SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Still can't sleep, I guess I will have to get medicated went to bed at 10, it took me about an hour to fall asleep but at 1:41 i was awake. my brain jut won't stop thinking. imagining and feeling sad really sad. it sucks.

In terms of your daughter's advice to wait two months... look up the word "condonation" in association with your state's divorce laws to find out if that two months will cost you

I'm aware of it and would check again with the lawyer, I'm really not insisting on filing an at-fault based on adultery, I really don't care, I was just asking him how a 12 months separation could be avoided and that was one of the solutions. If I'm divorcing I rather not wait that long, that's why the best way for me is a no-fault consensual absolute Divorce the whole process would take 3 to 4 months if we agree on assets , living arrangement child support and stuff like that.

In reference to her other advice about talking to her mother, I think it largely depends on what you're hoping to achieve. If you're looking for R, certainly it would be required at some point to open that door. But if you're looking for D, I'd tell her to help herself to my email address and keep a nice, fat paper trail of whatever admissions she makes.

I know I'm slaking here, i gotta make my mind. It is weird when I think about it I'm convinced D is what I need to do but I don't know why I'm hesitant. part of it is fear.

I think what your daughter is asking from you is actually good sound advice. Which is to basically take a little more time to make your decision weather or not to divorce your wife.

yes , this is exactly what she she said.

i have a question btw i did not read other memebers replies.

she said that you never wanted things that she did with OM.

is it true??

I really don't know what she was exactly talking about, I liked having sex with her for sure, even before she lost weight and changed her hair style. as a matter of fact i actually liked the old her better, I prefer the extra pounds on her curves. i also liked her old hair style. I never cared much for sexy lingerie never bought them for her maybe that's what she was talking about. i guess I will have to ask her directly to know.

because in your first you post you wrote about her naked pictures for OM and she never let you did it.

did you talk about this with her that you did wanted this???

well. way back in 2001 we took a picture of us on bed kissing, this was before the digital age, it was a camera with a film that we had to develop and print out the pictures. that photo didn't show our whole buddies just upper chests and our faces, she was mad because she didn't want anyone to see that specially our kids(they were 5 and 1)and burnt it. so i know she didn't like that, BTW her explanation to that picture he took of her is that she wasn't aware at first he was gonna take it and asked him to delete it but never did.

She is still in a little bit fog where she thinks that OM appreciated her blah blah

Oh she is,in her email she answered all the points I mentioned in my email except one subject she avoided, which is the OM had at least 3 other affairs.I was looking forward to see what she would think about that but she didn't write a word about it.

Your daughter sounds like a level headed young woman and you'r lucky to have her there for you.

Just wondered if she knew about the boiler incident

yes she does know, she attended a meeting with my wife's mom and sisters 2 weeks ago, and I brought it up then.

thank you , she is a good girl, very independent working hard and making good money already she's only 24 but very mature young lady.

[This message edited by AHGuy at 5:40 AM, July 30th (Thursday)]

Your daughter and your son will probably need therapy after all this.

It's not contradictory (and mentally healthy) to love and forgive - but divorce. You have an obligation to your kids and to yourself to live the best version of your life.

I experienced the same problem with sleeping (waking up 3 hours later wide awake). I solved that problem by taking a half dose of lorazepam (anti anxiety) together with the sleeping pill. And slept all night.

That's the only time I needed the lorazepam (to stay asleep all night) and I think a good night's sleep saved me.

I'm wondering way you find it so difficult to tell your wife that you see you didn't give her the support she wished for. She has told you that she sees what you did for her and your marriage and she was only seeing herself and didn't acknowledge all that you were doing. To some it may seem that such and acknowledgement would make you appear weak. I don't think so. Maybe you don't tell her because it's your way or the highway. I've been on SI a few years. (I actually started reading because I retired and had lots of time to do anything I wanted) I find that no matter what a WS says or admits too, there are going to be a vast majority that disagree with everything they say. If a WS wrote an admission in blood and then committed suicide there are those who would say the WS was just trying to make the BS feel guilty and trying to manipulate the BS. And, no matter what a BS decides many are not going to agree with their decision. That's because everyone is making judgements influenced by their own past situation. Try to take that in consideration when reading these posts, even mine.

