Cookies are required for login or registration. Please read and agree to our cookie policy to continue.

Newest Member: ConcernedObserver

General :
"WW claims she finds me more attractive than former AP"

This Topic is Archived
default

 LostOpportunities20 (original poster member #74401) posted at 11:30 PM on Thursday, June 18th, 2020

Buck

It's not uncommon though. WW's often are lacking self esteem, or they need their self esteem shored up by someone adoring and desiring them. So they "pick" the loser that's sniffing around knowing full well he will look up to them and almost worship them. The attraction comes from the AP's desire for them, it's not necessarily that he is some ripped lothario that has a 10 inch pecker. He is some scumbag that's willing to cheat on his wife, which makes my WW feel like she's something special, and pursue a married woman. He adores her and validates all of her resentments against you. The lower status guy will compliment her constantly and tell her how wonderful she is and that he's the only person that truly appreciates her, especially more than her H. Another thing, he knew she was married, he should assume she's having sex. Yet, he doesn't mind, what does that say about their true love? My WW's AP proposed marriage to her after she ended things. She said no and he later ratted her out to me just for spite. Oh, and AP picked up a DV charge during the A too. His wife questioned him and he beat her.

It is scary just how much of this rings true for my story (other than the DV part, but FWWs AP was pretty crappy to 2 consecutive marriages of his own while he carried on with FWW)

I don't particularly feel the need to think lowly of the AP (though I dislike him) - it still comes down to how bad my FWW made me feel. Again, no matter how remorseful she is in actions and words now, I still have my downturns just as I am having one the last couple of days

Candyman66

Thanks for the guidance. I'll just stick it in this thread.

BH (50s) WW (50s) EA 2008, EA 2009

Confessed the first, I caught her the second.

Not sure what to call it, but I guess we're in R.

posts: 229   ·   registered: May. 7th, 2020
id 8552459
default

Justsomelady ( member #71054) posted at 11:32 PM on Thursday, June 18th, 2020

It also helps to add your story to your profile page so people can refer to it on other threads

Be responsible for telling the truth. Not managing other people’s reactions to it - Mel Robbins .

posts: 512   ·   registered: Jul. 20th, 2019   ·   location: Midatlantic
id 8552460
default

standinghere ( member #34689) posted at 12:19 AM on Friday, June 19th, 2020

No Plan Survives Contact with the Enemy

Personally, I think identifying somebody as plan A or plan B or plan C or otherwise, it’s really not a very useful way of looking at this.

People do stupid things. People do stupid things all the time. All of us do stupid things. I was working on some thing on my house, it was a great idea, but because I was working on it, I discovered something much fucking worse, which required several weekends of work to fix, and did not involve infidelity.

This was something much simpler than marriage, much simpler than relationships, much simpler than general life with other people.

Plan A turned into Plan B, turned into plan C, and ended up with the gas company having to come out and fix the gas leak in addition to all the other crap I had to fix. All because 30 years ago somebody thought something was a good idea, snd instead of spending less than five dollars on a piece of flashing, they used their good idea.

People who cheat on their spouse are usually unhappy, dissatisfied, with some aspect of their life, for reasons that they may not even be able to identify, if you were to ask them. This is not really isolated to just one person, it’s pretty much everybody, end it doesn’t have to be something external to them, it can be either internal feelings of satisfaction.

They cheat, because they have not developed the skills to deal with this in a non-cheating manner. They may cheat because they actually think this is the way to deal with these problems. This may be their philosophy. They may have simply developed the “skills” of cheating, as a way of dealing with these issues, simply because of the way they were raised, or the lessons they learned whether they were intentional or not intentional.

I don’t think any of us dealt this hand would question the simple opinion, if you will, that if our cheating spouses had found somebody else who was so fucking incredible, so “the entire package”, do it all, be it all, they would’ve left us, left us for the other person, or at least left us because they found that there was something much better out there.

The reality is, however much it sucks, that cheaters usually get exactly what they deserve. They get some loser, doesn’t matter how rich they are, accomplished they are, handsome they are, tall, short, skinny, etc., who’s willing to cheat, betray, sneak around, engage in a bunch of drama, like a teenager who doesn’t have a job, and too much time on their hands.

That’s your Plan A?

I don’t know about the rest of you, but if that’s your idea of a good Plan A, I would question the decision making for a long time.

