SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

However, a WS that claims to be a FWS can always take their behavior more underground.

Good point, shellofme.

It takes a lot of data to know if one's WS is truly a former WS, and one can't really know anyway.

OTOH, it's pretty much conclusive that a WS who objects to being VARed is still in a wayward mindset....

I wish I had written something like: If the WS doesn't put the VAR back, the WS has just raised a big red flag.

Confronted in the sense that he is very upset. Said I crossed a line, it's illegal, etc. He asked if I was going to apologize and I said no and he said this isn't going to work then.

I would just go straight to a lawyer and file with that response. You don’t have anything to work with and do not apologize. Take your power back.

Whatslove

Sorry you are in such a situation - I just read one of your other threads.

Cheaters using 'business' accounts to cheat is common (ask me how I know) and his response to both finding your VAR and answering his question on how you found out (mistake!) and his latest retort regarding the VAR - no regrets, no remorse on his part.

I think best you plot your course onto a path separate from him.

From the way he is acting (as you relate) I would also hazard a guess he will lose interest in being a father present in the life of his yours and his child. (Apologies for the downer)

It is what I call a gut feeling.

When life happens as you are experiencing - we all wish we had a magic seance with a fortune teller before we started a relationship.

He asked if I was going to apologize and I said no and he said this isn't going to work then.

He should be apologizing every day.

Look him in the face and say exactly that. Mention he hurt you and you have been gracious enough to take him back. He should see this and it should make him SAD not mad that he has broken the trust this badly.

1 of 2 ways to take back the power. Choose or both.

1. Go to the lawyer and get the calculations for divorce figured out. Let him see them and see if he starts trying to work the trust issues out.

2. Look him straight in the eye, drop the VAR in his lap. State he has X days to provide hard proof he isn't cheating. That you were taking ownership of something he should be owning during reconciliation. That you will be assuming he is cheating until he can without a doubt prove he isn't. Get a whiteboard in your bedroom where you high light each of the times he could be cheating. Just like BS get tired of trying to police, this will wear down the WS trying to prove their innocence.

Take back the power during this reconciliation. He should be trying to make up for his mistakes, not trying to hide things and keep his privacy. This is a common problem for WS who aren't trying to reconcile, but instead are white knuckling through rugsweeping.

If I may, I'd like to provide a response from a WS point of view.

Confronted in the sense that he is very upset. Said I crossed a line, it's illegal, etc.

BS using VAR is not "cross the line", we WS had already "crossed the line" in the first place with the A.

A WS who truly wants to reconcile should do everything possible to rebuild trust with our BS.

I want to be totally transparent with my BS so I gave her access to my phone, all my accounts, I installed GPS tracking so she can see where I go, how long I've been at every location, with full history. And if she wants to put VAR everywhere, that is totally fine with me because I am committed to R and I have nothing to hide anymore.

If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to be concerned with. The most important thing in R I believe is for the BS to feel safe again, so VAR or any other monitoring devices are welcome.

Just my 2 cents.

My WW said I had invaded her privacy by reading her journal to discover her long term PA. I feel very lucky in this respect and I will explain why. I was booking some free travel using frequent flyer miles and I noticed an itinerary to a city we have never visited nor every would visit. I said nothing at the time and waited until the following week to fully investigate. I was able to prove beyond doubt it was my WW that had made this trip.

My WW was off on business the following week, so I took it upon my self to read every page of her personal journals. Every single detail of the PA was documented. I said I was lucky above because I am one of the very few who knows most every detail of the sordid affair. My WW was outraged and I just looked at her and said, "I have ample proof of your long term affair ... Are you certain this is the position you want to take?"

The next morning, she immediately destroyed all her journals and started a new journal stating that the destruction was sad but necessary. It took her 6 months to reach any measure of remorse.

OP: Just say to your WH: "You need to prove you are trustworthy, and that cannot be done with your consent."

No WS can take any offence from any form of tracking. I agree 100% that when we broke our BS heart we lost any right to a private life.

BS has access to my email, my phone, all social media and every app on my phone. My car has a journey tracker which shows every journey I take. We do check these things together and she checks in her own time too.

I don’t know if there is any other software or hardware being used and I am not concerned if there is. Anything that makes BS feel comfortable in our relationship is great.

First of all I wouldn’t worry too much about the legal consequences. Although probably illegal the laws are mainly there regarding the usage of the recordings. As in if you shared a recording with a third party, used it for financial gain, tried to use it to intimidate WH or used it in court. Chances are he could sue you as a civil matter, but then he needs to prove real emotional and/or financial cost and that’s not going to happen. Rome wasn’t built every day

The real issue IMHO is one that I think many of us ignore.

I think we forget what we are fighting for and what is at stake.

I have gone back trough most of your posts. A red thread in all of them is him not acknowledging the damage done. He talks about tightening security (as in to prevent getting caught again), he talks about lack of sex (with a finger pointing at you) as the reason for his need to cheat, he promises transparency yet complains about it’s enforcement, he stalls and lies in therapy…

He isn’t fighting for this relationship. He’s fighting to be “right” – to win the argument. He’s fighting so that the conclusion will be “Yeah, well… a ONS might not be the best thing, but it’s understandable and acceptable because he wasn’t getting any at home”. He’s fighting so that you let that baby have a soiled diaper crying in the corner so he can have his sexual ways with you – and you better enjoy it and participate otherwise it’s OK he goes to the next singles bar.

In reconciliation there can’t be a him-winner or a her-winner. It’s either the relationship wins, or the relationship loses. The “win” is because you both win in the relationship – as a couple.

This is why I say people don’t realize what is at stake.

He thinks this is about you two splitting or him getting his way. It’s HIM

Hes not trying to win reconciliation, but to win the argument.

If your wayward can’t accept and understand the use of covert observation, then that are not likely R material as they don’t really “get it” no matter what they might say.