You could decide to reconcile and live a long and happy life or a completely miserable one. You could divorce, sell everything, divide everything up, part ways and try to begin again. No matter what you do it is not going to affect anyone who gave you advice. In a year from now they will be advising someone else on their situation and have no thought of you. What you decide is not going to affect me, or any of them, in the least. A year from now I may be clipping my rose bushes or cleaning my guns and suddenly wonder what ever happened to AHguy. The only thing that will really matter is what you want, what you decide and living with those wants and decisions. I have read so many times, "I just can't live with that". Believe me there are a lot of things you can live with if it means doing something for those you love and having a peaceful life. Been there, done that. Remember, I have my own list. I will be first in line to tell you to run far and fast if your life, as of now, will never change. You and her are the only ones that can change things and YOU are the only one who has to make a decision. Neither will have any affect on anyone, except you, who is on this forum. I do wish you well.

Anoldlion, Thank you very much for your posts. I appreciate your point of view. let me put things in perspective. the complaining didn't start till the last 5 or 6 years but it came with a sudden change in her behavior a complete 180 of her character. I took it as midlife crisis we all did including her sisters and friends, before that our life was normal,our marriage was very good or at least that's what I thought, we were both working long hours not just me, she suddenly wanted to go out with her friends and go to movies and ball games, she suddenly changed her life style and to her I was an old school. yes she wasn't happy and complained that's true, I wasn't happy either but I never complain. I remember talking to her sisters about that and we all agreed that her being in her 40s affected her specially when our daughter left the house.

Could a couples counseling helped us then? I don't know, maybe or maybe not. The only thing I regret is not reading the writing on the wall. she started by life style changes, then resenting me then ignoring me then replacing me. and I stayed blind. I took seeing clear evidence for me to believe that my wife was cheating. i can never understand why I was so blind.

that bring us to today, trust me Anoldlion, I might be hardheaded, but I won't have any problem admitting my faults and owning them like a man should be.

I experienced the same problem with sleeping (waking up 3 hours later wide awake). I solved that problem by taking a half dose of lorazepam (anti anxiety) together with the sleeping pill. And slept all night.

That's the only time I needed the lorazepam (to stay asleep all night) and I think a good night's sleep saved me.

I hate medication, but I'm gonna need something like this, I gotta sleep can't be doing this everynight. am assuming this a prescribed medicine , correct?

I fully understand your position AH. But would it hurt your 180 or grey rock position, if you told your WW some of the above? Not every thing in great detail, but just the main points to show that there is some communication being tried on your part. No not rug sweeping, or blind R. Just a little talk. Written out so not to go off angry or side tracked.

One day at a time.

Buffer

I fully understand your position AH. But would it hurt your 180 or grey rock position, if you told your WW some of the above? Not every thing in great detail, but just the main points to show that there is some communication being tried on your part. No not rug sweeping, or blind R. Just a little talk. Written out so not to go off angry or side tracked.

One day at a time.

Buffer

I need a plan for sure. I'm thinking about giving her a list of conditions I need established before i can commit to this 2 months grace period, conditions like an initial separation agreement in place, a full time line of her A.

To file for D right now I will have to either convince her to negotiate the terms of a consensual no-fault or hire a lawyer and just file. to do that I will have to retain him and pay $5000 to do that. then she would have to retain one too. I don't want a war if we D that money is better spent in something else.

so my plan for now is to give it till the end of September,

[This message edited by AHGuy at 6:25 AM, July 30th (Thursday)]

I think that money spent on a retainer for a good lawyer is money very well spent. She is counting on your soft heart and love for her giving her more time to get herself out of all of this.

Filing for d snaps her into reality and allows you to see how she is *really* going to behave when she knows her house of cards is truly falling.

My divorce attorney was the money I most grudgingly spent in my life, but in hind-sight, it was the best money I ever spent. A couple of thousands then saved me hundreds of thousand down the line.

