SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I wasn't a great husband. I had horrible marriage role models as a kid and I carried over what i saw into my marriage. I wasn't physically abusive but i was mentally and emotionally abusive. I ignored my wife for years. I loved her with all my heart but I didn't know how to show it. I battle with depression and low self esteem and it affected my marriage terribly. I felt I wasn't good enough for my wife so I shut down and couldn't express any emotions to her. We were together for 10.5 years and things were great in the beginning but the last 7 years or so things have been progressively getting worse. I would tell her I loved her everyday and I assured her that she wasn't the problem and I was very unhappy with myself but she got tired of it. I wouldn't communicate with her, never gave her any compliments, never held her hand, never snuggled in bed, barely helped with house work,etc. She felt very unloved, unwanted, unappreciated, etc. She felt like she was just there. She went numb. She begged me for years to get help, get counseling, see a dr, get therapy, get marriage counseling, etc and I ignored all of it. She begged for more attention and more help and just wanted me to be better but I couldn't do it. The last straw for her was us moving. I convinced her to apply for jobs in another state which we loved, she applied, got interviews, got job offers and I told her to do what made her happy so she accepted a job. She was thrilled. It was gonna be a new start for us in an area we love. My wife listed our house for sale, found a new apartment near her new job, packed up our house, scheduled a moving company, etc and 10 days before we were supposed to leave I cancelled everything because I was scared. My wife gave up right then. She ended things. She couldn't do it anymore. She was done. A few days later she seemed to come around and I thought things were improving but she actually stopped caring. The marriage was over for her. What I thought was her accepting not moving was her just not caring anymore. She seemed happy but she wasn't. She was making plans with me, bday trip ideas, etc so I thought she was coming around but she actually was so depressed that she was planning suicide and was trying to make me think she was better. A few weeks later she went out for the night with her friends, or I thought. She actually went out by herself and got a hotel room with the intention of killing herself. She reached out to a friend of hers, a guy she knew for 26 years because she wanted somebody to tell her friends and family what happened. He told her not to do it and to wait where she was. He talked her out of it by saying very nice things about her. He said she's beautiful, her life is worth living, she has so much to live for, she's a good person,etc. He treated her the way I wasn't treating her and she was so overcome with emotions that one thing led to another and they slept together. I found out a few weeks later from her text messages. She text her friend what happened and told her friend that as soon as it was over she cried and left because it was such a mistake. After she came home the next day I knew something was wrong and I actually started opening up to her about me, my feelings, what I've been through in life, why I am the way I am, etc and she understood everything but the damage was already done, she was still done with me and she had already cheated(i hadn't found out yet). Our relationship improved drastically, we started communicating, sex life got better, we were happier but she cheated on me. She didn't cheat on me to punish me, she wasn't looking for revenge or anything. She got caught up in the moment and the guy said all the right things that I wasn't saying and she wanted to feel loved and wanted so it happened and now she's even more depressed and feels worthless. I love my wife and she loves me. I know I pushed her away for years with my actions, she begged me for years to get help and I ignored her, I pushed her to her breaking point and she broke. I understand her actions but I don't know how or if I can get past it. My wife was with another man. I know she's sorry, I know she's hurting more than me, I know she regrets it, I know she feels horrible about herself but its a hard pill for me to swallow. I know it never would of happened if I was doing what I should of been doing but I wasn't so she found attention somewhere else and it made her feel worse. Being with him brought us closer together, we talk now, she realizes how much she loves me and wants us to work,things improved but I can't shake my anger and resentment towards her. Our marriage was over, it was headed towards divorce or death. She ended things with me before anything happened. Were we separated? Is what she did cheating since she ended things weeks before? I want to try to make things work but theres so much anger and resentment. I don't know what to do. My wife is genuinely sorry and regretful. She made a huge mistake and is suffering from it. She cries everyday, she has suicidal thoughts, i hear her praying that she won't wake up. She admits its the worst mistake she ever made and she'll never forgive herself. She hates herself and what it did to me, her, and us. I hate seeing her upset but I also can't stop throwing my insults and rude comments at her because I'm so upset. I make her feel worse. She's suffering terribly and I make her worse. We're both in therapy and trying to work on ourselves but we don't know how to fix us. Our marriage was done, we were headed towards divorce, could this of been the situation that saved our marriage and made us realize that we love each other or can this not be fixed? I learned how to communicate and express my feelings, my wife learned that I do love her, we're actually working on ourselves now. Was this a blessing in disguise? Did we need this? Could this of saved our marriage? We're both still very upset about everything and somedays I can't even look at her because all i see is her with another man and it makes me ill. I've lost 20 lbs from stress. I talk to her and she just cries because she feels so bad about herself. We're both struggling horribly. Does this pain ever pass? Can this marriage still work? She insists that I need to go see other people so I can see if I'm happier with her or someone else but I don't want to do what she did to me. 2 wrongs don't make a right but i also don't know if this is gonna work with us. I know my neglect of her needs for 7 years caused her to feel worthless and unloved, should I accept that I played a big part in what happened and just move on? Can my marriage be saved? Is it worth it? Please help. I don't want to start over at 40.