My wife cheated on me, I think in the back of her head, at least at some level, there was some idea that she would leave me, that the affair partner might be “the one” that she would leave me with, and that they would somehow make it all work out. She and he would work together, manage all the problems that would come up, etc.

If you step back from the situation, and look at the facts of the situation, the facts, not the emotions, that idea is so fucking insane, so ludicrous, you would understand that even if it was “Plan B” you’d be better off skipping down the alphabet a lot further.

I think most of us betrayed spouses, perhaps not all of us, but most of us, should be able to see that after a while, when our heads start to clear. See that the decision making is flawed, distorted, immature, hurtful, foolish, and self-destructive.

“Plan Shit” is what I would call it, FUBAR!

FBH - Me - Betrayal in late 30's (now much older)
FWS - Her - Affair in late 30's (now much older )
4 Children
Her - Love of my life...still is.
Reconciled BUT!

posts: 1703   ·   registered: Jan. 31st, 2012   ·   location: USA
id 8552469
default

 LostOpportunities20 (original poster member #74401) posted at 6:18 AM on Friday, June 19th, 2020

standinghere

“Plan Sh*t” is what I would call it, FUBAR!

Fubar indeed!

--

Also - to everyone that has posted who I have not responded to - I have been reading everyone's responses several times and thinking over them - I'm not ignoring anyone - just a little overwhelmed emotionally at the moment.

BH (50s) WW (50s) EA 2008, EA 2009

Confessed the first, I caught her the second.

Not sure what to call it, but I guess we're in R.

posts: 229   ·   registered: May. 7th, 2020
id 8552535
default

ShutterHappy ( member #64318) posted at 1:13 PM on Friday, June 19th, 2020

LostOpportunities20,

I like your writing style

For a lot of WS, I don’t think there’s a plan at all. It’s unfortunate that you haven’t posted your story, that leaves us with speculations... I speculate that your WW was going through life, content, then someone gave her attention and she went for it.

One could argue that LOOK A SQUIRREL!!!...

Wait where was I? Oh, one could argue that the lack of plan and focus on the current relationship is one of the issue facing your WW.

If what you mean by "Plan A" Is who does she prefer? Well the answer is she preferred you at 10AM, preferred the AP at 3PM, and prefers you nw. She will prefer whatever meet her needs at the moment.

Now the question is, can she stop throwing herself at the first guy who gives her a compliment? Can she stick to have a long term meaningful relationship? Is she trustworthy now?

You are stuck in a loop because you love the person who hurt you and you don’t trust her.

I find that people here are very very good at distinguishing between genuine efforts and bullshit. If you tell more your story, they will help you.

IS THAT A SHINY BALL OVER THERE?

Me: BH
Divorced, remarried.
I plan on living forever. So far so good

posts: 1534   ·   registered: Jun. 30th, 2018   ·   location: In my house
id 8552590
default

Westway ( member #71747) posted at 2:27 PM on Friday, June 19th, 2020

You know OP, going back to the topic of attraction, I imagine your WW is probably way more attracted to you now that you have improved your self confidence.

A man's self-confidence is the sexiest trait for most women I think. The more your self esteem and self confidence grows, the more her attraction will grow. Whether her attraction means anything to you in the end is the question. I for one could care less if my STBXWW finds me attractive or not.

Me: 52;

XWW: 50 y.o. serial cheater

Married 22 years, Together 24
2 Daughters: aged 16 and 20
DDay: 9/20/19
Divorced 12/03/20.

posts: 1366   ·   registered: Oct. 3rd, 2019   ·   location: USA
id 8552607
default

 LostOpportunities20 (original poster member #74401) posted at 4:58 PM on Friday, June 19th, 2020

Westway

You know OP, going back to the topic of attraction, I imagine your WW is probably way more attracted to you now that you have improved your self confidence.

I have thought about this...I wouldn't say I ever lacked self confidence. I like to put it as I pursued validation from my wife and she refused to give it for numerous reasons.

But in all other aspects of life, I have always felt confident and I think projected it. I might even qualify myself as overconfident in some cases.

I can truly say my wife is the only person I have tried to be vulnerable with - like, I don't have to have my suit of armor here in the marriage - here there is respite from the world.

In my case, I know that is why it hurts as badly as it does. I opened myself as never before and received wounds from a place they should never intentionally come from - not just infidelity, but general behavior.

On the other hand, perhaps FWW saw my attempts for her validation as weakness, and now that I could care less, views it as strength and now wants to validate?