ETA:

He got me my house free and clear, offset against expenses I have already covered on my ex-POS wife's behalf. He also got spousal support totally squashed.

I paid premium for the best, meanest shark I could find, and took his advice. I let him handle everything and withdrew from the process as much as possible.

Not only did he protect my finances, he took a lot of the weight off my shoulders in terms of decisions I was hesitant to make and ugly negotiations where I just had to rubber stamp his actions, based on his experience.

Believe me, once you trust your lawyer and can leave the heavy lifting in his hands, you'll even sleep better.

[This message edited by DictumVeritas at 6:52 AM, July 30th (Thursday)]

AH,

You are doing very well for only being two weeks from D-day. If you haven't purchased a VAR (voice activated recorder) then you need to take care of that today. You have not really reached the anger phase yet and she will start to lose her mind when she realizes her plan is not working. Out of nowhere the police will appear and you learn a false DV has been filed giving her the upper hand in the outcome.

Our stories are very similar, even down to the jesus letter. My WW was in full damage control telling all friends and family how mean, difficult and uncaring I had been throughout the marriage. When I emerged from the fog (a few weeks after dday) and realized what she was doing, I started gathering evidence, called a lawyer, and took control with harsh demands (quit job, timeline, etc).

At that point I witnessed the emergence of evil from this person that I thought I knew. It was so intense that friends and family started calling, telling to get the kids and leave. She spent the next 2 weeks in the psych ward.

Be safe

AH

There is a lot of talk here about R or D. How can you possibly make that decision when there are so many things you do not know FOR SURE. You question how you were so blind. You were not blind, you were in denial.

So other than what OBS provided you initially, here is what you do not know and have NOT even asked

(1) you have not flat out looked her in the eye and asked if she has seen him since D Day.

(2) you have not asked what she has told her girlfriend in the office who would unless told otherwise gladly put your wife in touch with OM again. What exactly has she said to girlfriend since D Day

(3) she has told you she will turn over all passwords etc. HAS SHE DONE IT?????

(4) you have not gotten specifics on what sex she is talking about that she gave to him. You might or might not want to hear it but if you need to know it better be before you make a decision

(5) you have not talked to OBS again to find out exactly where he is with his wife and what she is doing. That is important because what stops affairs is when WS is fighting to save their marriage. So far not the case here.

(6) you have not asked how many of Oms other friends knew. You can bet Om took her to places with them.Do not be surprised if one of them does not take a run at your wife.

(7) you have not put a VAR in her car, despite advice that that will in a short time confirm who she is talking to and what she is saying

(80 you have not mentioned a polygraph test that will do more to let you know if she is being truthful than any one thing you can do.

The list can go on, but for everything above the source of answers is solely the woman who lied to you thousands of times the past few years.

So how the hell do you make any firm decision with even the holes above is beyond me.

If you file for divorce, it WILL do a couple of things

(1) Force you wife to make some uncomfortable decisions WITHOUT you caving to her demands in her communications. She will have to put her ass on the line for months to try to win you back

(2) put you entirely in control and off the hook to win her back, and you will find out if she actually saw an attorney

She will then have clear choices to either

(a) bust her ass to convince you to give her a chance

(b) tell you she can't accept no concessions on your part to what she demanded

(c) resume affair

No one on this forum can predict with certainty what she will do, but neither can you based on the lack of specifics you are operating under and no way to confirm or verify anything.

Your plan is to give it till the end of September.

Spend this time in an effort to convince her to negotiate the terms of a consensual no-fault. You should expect to make little or no progress in this effort because this does not benefit your wife. She will delay and resist.

Your wife is in survival mode. She blames you for all of her poor decisions. There is no remorse. She is sorry she got caught, nothing more. Frankly you have very little to save. She gave herself completely to another man for 2 years. If the AP committed himself to your wife she would have left you for him without a second thought.

You can certainly give her a list of conditions for her to commit to during this 2 month grace period. She will waste all of that time challenging your conditions, trying to turn the tables/blame on you. You will also be less than satisfied with the time line of her affair. That is assuming she ever bothers to complete it and submit it to you. How do you plan to verify the time line or will you take her word for it?