You need to get into IC. She needs to get into IC. If she told you that she wanted a divorce weeks before she got with OM, I wouldn't consider it cheating. If she said something more vague like, "It's over," without specifying, I'd lean more towards cheating because that can mean anything. It's not clear to you that the relationship truly ended. But right now your focus needs to be on you and whether you are capable of becoming healthy and her focus needs to be on herself and getting healthy too.

It would be great if you could go in and edit this into paragraphs as it is hard to read this way.

I will tell you that I was in the same position as your wife (minus the moving piece) and HE cheated. I didn't.

When you say you were mentally abusive, I would encourage you to look further into that. I am not saying you weren't but that is something a lot of cheaters say.

Your wife's story sounds very made up. Very. Why did she call that guy? Sheesh that story sounds corny as hell to be honest. She knew what would happen in the hotel room if she called him over.

I would get yourself into therapy ASAP. Stop letting your wife play victim. No, she isn't hurting worse than you. Stop that thinking. She caused this mess. Yes you should have addressed the marriage concerns, I am sure she felt very hurt by that. But it doesn't absolve her of consequences. She cheated. ALL cheaters think they are special, better than other cheaters. They all think they were "not themselves" "chemically imbalanced" "not in my right mind".

I am glad you found us. Stick around and read lots. You are not alone.

Also - if your wife is suicidal call 911. You can't help her. If she isn't suicidal then she needs to stop saying that.

She was making plans with me, bday trip ideas, etc so I thought she was coming around but she actually was so depressed that she was planning suicide and was trying to make me think she was better. A few weeks later she went out for the night with her friends, or I thought. She actually went out by herself and got a hotel room with the intention of killing herself. She reached out to a friend of hers, a guy she knew for 26 years because she wanted somebody to tell her friends and family what happened.

This does NOT sound like you guys were not together when she cheated. I see someone posted above that you didn't seem to be together but it sounds like you were....

cmarch,

I'm so sorry to hear your story, but so glad you found this site.

The are many resources in the Healing Library that is pinned at the top of the Just Found Out forum. That's a great place to start.

It is totally normal to feel, hurt, overwhelmed, and confused at this time.

Prioritize taking care of yourself emotionally, physically, psychologically. Eat, rest/sleep, exercise and hydrate. See your doctor if you are struggling with any of these basics to get the support you need to take care of yourself.

...should I accept that I played a big part in what happened and just move on?

I say this gently and respectfully: while it's healthy and helpful that you own how you contributed to the dynamics in the marriage, she made choices. Even in the depths of her pain, she made choices. And she could have made other choices--to speak more openly with you about her own pain and despair, to seek individual counseling, to seek marriage counseling, to separate from you, or to outright leave. You are asking the questions you are at the end of your post because of the choices she made.

