SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I think blah may have nailed it. Your WW may be sticking around until YOU have had enough so that when you finally D, she can tell everyone you tried R, but it just didn't work. Marriage is hard, and you just weren't compatible. Had nothing to do with any A.

My WW was similar. She didn't want to be the bad guy. However, she just found new AP's until I had enough. Yours is faithful for now. Will it last? If you're not in love, then likely not.

What you describe now is not a healthy M. If your WW isn't working hard to fix her issues, then you shouldn't waste any more time trying to drag her through R. YOU can't fix her, and YOU didn't break the M.

I don't think she's really trying to fix the marriage. I think she just wanted to get her foot back in the door so it' wouldn't look like she abandoned her kids. It sounds like she's just going through the motions with you and I wouldn't be surprised if she just put OM on hold. She doesn't sound very committed to fixing the marriage... she's going to grin and bare it but not emotional invest herself. She's hoping you will eventually forgo the physical stuff.

Has she read any books on what she did to you or to her family? How to help your spouse heal?

It just seems like she's back because she didn't want a divorce not because she wanted to fix the marriage.

WW has put me and my kids thru Hell over the last year.

So do you think she is willing to go through a fraction of the Hell she put her husband and kids through to reconcile? Is she all in, or is she only home because the alcoholic douchebag was cheating on her and the money was running out? If she’s telling you ILYBINILWY then she’s not ready.

Are you in love with her? Not the woman you married, the one in front of you right now. I doubt it, and I wouldn’t hesitate to let her know that. The woman she’s been for the past year + is pretty goddamn unlovable. Don’t be afraid of pushing her away. As I said on your other thread, if she’s going to quit it will save you a lot of time and (more) heartbreak if she does it now.

I don't understand how a person who is sexually or emotionally numb can be a good candidate for R.

For R to work, both partners need to want the M very much.

Her numbness is hers. She has her feelings; they don't have her. She chooses whether or not to be in love with you.

What kind of M do you want? Do you realistically think you can have that with her? As she is now, that is, because you can't change her?

Your posts say you're selling yourself out. Your posts say you're stifling yourself. You deserve to treat yourself a lot better than that.

I didn't read the other responses, I am short on time right now.

I am a WW, and I was numb too. I had emotional exhaustion. I was numb both to the good and bad and suffered from sexual dysfunction from before the affair to about 10 months afterwards. It's definitely a thing.

I don't understand how a person who is sexually or emotionally numb can be a good candidate for R.

I think numb is the state right above angry.

So both partners will start off sad. Either dad because of shame (WS) or sad because they feel rejected by their spouse(BS).

Then they get angry. This is where they stand up and take some kind of action. For a WS, this is when they get the divorce paperwork and try to get their feet moving. For the BS, it is when they file for divorce or start taking steps to get out of infidelity.

Then comes the Numb.

For a WS it would be when they want to push away the shame, sadness, and anger because they realize, they deserve it. This is self inflicted and they are going numb to plod forward until they can get far enough away to start to fix things.

For a BS, the numb is when we hit that plane of lethal flatness or when we burn out of sadness and anger. We just go numb. We are so tired of feeling, we just stop. It is like standing in really cold weather. At some point, you realize complaining or trying to fight it is pointless.

So, for her numb, you need to just step back. She is waiting to see you do something to save her. Don't save her. Don't forget what she did. Just quietly keep plodding along and she will either pick herself up and follow or she will sit down and wait for you to come back and save her. She was strong enough to walk away, she should be strong enough to walk towards you. Like the divorce papers, she needs to keep being shocked into action. She doesn't want to face what she has done. I bet she told her OM that you are divorcing her and asked to move in. He probably told her they are dating, it is just sex. Then suddenly she realizes this guy is a POS so now she sees everything she will lose. Keep protecting yourself and ignore her activities until she gets even close to where you expect a wife to be. If numb isn't good enough for you, then expect better. If you show her you won't tolerate her bullsh1t, she will stop trying to get you to tolerate it. People will expect they can treat you how you think they should treat you. If this isn't enough, use your new skills from here and say exactly that. Then stop sleeping with her and tell her when she is ready to make this something enjoyable, you may or may not be there. Keep the clock ticking on that divorce too. I hope you didn't stop it.

You can be reconciling while the divorce clock is ticking.

Thanks all, it helps to hear that I am not alone in this and that the intimacy issues are likely all with her. I have been starving for breadcrumbs for so long that I have been greedily taking what she has been offering.