Hire a lawyer and just file. The ugliest option for you in the short term. You may have heard this joke - why are divorces so expensive? Because they are worth it. There is real truth in this humor. That was my own experience. It was worth every penny to be rid of a woman that betrayed me in every way that she could. You will truly learn who you have been married to when you divorce.

The only person to benefit from a delayed decision will be your wayward wife. She is also the only beneficiary of a reconciliation. She threw away your marriage 2 years ago with the intent she would trade up to a millionaire husband. She needs a safety net (you) and time to build the narrative that she tried her best but it didn't work out. Her dream and desire for a millionaire husband is not dead, merely delayed. As for the AP he has had 3 other affairs before your wife came along. Very doubtful he will make her dream come true but he will play on her desire to get what he wants.

If you take the time to search this forum and others you will find that many betrayed spouses end up regretting giving the gift of reconciliation to their wayward spouse. You will not find many if any betrayed spouses that regretted divorcing their wayward spouse. They just regretted that they didn't do it sooner instead of offering reconciliation.

but it came with a sudden change in her behavior a complete 180 of her character. I took it as midlife crisis we all did including her sisters and friends, before that our life was normal,our marriage was very good or at least that's what I thought, we were both working long hours not just me, she suddenly wanted to go out with her friends and go to movies and ball games, she suddenly changed her life style and to her I was an old school.

When somebody posts something like this, it often means an affair.

You should ask her if she had another affair before the one you know.

The fact that she didn’t reply about the OM other affairs is a big problem. She might not believe you and might still think the OM is a great guy and she has the choice between a husband and a great BF.

You need to look at her in the eyes and ask her what are her feelings towards the OM.

TLDR for this whole thread can be summarized as follows:

1. You have been a loyal, steady and hardworking husband throughout a long marriage and have wonderful, beautiful children who support you and love you. Even your adulterous wife lauds the support you have always provided to her.

2. Your wife is a materialist and shallow narcissist who likes the shield of being a “good Christian” and whose idea of Christian discipleship extends about as far as maudlin cliches that don’t mean much.

3. More than half a decade ago her innate narcissism and materialism began surfacing (and there’s a strong likelihood that she’s had affairs before now). At midlife her ability to keep her true self hidden behind a costume and mask had worn down and the real woman you’ve been married to all along emerged. This is WHO SHE IS.

4. She divorced you two years ago for another man - a rich man, because she’s a materialist. She gave her loyalty to him. She gave her sexuality to him in degrading ways. She denied it to you. One more time: This is WHO SHE IS.

5. She is angry at you and sorry she got caught. It spoils her party. Now, as she herself said, she’s trying to “save face” meaning put the mask back on so her true self isn’t exposed to the world. Nothing more.

6. You didn’t do anything to deserve this no matter how many posters here try to subtly or not-so-subtly shift blame on to you.

7. Filing for divorce gives you power and your life back. Delaying it continues to give power to a woman who has demonstrated her disregard and contempt for you and spends her time writing despicable non-apologies to you that are transparently navel gazing tripe.

8. If you “reconcile” you will be doing so with an inherently shallow materialistic and narcissistic woman (see all points above) who showed her true face 6 years ago and who thinks nothing of inviting her husband to act as a servant to prepare her f*ck pad for her lover.

. the complaining didn't start till the last 5 or 6 years but it came with a sudden change in her behavior a complete 180 of her character. I took it as midlife crisis we all did including her sisters and friends, before that our life was normal,our marriage was very good or at least that's what I thought,

Yeah but, she enjoyed that comfortable lifestyle all your hours of hard work and sacrifice were providing right? Yeah, see that is always the piece of the puzzle that women like her leave out. Did you press her on that point? You are out there busting your ass 70+ hours a week in nasty basements and hot, dusty attics, fixing and installing AC units and boilers and such, while she's out getting her kicks playing hide the sausage with rich boy.

To hell with her and the ho-locomotive she rode in on.