Can my marriage be saved?

First, nothing has to be decided now. Give yourself some time.

Marriages can be repaired after betrayal, but it is hard, hard work. Both partners must be committed to:
Honesty with themselves and their partner
Prioritizing open and honest communication with each other in an ongoing way
Working on their own issues and personal healing to become a safe, trustworthy, and supportive partner (for many people individual counseling is helpful for this)

Many will caution you not to rush into marriage counseling too quickly, but rather to prioritize individual counseling and healing first. This is sound advice.

Too many marriage counselors are not well equipped to deal with the trauma of betrayal and will gloss over the personal responsibility the wayward spouse needs to own and the true healing that needs to take place for both partners to be safe in the relationship.

If you choose to stay for now, expect it to feel like 1 step forward and 2-5 steps back at times. This is a time of turmoil. Be gentle with yourself.

Is it worth it?

Only you can determine this. Give yourself time to decide.

You have many choices and any of them are valid and completely okay to move forward with:
You can separate for now--either within the same house or outside of the same house. You can use this time to heal/work on yourselves and make no permanent decisions.

You can stay and begin healing/working on yourselves and your relationship.

You begin divorce proceedings and begin moving forward with your own healing.

Many others will be offering their support and advice. Take it all in and weigh it carefully, but accept what works best for you.

Sending you strength!

A few days later she seemed to come around and I thought things were improving but she actually stopped caring. The marriage was over for her. What I thought was her accepting not moving was her just not caring anymore. She seemed happy but she wasn't. She was making plans with me, bday trip ideas, etc so I thought she was coming around but she actually was so depressed that she was planning suicide and was trying to make me think she was better.

This sounds like you were together if she was making plans with you. If that's the case, then she did in fact cheat. You seem to be minimizing her actions because of how you treated her and your marriage. Both partners are responsible for the marriage but the decision to cheat was HERS 100%. She's owning her part which is good, but I think she needs individual counseling. Counseling for you as well would be beneficial so that you can see why you acted the way you did in the marriage and how to change if you want to save it. However, she needs to want to change it too and have absolutely no further contact with OM.

Whether your marriage can be saved is up to you and the actions you both take moving forward. You can't blame yourself for what SHE chose to do, but you can accept blame for your part in the marriage and work towards being a better partner. Counseling, separately, will help you both understand the roles you each played.

I'm sorry you find yourself here. No one ever wants to be here, but at least it's a place where people truly understand what you are going through.

I would like to share my perspective, because I had a long term relationship with someone and the dynamic was very much like your description of your marriage. From what you describe, the relationship was all on your terms. Granted, she chose to cheat, and that's on her. But you consciously chose to ignore all her requests for years. You say you love her with all your heart, but do you really? What does that mean to you? Loving someone with all your heart usually translates to actions that show it. You need to figure out why you couldn't or wouldn't do that.

I know what it's like to feel like she does. Numb doesn't begin to describe it. It's more like despair. You go through each day thinking that maybe today will be the day you get an affectionate hug, your hand held, or just anything that makes you feel like you are not invisible. It hurts every minute of every day. So everyday you keep trying harder, thinking if you just do all the housework, keep the finances together, and arrange all the day to day stuff, maybe, just maybe, he'll suddenly notice you. It's exhausting and demoralizing, but you hang in there because you love him. Eventually you hit a wall.

What is interesting is that you didn't really pay attention to her until you sensed a change. Now think about that for a second. You drove a woman to feel utterly worthless, un-loveable and invisible and then set up her hopes and dreams about a fresh start in a place you both love, and then you pulled the rug out from under her. It was an incredibly cruel thing to do, because when you feel like she did to start with, it's incredibly hard to sell yourself in an interview, much less land the job, and she did. You led her all the way down that path and then blew it up. And you don't mention anything about you getting a new job in that area. Was it because you never intended it to happen?