BassAckwards Paradoxes of biology and psychology!

[This message edited by LostOpportunities20 at 11:12 AM, June 19th (Friday)]

BH (50s) WW (50s) EA 2008, EA 2009

Confessed the first, I caught her the second.

Not sure what to call it, but I guess we're in R.

posts: 229   ·   registered: May. 7th, 2020
id 8552688
default

OwningItNow ( member #52288) posted at 5:30 PM on Friday, June 19th, 2020

On the other hand, perhaps FWW saw my attempts for her validation as weakness,

Why would we ever turn to another human being to validate our worth? Would you ever give that advice to someone?

Good decisions are good decisions. Proper behavior is proper behavior. As we move through life, we need to validate our own selves and our choices and find pride in our decisions whether people are unhappy or not; they have their own agenda and often don't see things the same. That's ok because we are thoughtfully living in a way that we find appropriate and healthy, so their approval and happiness are not necessary. (Some might say their disapproval can be selfish manipulation.)

Now if someone is harmed due to our choices, we need to consider if we made the right decision and possibly apologize and adjust our behavior. But to preempt someone's discomfort or make a certain choice to keep someone happy? That is called people pleasing (or Codependency sometimes). People pleasers are seen as weak as they repeatedly defer their needs to avoid displeasing someone. They are establishing a power structure that puts them and their feelings beneath someone else's. Does it empower a partner to cheat? It can be a piece of the puzzle, so it needs to end. We never want to live in a way that devalues our own feelings unless we want others to devalue our feelings, too.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 11:33 AM, June 19th (Friday)]

me: BS/WS h: WS/BS

Reject the rejector. Do not reject yourself.

posts: 5911   ·   registered: Mar. 16th, 2016   ·   location: Midwest
id 8552700
default

 LostOpportunities20 (original poster member #74401) posted at 5:36 PM on Friday, June 19th, 2020

Justsomelady

I posted updates to my signature and more detail to my profile.

I was actually crying the further along I typed. It wound up being a novel, so I revised it. But I am clearly not over any of this.

Putting it out gives me a soul crushing feel - like I felt reading American authors from the 1920s and 1930s - don't know why I made that connection .

ShutterHappy

FWW definitely has a short attention span. The new shiny thing always distracts her from what she already has to deal with. In fact, I came to believe after we married that's why she hooked up with me after her ex dumped her. She never dealt with that trauma. This is the case in many aspects of her life, not just our relationship. ICs have tried to work on it, but she runs when they dig deep.

BH (50s) WW (50s) EA 2008, EA 2009

Confessed the first, I caught her the second.

Not sure what to call it, but I guess we're in R.

posts: 229   ·   registered: May. 7th, 2020
id 8552702
default

 LostOpportunities20 (original poster member #74401) posted at 5:40 PM on Friday, June 19th, 2020

OwningItNow

Why would we ever turn to another human being to validate our worth? Would you ever give that advice to someone?

People pleasers are seen as weak as they repeatedly defer their needs to avoid displeasing someone

The thing is, she is the only person I have done this with. I felt a marriage is somewhere we should be able to be vulnerable and people please each other and guard each other. And I guess a healthy marriage is such a place.

Marriage with issues like mine? Dog eat dog. The best and most hateful lesson my wife has taught me - nice guys often finish last.

[This message edited by LostOpportunities20 at 12:19 PM, June 19th (Friday)]

BH (50s) WW (50s) EA 2008, EA 2009

Confessed the first, I caught her the second.

Not sure what to call it, but I guess we're in R.

posts: 229   ·   registered: May. 7th, 2020
id 8552703
default

PSTI ( member #53103) posted at 6:22 PM on Friday, June 19th, 2020

The things is, she is the only person I have done this with. I felt a marriage is somewhere we should be able to be vulnerable and people please each other and guard each other. And I guess a healthy marriage is such a place.

Marriage with issues like mine? Dog eat dog. The best and most hateful lesson my wife has taught me - nice guys often finish last.

This sounds like a really codependent idea to me. Of course you can be vulnerable, but I don't think a marriage is the only place one can be or should be vulnerable. As for the people pleasing- depends what you mean. It's nice to make your partner happy and to go out of your way to do so, but people pleasing implies you're doing so at your own expense, and it starts making that line pretty blurry there as to whether it's healthy.

