. And perhaps it would've been better for me to word my questions/statements in that way.

quote]You're making affairs about the BS, when they are about the WS losing track of reality. What has your W said about the role you played in her cheating? You may feel attacked, but did she cheat to attack you?

I do not believe I am making affairs about the BS. I am trying to get into the mind of a WS and his/her convoluted thinking.

You seem to think being betrayed can't hurt unless the WS attacked the BS by cheating?

I don't think that all.

That's not my experience - I can't describe the pain I felt about the sex, the lies, and the fact that my W cheated despite my love for her.

ok.

But she didn't cheat to express anger at me - she thought I'd never find out, so I wouldn't be hurt. In fact, far from wanting to hurt me, she hid her A so as not to hurt me (aand to protect herself, of course).

This seems to me to be a topic for a another thread. But I'll respond. I know nothing about what motivates anyone to cheat. Let's take, love, hate and indifference out of the equation. While your WS did not intend on hurting you, she still took the risk. I have no idea how she weighed the risk vs. rewaed, but she still choce a path that resulted in you getting hurt.

You're hung up on blame. Blame doesn't heal.

I am sorry if the way I have worded the topic of this post or my comments/questions has caused you to come to concluding that I am hung up on blame. I'm not. The blame falls squarely on those who cheat.

Thank you for your response, sisoon.

Because the experience of each of us during this is different.

Yes, all our experiences are different; but there are some commonalities.

I agree with PST1's comments. Consider that, 36. That's 2 people with vastly different experiences from each other drawing essentially identical conclusions about what you've written.

Make that 3, although I'm not arguing that this is a question that's settled by vote (and if it were, I'm under no illusion that my "side" would win). I'm just pointing out that if this is intended as a debate rather than a rant, there are experienced members here who support different interpretations.

I know nothing about what motivates anyone to cheat.

I do. I'm not proud of it, but it's not speculation, either. If I hated anyone, I hated myself. I was trying to find cheap ways to alleviate that hatred, and I was so wrapped up in myself that I ignored the consequences to my BH.

If I were to cheat on a test, what would be my motivation? To get something I wanted that I didn't or couldn't earn honestly. Possibly to prove that I was smart enough to beat the system. But I don't think it's common for someone to cheat because they hate their teacher. This doesn't mean they can't hate their teacher. They may blame their teacher for their own inadequacies. They may rewrite the narrative to where the teacher's failings left them no choice. I'm sure that happens. I'm just saying that they don't have to hate their teacher.

I knew people who cheated on tests given by teachers they liked and admired. The students in question were so morally compromised that they didn't see the deep disrespect of spitting on the teacher's hard work or the theft of credit they didn't earn. They didn't plan to get caught, so they saw it as a victimless crime. They knew it was regarded as wrong, and that they'd lose what they were after if they got caught, so they hid it. However, that was rote, unexamined self-preservation. The true consequences of their actions did not cross their radar at all.

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 12:04 PM, May 15th (Friday)]