You knew it pushed her to the breaking point, and even then you didn't really try until you sensed a change in her after that night in the hotel. And even then according to you, the conversation was all about you. Your feelings, what you've been through in life, why you are the way you are, like it was some gift that you were willing to share how difficult you life is. What about how difficult things were for her? I guarantee that to her that conversation was a bitter pill to swallow. I'm amazed she stayed. You were basically outlining why she should put up or shut up. There was no room for how she felt.

I'm not saying you aren't entitled to be angry or hurt, but I think you need to put those feelings in perspective. Cheating is no answer, but you are responsible for the state of the marriage. If you want your marriage to work, I would caution you not to let the fact that she spent a night with another man be the excuse for why you don't need to change yourself, or as a get out of jail free regarding your cruel behavior towards her. You had every opportunity to provide what she needed, but didn't feel motivated to do that. I'm not suggesting you rug sweep this, but I do think you need to get some good counseling. In my opinion, what you did regarding that move to another city is not normal.

In the case of my relationship, ironically I did the same thing. I interviewed for a new job 130 miles away, got it, packed up and left. Without him. And then suddenly he did everything imaginable to try and win me back including propose. But I was done, and never looked back. He never wanted a wife, because that would imply he had to be a husband. He just liked that fact that I was taking care of everything while he floated through life. He is still single.

I say these things because I genuinely hope you can save your marriage. You both have a lot of work to do to get there, but I'm an optimist and I think it's possible, as long as you start really seeing her. Good luck.

^ THIS!!!

Read it three times.

I think you’ve been honest. Now step up and make changes. Get into counseling.

You feel you deserved this and I guess I agree.

Good luck, pal!

You feel you deserved this and I guess I agree.

Really? We really going to go down this road? "Deserves" got nothing to do with it.

This is so far beyond the advice that can be given on an internet forum.

[This message edited by AnOminousMan at 6:56 PM, Wednesday, August 18th]

Please just get divorced and get a therapist.

The infidelity is not your fault, and is not a symptom of a broken marriage. But make no mistake, as you have described things your marriage was already broken. I'm not sensing that you are swallowing a giant relationship history rewriting from your wife.

Just working through the infidelity is a monumental task. Once you do that you are going to be back at a baseline of a completely dysfunctional marriage. The chances your wife and yourself share an idea of what a good marriage is and a vision of the future is extremely low.

You feel you deserved this and I guess I agree.

Really? We really going to go down this road? "Deserves" got nothing to do with it.

This is so far beyond the advice that can be given on an internet forum.

Deserves it? Infidelity? Damn. Way to kick a person when they are down and reaching out for help.

I will agree with Charity411 about your contribution to the marriage. It doesn't matter our background stories; when we commit to a relationship, yet alone marriage, we don't have an excuse to treat our partner poorly. So please, if nothing else, reread Charity's part about your responsibility to the marriage.

That aside, and the flip side of this, is that your wife, no matter how poorly she was treated, never had the right to introduce a third party to the marriage. Don't say that she quit, and was separated in her mind---that's horseshit. Why didn't she tell you if it was over? Why did you have to discover it if the marriage was over? Why would she reach out to a male 'friend' of 26 years instead of one of her female friends? Are you telling me that she is closer to him than her female friends? Do you see how that doesn't make sense?

Look, if there is ONE THING that most betrayed people do when they join this sight(myself included), it's that we take some level of responsibility for our partner's cheating---and that is 100% WRONG. You couldn't force your wife to cheat any more than you could force her not to cheat. We are talking about one's character, and that is something that we have no control over. We are not responsible for other peoples' CHOICES. Notice the emphasis on the word 'choice'. What your wife did was not a mistake, but a series of choices:

--She did not drive to a hotel instead of the supermarket by mistake
--She did not dial her male friend instead of her female friend by mistake
--She did not mean to order room service, and had sex instead by mistake
--She did not forget to tell you this information from you by mistake

These were simply a few of the hundreds of choices she made to be unfaithful. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and credit you with being a shitty husband, but that does not diminish her actions. File for divorce; get a legal separation with no intention of salvaging the marriage---then one may even consider looking elsewhere. She did none of this. Stop (1) blaming yourself for her actions, and (2) stop downplaying her actions. They were every bit, if not more cruel, than what was done to her.