Ultimately though, we all have the responsibility to set healthy boundaries for ourselves as individuals. A relationship is not a hive mind; it's still two individuals in a relationship. When you start thinking of it purely as a unit, you foster codependency. You take each other for granted and don't appreciate it. It becomes the expectation rather than a conscious choice.

Me: BW, my xH left me & DS after a 14 year marriage for the AP in 2014.

Happily remarried and in an open/polyamorous relationship. DH (married 5 years) & DBF (dating 4 years). Cohabitating happily all together!! <3

posts: 917   ·   registered: May. 6th, 2016
id 8552716
default

 LostOpportunities20 (original poster member #74401) posted at 7:14 PM on Friday, June 19th, 2020

PSTI

This sounds like a really codependent idea to me. Of course you can be vulnerable, but I don't think a marriage is the only place one can be or should be vulnerable. As for the people pleasing- depends what you mean. It's nice to make your partner happy and to go out of your way to do so, but people pleasing implies you're doing so at your own expense, and it starts making that line pretty blurry there as to whether it's healthy.

In my case, it certainly became co-dependence - "excessive reliance on other people for approval and a sense of identity."

I wouldn't say I enabled FWWs behavior actively - but certainly passively. My way of dealing with her was gentle nudging - where my mode of operation with my friends, coworkers and direct reports could go into a swift kick in the butt if I felt they needed it.

But with FWW - gentle...gentle...gentle.... OUCH! this rose has thorns and a yellow jacket or two hiding. WAAAHHHH! My feelings are hurt - and then right back into the cycle hoping it would change THIS time around.

But I still stand by this - I shouldn't have to worry about this in a healthy marriage.

I don't mean to project on you - but do you think that your view might be based on the scars from being burned as opposed to it being the way a healthy intimate marriage should be (not talking about regular relationships outside of the marriage)? If I can't be vulnerable and perhaps a bit needy with my spouse, what the hell is the point of marriage beyond practical matters? Shouldn't it be my safe place? I think here of the saying by Donne - "No man is an island".

On the other hand, I'm so jaded now with the "nice guys finish last" lesson that I almost feel no relationship is worth the risk of that kind of vulnerability. Always on guard? Makes me tired just thinking about it...and yet, do I have a choice?

EDIT to PSTI - never mind my "projection" - I think I misread what you were saying. I agree healthy boundaries are a must in all relationships.

[This message edited by LostOpportunities20 at 1:34 PM, June 19th (Friday)]

BH (50s) WW (50s) EA 2008, EA 2009

Confessed the first, I caught her the second.

Not sure what to call it, but I guess we're in R.

posts: 229   ·   registered: May. 7th, 2020
id 8552730
default

ShutterHappy ( member #64318) posted at 7:52 PM on Friday, June 19th, 2020

I came to believe after we married that's why she hooked up with me after her ex dumped her.

If she hooked up with you right after her ex dumped her, I would qualify this as a red flag. Sounds like monkey branching.

So the question is not whether you are plan A right now on June 19, it’s not whether she finds you more attractive that the OM right at this fleeting moment, but rather if she can address her issues enough for you to feel safe for the next 40 years.

Do you feel safe staying with her?

Me: BH
Divorced, remarried.
I plan on living forever. So far so good

posts: 1534   ·   registered: Jun. 30th, 2018   ·   location: In my house
id 8552738
default

Westway ( member #71747) posted at 7:59 PM on Friday, June 19th, 2020

If I can't be vulnerable and perhaps a bit needy with my spouse, what the hell is the point of marriage beyond practical matters?

I agree. How can you have true intimacy in a marriage without allowing yourself to be vulnerable to your spouse? I think in your case the vulnerability was one-sided in your marriage. You attempted to be vulnerable with her and she took advantage of it. Further proof she may not be a good candidate for R.

[This message edited by Westway at 1:59 PM, June 19th (Friday)]

Me: 52;

XWW: 50 y.o. serial cheater

Married 22 years, Together 24
2 Daughters: aged 16 and 20
DDay: 9/20/19
Divorced 12/03/20.

posts: 1366   ·   registered: Oct. 3rd, 2019   ·   location: USA
id 8552742
default

Westway ( member #71747) posted at 8:02 PM on Friday, June 19th, 2020

When you start thinking of it purely as a unit, you foster codependency.

That's pretty jaded. I believe all humans are codependent to a degree. it is when codependency is allowed to become mutually self destructive that things go haywire.