You all know how devastating this is to your self-esteem. Mine was already really low before the A for a bunch of reasons (grew up as the fat kid being bullied, toxic NARC mother, etc.). None of these are excuses and I have been working hard on these issues in IC and self help.

I always put her on a pedestal and internally thought she was out of my league. She was stunning when I met her in college (I was actually in great shape and feeling good about myself for the first time as well) and our first few years together were amazing. It was all downhill after that and I just got into the habit of putting her needs over mine to try and police her mood, same pattern I had with my NARC mother.

WW has a lot of mental issues she needs to work through too. A few months after D-Day she confided in me that she had been sexually abused by a family member as a young teen. I do not doubt that it happened (the family member admitted to it), but it is not an excuse for what happened with the A. The thing that is excruciating for me is that she describes the numb feeling she has for me to be similar to how she feels towards the family member that violated her. I have never hurt her in any way, so it is definitely some kind of emotional coping mechanism to protect herself from the guilt and shame she has with me.

When I tried to end it with D papers she said she wanted to try R, because she didn't want to tear our family apart anymore. I was hoping that was a plea for us, but it was likely a "stay together for the kids play". Or, as some have pointed out, a play to improve position in divorce court.

I know I don't deserve to be treated like shit. I have to stop trying to save her. My body is in the best shape I have ever been in after working through the intense pain and anger in the gym and the inability to enjoy food since D-Day, but for some fucked up reason I keep wanting the person that betrayed me to find me attractive. I have to somehow gather the energy to go through the massive undertaking of dismantling what took 17 years to build.

The thing that is excruciating for me is that she describes the numb feeling she has for me to be similar to how she feels towards the family member that violated her. I have never hurt her in any way, so it is definitely some kind of emotional coping mechanism to protect herself from the guilt and shame she has with me.

And yet she didn’t have this coping mechanism with her AP. She was completely open, free, joyful, and shameless while doing something disgraceful.

But with her husband— the man she is married to, with whom she previously had a passionate relationship who is bending over backwards to forgive her unconditionally, and is desperate to please her— she feels numb?

I suppose her proposed solution to her “numbness” is that you stop any attempts to hold her accountable, don’t question her lack of interest in you sexually, and shut down any conversations that might make her feel yucky even for a moment.

Do you not see how manipulative that is?

Also, in typical WW damsel fashion, she is relying on your inclination to white knight her in lieu of taking any responsibility for herself.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 7:51 PM, June 15th (Tuesday)]

I always put her on a pedestal and internally thought she was out of my league.

I keep wanting the person that betrayed me to find me attractive.

The two quotes above seem to be linked, in that you are still trying to get self-validation from her, in that you managed to get a physically attractive mate, so that you can feel better about yourself. This is possibly due to your FOO issues.

Self-esteem does not come from without. The word 'self' is already an indication of where it should come from.

Have you seen an IC about this? If you are not, it may be a good idea to start. If you are, this might be a talking point. You have to break this behaviour in yourself or it will lead you down a path of perpetual misery.

When I tried to end it with D papers she said she wanted to try R, because she didn't want to tear our family apart anymore.

So, what did you do when she said she will try to R after you tried to end it with the D papers? You gave in to her again. You are still putting her needs above yours, and you are looking to her for direction/affirmation.

BB, break out of this destructive behaviour you have. Focus on yourself first. You are throwing in too many ingredients into the pot, and as such, confusing yourself to no end.

When you focus on yourself, you will be able to think better, and then you will be able to come up with a solid plan that will be to the benefit of your children also.

Right now, by not focusing, and thinking about everyone else first, it will leave you in a terrible position of misery.

Like airline safety announcements, put the mask on yourself first. Once it is on properly, then look to put it on others.

You are no use to anyone, especially your children, if you are not able to think clearly.

You all know how devastating this is to your self-esteem. Mine was already really low before the A for a bunch of reasons (grew up as the fat kid being bullied, toxic NARC mother, etc.). None of these are excuses and I have been working hard on these issues in IC and self help.

I assume that means you've been talking about codependency in your sessions? The tip-off here is feeling like you have to "buy" love/approval. So, if that's you... why not keep a journal and check yourself whenever you find that you're involved in any kind of transactional interchanges with your WW. You said.. "I have been starving for breadcrumbs for so long that I have been greedily taking what she has been offering." But in reality, you weren't really "taking" her sexual favors because you're here, exhibiting anxiety because your WW is both emotionally and sexually "numb" to you. So, you have to ask yourself, are you "hustling" for love?