Once you accept the above, THEN the two of you can decide how to move forward.

Repost from the thread in General as it has been locked.

I already replied to your other post but since you posted here as well I will offer some advice regarding your situation. Others have posted similar thoughts but I have three suggestions:

1) Do what your therapist says;
2) Do what your therapist says; and finally
3) Do what your therapist says!

If we were to isolate your story right before the night your wife went to the motel, the story being told is one of a severely broken person. No advice that you are going to receive here to "fix us" will help. I don't know about your wife, but you need to work on YOU. At this point, there is no "fixing" your relationship. Here's a quote to describe, metaphorically, what I'm talking about:

"You wake up in the morning, your paint's peeling, your curtains are gone, and the water is boiling. Which problem do you deal with first?

None of them! The building's on fire!"

Do what your therapist says.

This post is HEAVILY triggering me. My WS was the same as you describe, OP. I felt invisible. I begged him to go to therapy. We didn't have enough affection or sex and I felt lonely and I told him that many, many times over the years. It was awful, it was lonely, I was sad and felt unloved.

It did NOT give me the right to cheat. The reason I stayed and asked him to work on those things is because I loved and respected him. Those are the same reasons I didn't cheat. I am a decade younger than my WS, fit, pretty & well liked. It would be easy to find someone to cheat with but I didn't do it because it is cowardly.

I was well within my rights to leave the relationship, as was your wife.

It is never ok to cheat. Ever.

I agree with the post above, do what your therapist said. You have some issues for sure but her cheating is HER deficit, NOT yours.

I hate seeing her upset but I also can't stop throwing my insults and rude comments at her because I'm so upset.

You absolutely CAN control that. You're not a child. You are in full control of every word that comes out of your mouth. The problem is that in those moments when your temper is engaged, you don't WANT to stop. Believe me, I know it's hard. I also know that it is completely possible to choose your words, even after a trauma.

And that's what's going on with you. You've been traumatized and there are physical consequences to that. The weight loss, the anxiety you describe as "feeling stressed", even the anger. The amygdala of your brain are probably still sending you frequent panic signals, releasing adrenaline and cortisol into your system. Your brain can't tell the difference between emotional danger and the physical kind. It just reacts. So you need to be aware that your body is going through something and take extra care to make sure you're getting enough rest, nourishment, hydration, exercise, and you'll need to avoid alcohol. See your doctor and get some help managing your stress. Believe me, doctors have heard it all and no lone is going to be shocked.

In terms of your WW's suicidal ideation... I personally wouldn't put up with that. I'm nervous enough on my own. I don't need people threatening suicide around me and basically making their problems MY responsibility. I didn't sign on for that. I wouldn't sign on for that. So, next time she threatens suicide, consider calling 911. If she's serious, she'll get the help she needs. If she's manipulating you, a 72-hour hold will teach her not to do that.

Your WW has done a pretty good job of convincing you that her choice to cheat was YOUR fault, but we can't make other people's choices for them. Her choices are on her. I'm having trouble determining whether she made a clean break with you before she made that choice. If she broke up with you with the intent to divorce and you were aware of it, I think she's on better ground integrity-wise. But if that was ambiguous, if you were in any way in the dark about the status of the marriage, then your agency was ignored.

I understand her actions but I don't know how or if I can get past it. My wife was with another man.