Codependency in its negative form is really a form of selfishness. I believe you can have two people who become a unit when they lack selfishness and embrace selflessness with each other.

Me: 52;

XWW: 50 y.o. serial cheater

Married 22 years, Together 24
2 Daughters: aged 16 and 20
DDay: 9/20/19
Divorced 12/03/20.

posts: 1366   ·   registered: Oct. 3rd, 2019   ·   location: USA
id 8552744
default

 LostOpportunities20 (original poster member #74401) posted at 8:08 PM on Friday, June 19th, 2020

ShutterHappy

If she hooked up with you right after her ex dumped her, I would qualify this as a red flag. Sounds like monkey branching.

So the question is not whether you are plan A right now on June 19, it’s not whether she finds you more attractive that the OM right at this fleeting moment, but rather if she can address her issues enough for you to feel safe for the next 40 years.

Do you feel safe staying with her?

We got together about a year after her ex dumped her. He made it a clean break. In fact I remember he and I (we knew each other from before FWW entered either of our lives) having coffee one day and him mentioning that he was cutting it off with his fiance (my future FWW) because he could not deal with the toxicity of the future MIL. He said "No love is worth bringing that ***** into my and my childrens' lives"

I didn't know at the time he was talking about the woman that would eventually become my FWW and wouldn't know until FWW and I were some months into our new relationship.

I feel safe with her ONLY from the stand point that she seems "defeated" and "has to settle" and so has decided to play "nice" - not her words, but my jaded view of her intentions.

As this thread has been going along, it is clearer that my issues are with trust and the realization that she has not fixed her issues and can still hurt me if the dragon rises again.

BH (50s) WW (50s) EA 2008, EA 2009

Confessed the first, I caught her the second.

Not sure what to call it, but I guess we're in R.

posts: 229   ·   registered: May. 7th, 2020
id 8552746
default

 LostOpportunities20 (original poster member #74401) posted at 8:16 PM on Friday, June 19th, 2020

Westway

Further proof she may not be a good candidate for R.

The mind tells me she is not and has never been a good candidate for R.

The same mind tells me that I would be trading the prison of a hurtful FWW for the prison of financial difficulties and kids still suffering and FWW always a part of life because of the kids.

My heart (and the other "brain" that makes men make all kinds of blunders) tells me - "she was terrible to you, but she really does appear to be trying to cherish you now, regardless of context or how we got there..."

And yet...I find it hard to trust...not enough to move on, but enough to be wary...it makes me tired.

I am tired of being tired.

[This message edited by LostOpportunities20 at 2:18 PM, June 19th (Friday)]

BH (50s) WW (50s) EA 2008, EA 2009

Confessed the first, I caught her the second.

Not sure what to call it, but I guess we're in R.

posts: 229   ·   registered: May. 7th, 2020
id 8552747
default

Butforthegrace ( member #63264) posted at 8:19 PM on Friday, June 19th, 2020

The mind tells me she is not and has never been a good candidate for R.

The same mind tells me that I would be trading the prison of a hurtful FWW for the prison of financial difficulties and kids still suffering and FWW always a part of life because of the kids.

The Devil you know versus the Devil you don't know. There is some wisdom in that.

"The wicked man flees when no one chases."

posts: 4184   ·   registered: Mar. 31st, 2018   ·   location: Midwest
id 8552748
default

ShutterHappy ( member #64318) posted at 8:52 PM on Friday, June 19th, 2020

There are no good outcome with infidelity, only less bad outcomes. The posters here will try to help you find the less bad outcome

Me: BH
Divorced, remarried.
I plan on living forever. So far so good

posts: 1534   ·   registered: Jun. 30th, 2018   ·   location: In my house
id 8552763
default

sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 11:31 PM on Friday, June 19th, 2020

WRT telling your story, I recommend putting it in your profile or journal. If you put it in a thread, the thread will eventually get lost.

I can understand the attraction of telling the story and losing it, but I think you'll get more benefit from having it around. smile

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
d-day - 12/22/2010 Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 31803   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8552815
This Topic is Archived
Cookies on SurvivingInfidelity.com®

SurvivingInfidelity.com® uses cookies to enhance your visit to our website. This is a requirement for participants to login, post and use other features. Visitors may opt out, but the website will be less functional for you.

v.1.001.20260402b 2002-2026 SurvivingInfidelity.com® All Rights Reserved. • Privacy Policy