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One of the very important things I have discovered about participating in SI is the insight and alternative thoughts that have been so generously offered. I’ve been flooded with new ideas, with innovative ways of approaching my difficulties, and empathetic ears that listen without judgement of my far too long struggle.

Everyone’s thoughts and insights have been particularly helpful in assisting me in recalibrating my thinking which has brought me some success where I felt I was a hopeless failure. Seeing things through different, multiple sets of eyes and points of view has been a precious gift that I do not plan on squandering.

However, the reason for the post that I am penning now is my wanting to address Superesse’s insight, and her followed up question concerning two comments I made on a thread that was not mine. I felt it important to start a separate post out of consideration of the other member. What I am seeking is to follow up on her thoughts as well as listen to what others might think.

I had said: (For context, my mom and sister, from day one, were cruel to my wife and our two kids.)

After several decades of trying to work things out, once my dad passed, I cut my mom and sister out of my and my family’s life. We never spoke again right up to both of their passings.

And prior to that I had mentioned:

...clinging to the pain of my wife's affair as if it were a life-preserver, it is baffling.

Which led to Superesse asking:

Asterisk, sometimes when people tell their life story, they will share what to them seems like just "another piece of the puzzle" but will strike an objective observer as pretty big deals. Let me put two of your key pieces together to let you see what I mean:
and
Don't you think the total alienation from your female blood family members only enhance your emotional investment in this marital partner, beyond what you might have otherwise invested in her? Just a thought...

Her question of whether I would have been less invested in my wife if I hadn’t been alienated from my mom and sister has my mind frozen. I can’t seem to either advance or retreat from her question!

I’m asking myself is she suggesting that it is a good thing or a bad thing to have enhanced emotional investment in one’s spouse? Is there such a thing as being "too" invested in one’s life partner? If so, is that something that needs to be reduced so as to not be harmful to oneself? If so, what does that look like? When I made my vows wasn’t I making a public statement that I was "all in"? That I would do everything in my power to work through any and every difficulty and trouble no matter what the sacrifice or pain?

What am I missing?

Asterisk

This place is pretty magical in that collective wisdom, isn’t it? Glad you have joined in.

I was the OP for a long thread titled "What is Marriage?", and I think the nuanced discussions there could be helpful to you as you try to unparalyze yourself from Supresse’s spell

When I made my vows wasn’t I making a public statement that I was "all in"?

You may have, but it seems clear that your wife wasn’t saying that. Or if she was, she didn’t have what it took to enforce it. I, too, was all in on marriage. I could not envision ever divorcing, I believed that we would work thru anything. But she didn’t, and we are now divorced as a result.

I believe it is possible to over-value marriage. In fact that is basically what I mean in my signature, that people are more important than the relationships they are in. You, good sir, are of greater import than your marriage. Even before it was marred with betrayal. Do you value yourself as much as you wax poetic about your marriage? If not, why not?

Inkhulk,

Do you value yourself as much as you wax poetic about your marriage? If not, why not?

When my fiancé and I were standing at the alter giving our vows, we were simultaneously performing a ritual.

Inkhulk, I think the ritual will answer your question best.

Before us was a candelabra holding three candles. One placed in the middle, higher than the other two. The center candle was not lit but on either side, there was a lit candle, one representing my wife, one representing me. As we finished our vows of lifetime fidelity and commitment, we each took a candle and together lit the middle one representing our union.

What I think might answers your question best is - then we each blew our candles making the statement that we were no longer two individuals but one person. The marriage was greater than our individual selves.

I don’t subscribe to this quite as legalistically (But almost) as I did when I was a Christian. But at the time of D-day I was100% committed to the ideal that the marriage was greater than our individual selves.

These days if I were to do the same ritual, I would make only one change. When the candles lit the middle one we then would place the three lit candles side by side with none of the three standing higher than the others.

Asterisk

P.S. Forgive my ignorance, but I don’t know what wax poetic means. Care to explain?

My views on marriage were also highly influenced by the Christian culture I was in. Lots could be said about that, but probably not easily keeping with the spirit of community guidelines.

When I was trying to R with my xWW, one of the MC’s had us using material that talked about the "Us", effectively a personification of the marriage, and we were supposed to think of it as being as important as ourselves. I found it less than helpful. I was betrayed. She was the betrayer. Where does this "Us" fit in? It’s a construct, not real, how can it be as important (or more important) than flesh and blood me?

All models are wrong, some are useful. Maybe that candle ritual that you performed was highly un-useful in conveying meaning into your marriage.

P.S. Forgive my ignorance, but I don’t know what wax poetic means. Care to explain?

I meant it in the sense of you speaking eloquently and positively. May have been an awkward turn of phrase.

[This message edited by InkHulk at 6:54 PM, Sunday, November 30th]