It helps to spend some time in consideration of "MY" when you say "my wife". Does your use of "my" simply differentiate her from other wives?.. or are you claiming some kind of ownership? It really helped me to stop thinking of my fWH as "mine". He's not mine. He's his. His actions are a reflection of HIS choices and no reflection at all on me. We tend to get possessive over our mates, and that's natural. But this is something that we would do well to let go. Your wife isn't yours. She's hers. When you make that mental correction, it allows her choices to really be about her. This is something you know in your head already, but releasing possessiveness somehow seems to let you know it in your heart as well.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 8:26 PM, Wednesday, August 18th]

cmarch -
Here’s my less than 2 cents:

Depends on whether her hotel story is true. You may need to poly to confirm. If it went as she says I agree w/Charity except for the deserves to be cheater part, I don’t think anyone deserves to be cheated. However, if everything you say is true, she should’ve left you eons ago.

But if she’s lying, while she seems to have gone thru hell, reconciliation is impossible if she’s not being fully truthful and manipulating you.

IMO you need a separation. And LC w/each other. You both need to do serious work on yourselves & being together is distracting each of you from that. You’re heavily focused on the other’s emotions & coping. You’re admittedly verbally assaulting your wife while also saying you believe she’s suicidal. You two aren’t safe for the other right now. You’re two very broken people, much of that due to the trauma inflicted onto each other. If you’re in marriage counseling that needs to be nixed & you both enter individual counseling. You may need separate anger management.

Separate for a couple months. If after that you both decide you want to stay together & build a healthy marriage, start MC while still physically separated. Move towards living with each other again when you’re safer for one another.

Please make sure you’re both taking care of yourselves, healthy eating, nutritional shakes & vitamins if no appetite, drink lots of water, engage in some physical activity & sleep. See your GP for help if you’re unable to sleep naturally. Wishing you all the best.

Just for the record, I never said he deserved to be cheated on. In fact I said that was on her. I even said he was entitled to be angry and hurt.

In my situation, I never cheated either. I left, and that's exactly what she should have done. I simply think that he has to think long and hard about his behavior in the marriage, and own it. Just because she is squarely to blame for the choice of infidelity doesn't mean he had no hand in the demise of this marriage. No one deserves to be treated that badly. If he had no interest in her, he should have just left. I know what it was like to live with someone that did the same to me and it would have been merciful if he just walked away and let her find someone who valued her.

I wish them the very best hope for fixing this, but he has to want that as much as she does, and I don't see that happening without a lot of introspection and therapy.

Charity411

Who said you did? (edit: nm, I see it now)

I responded to KatieKat.

[This message edited by AnOminousMan at 11:47 PM, Wednesday, August 18th]

I read a lot of your situation in mine. A few thoughts:

#1) I think it shows courage that you own your part in wrecking the marriage.
#2) This saying applies to your situation: "There's no marriage so troubled that an affair won't make it worse."
#3) I don't blame you for not wanting to start over at 40. In in my 50's and I don't want to start over. Most of us feel that way, you are definitely not alone.

I don't know when your d-day was but mine was about 10 months ago, the pain isn't as raw but I'm still very hurt. Ain't nothing feels like knowing another man was down there.

I will also humbly submit to you to examine your motives for saying hurtful things to your wife. I'm a BS with some abuse in my background, and I need to always make sure my motives for sharing pain is to obtain reassurance, comfort, and empathy (doesn't work for me but I'm not in R with my WW)

A "typical" abusive motive would be for revenge and getting even, which I think we all feel that way, at least for a while. But you seem like a good man to me who doesn't want to be the same man as before.

Gottman suggests sharing pain with a gentle startup. You can google it.

There's a somewhat long, somewhat repetitive book that I leaf through occasionally to keep myself informed and reminded on what abuse counseling entails. Lundy Bancroft "Why Does He do That?" you may have read it. It's terrible but I value it.

I can 100% guarantee you it was not a blessing in disguise. Was your treatment a blessing to her? A blessing may follow, but if you're Christian then you know temptation and sin do not come from God.

I feel for you, truly. It is a horrible, horrible position to be in.