If your WW is not into you, it’s not going to work. It’s the same situation as when you date a women that is more or less interested. It sounds as if your WW is sticking around because it’s the right thing to do not because she loves you.

You care about your partner’s pleasure during intercourse, you are, by definition, a good lover. Many men will have sex with a woman and only care about their pleasure. They think they are great, but they are the “bad performers”. Your WW is not enjoying herself due to issues out of your control. She doesn’t love you, and/or her mind is elsewhere.

Don’t define your self worth through a relationship with a woman that doesn’t love you.

Double post

[This message edited by ShutterHappy at 4:29 AM, June 16th (Wednesday)]

I don't understand it. I guess I never will...

If she doesn't want you, and abandoned you and your family for someone else, then why the hell are you the one that has to file for divorce?

Cheaters want to be free of us so bad that they will turn numb emotionally/sexually and willingly live that way rather than initiating divorce.

...why the hell are you the one that has to file for divorce?

KAPPY,

The BSes who heal most are the ones who take responsibility for their lives.

If the BS believes the M holds no good future for them, it's wise for the BS to initiate, IMO. Why wait to free oneself until the WS gets off their ass?

[This message edited by sisoon at 3:22 PM, June 17th (Thursday)]

I highly recommend you stop trying to fix her. I know you say you’re not. But even this question has implications that you are.

You’re reading “no more mr nice”. I’m sure that has some info on handling what she is doing now.

Is she back living in your house? She really shouldn’t be.

Reconciliation takes years of hard work, and will NOT be successful if she’s still in love w someone else. If she still desires another over you. I would tell her that.

Stop doing her job for her. I’d let her know you are pushing forward w the divorce and she should work on herself and if someday she finds she does desire you again emotionally intellectually and physically you’d be willing to talk about it then, months or years down the road. And if you are available at the time you’d be willing to try again.

Now is not that time. Stop trying to fit a round peg in a square hole (pun only mildly intended).

Focus on you and your girls. Ask her to leave the house again. Finalize the D and get your kids to a new house and school by August. You got a lot of work to do and she’s keeping you from doing it w her “hopium” she’s feeding you. Work w your own IC on this. Find one that specializes in emotional trauma.

I wish you well.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 5:25 PM, June 19th (Saturday)]

but for some fucked up reason I keep wanting the person that betrayed me to find me attractive.

It's a behavioral pattern often dislayed by children from narcissistic families (where at least one parent was high on the narcissism scale). Psychologists call it repetition compulsion. It starts when the child doesn't receive unconditional love and feels they need to earn it from their narcissistic parent. When this goes unchecked (as it often does) it hijacks all social intearctions of said child for the rest of their life. Not only does it eat at their self-esteem, but the need to win the acceptance and approval of those around them becomes the go-to strategy in all spheres of life, most prominently their romantic relationships. They often find partners who remind them of their narcissistic parent and subconsciously transfer their desire for unconditional love onto them. Then they feel compelled to repeat the same pattern of behaviour (hence the name), believing in their subconscious that by "winning" or "earning" their partner's love they will redeem themselves in the eyes of their unwinnable parent who emotionally abandoned them in their formative years.

BTW: Your story is very much like mine, the only difference is that I was a skinny kid - still am as thin as a rake after all these years. Seeing all those similarities I'm really hopeful of a happy ending to your story, whatever it might be. Peace and strength.

The major issue I am trying to understand is that she is feeling completely numb towards me. Part of it is the traditional "ILYBANILWY" garbage, but it goes beyond that.

She loves you but is not in love with you. That’s cheater’ s jargon for ‘I am not sexually attracted to you anymore’. She even takes it a step further by sharing with you that OM made her cum every time. What a class act! What work is she doing exactly to get you out of your misery? Ok, she is not communicating with AP, but that’s just the pre-condition to even contemplate R, not the whole package. Especially if she is, more or less consciously, punishing you for that loss.

A lot of WS have a jerk reaction when they are served with D papers. All of the sudden, the BS becomes unattainable, becomes the prize. But once they have them back, the BS goes back to being a doormat, and the WS goes back to craving what they can’t have.

I am sorry to say, your WW sounds like a textbook case, and it doesn’t bode well for a successful R