Could a couples counseling helped us then? I don't know, maybe or maybe not. The only thing I regret is not reading the writing on the wall. she started by life style changes, then resenting me then ignoring me then replacing me. and I stayed blind. I took seeing clear evidence for me to believe that my wife was cheating. i can never understand why I was so blind.

At that point in the game, nothing you could have done, no amount of counseling, would have stopped her from doing what she planned to do. I think Thumos has it right: she's a materialistic narcissist. You can't fix that.

AH

There is not a step by step formula to survive infidelity. You Will find guidance from other members opiniones bases on their own experince.

You must find you own Path, D or R is totally Up to you!

Take the advice here with a grain of salt, as there is todo much pain and anger in JFO treads. Take just what is aligned with what you think and feel.

But keep your eyes open and dont disdain the experience of others.

BTW

I think is a great step forward to have a time frame and ti start communicating with her. She is the mother if your kids, and sooner ir later, you Will need to have a cordial relation with her

[This message edited by Mrhealed at 8:53 AM, July 30th (Thursday)]

Yes the meds I used were by prescription (and not something you want to use long term).

I didn't want to become reliant on sleeping pills or loranzepam anti anxiety meds so I limited it to one week.

After the first week I used just a sleeping pill as needed (maybe once every two weeks for a couple of nights at most) - less and less as time passed. After the first week I didn't wake up after 3 hours (at least not every night).

My experience with the loranzepam (5mg which is a low dose) is that it stopped the mood swings and I stopped 'thinking' about it. There was no high feeling or foggy thinking. And after a week I didn't need it.

You must find you own Path, D or R is totally Up to you!

Correct. My recommendation (and others as well who have chimed in) to file for D is to put you in the right position, and get you out of an infidelity situation. Then you can better decide what to do and you’ll have much more clarity.

There is not a “formula” for dealing with adultery (insofar as there is not a panacea) but there are prerequisites for dealing with it, If you will. There are many, many commonalities in most infidelity situations — so very common that it’s routine to recommend a series of initial steps and refer to the “cheater’s handbook” and so on. Adulterers tend to carry out a nauseatingly repetitive set of behaviors and say the same trite lines of dialogue word for word over and over — almost as if reciting from a script. Stick around for a bit and you’ll see that. It’s eerie.

This is why people were so rapidly able to break down your WW’s rather trite and thin letter. We’ve seen it before, including in our own lives in three dimensional reality. Our empirical real world experience informs us and we call it as we see it, without abstraction, without obfuscation, without quarter.

The reason this is so is because human nature binds us all together. We’re all unique individuals but our life experiences share many common threads and patterns that can be discerned and approached with models that do work.

But we’re all anonymous keyboard warriors here. Only you know your own situation.

If your wife, as is strongly suggested by her words and deeds for more than half a decade, is inherently materialistic and narcissistic in her character, then this will be very tough to root out — even with intense therapy. No one is doing you or anyone else dealing with a similar situation any favors by sugarcoating this or tiptoeing around it with elisions and equivocations.

As for anger: I don’t believe in relativism. Nor do I find equivocations useful. Yes I’m angry on your behalf, AH. We’re about the same age. You deserve better. Anger is not wrong in such situations. It is not a cover for other emotions (incidentally I’ve yet to see any scientific proof for this therapeutic bromide that is so blithely tossed around when betrayed spouses feel angry). God is angry when he sees injustice and you and I both believe we were made in His image.

I don’t want to see a single other betrayed husband end up in the same painful limbo I’ve landed in the last few years. I’m pretty much an open book about that, and I won’t stop.

Your integrity and stability shine thru in every word you write. Unfortunately I must say the opposite about your wife, given the empirical evidence we have before us. Not just from what you report about her but in her own words by her own hand from her own mind. Anyone who pretends otherwise is papering over something very ugly indeed.

I use very straightforward language to describe truths, truths your wife has now shared both through her actions and her own words, spoken and written.

Just as with your words, her character and substance are not hard to discern.

I hope only the best for you as you navigate this trying time.

[This message edited by Thumos at 9:26 AM, July 30th (Thursday)]