Cookies are required for login or registration. Please read and agree to our cookie policy to continue.

Newest Member: wheredowegofromhere

General :
Chosen for stability rather than love

default

 ButterflyInProgress (original poster member #87238) posted at 11:49 AM on Friday, June 5th, 2026

BackfromtheStorm

When one can’t love themselves they can’t love others.

I think that is such a hard truth to sit with especially when you realise that what may have felt like love from the other person may also have been safety, validation, loyalty, comfort, encouragement or being held together by someone else.

That was a tough realization but liberating because once I opened my eyes and came back to myself, immediately the cards flipped.

This is the part I am slowly moving towards now - not necessarily having every answer but coming back to myself enough to see that I am not just waiting to be chosen or understood and get what you mean about not settling for stability, except where children and family realities make everything more complicated and whilst stability matters - not if it means disappearing inside a role where you are useful but not fully loved respected or emotionally chosen and that is the distinction I am trying to understand for myself now...

ButterflyInProgress

posts: 102   ·   registered: Apr. 12th, 2026   ·   location: London
id 8896932
default

BackfromtheStorm ( member #86900) posted at 8:59 PM on Friday, June 5th, 2026

I have a few ideas even if I still have not worked out the bugs, but I’m a slowly trying in my spare time here to basically give words to what my gut feelings say.

In other words, like in the past for red flags etc your instinct knew it before it was found out, your gut knows a lot more than your logical mind do. Or better you do know but it was never yet articulated into words, but the feeling and instinct is super clear.

Maybe this is also why I tend to use so many words to express these thoughts, they are mine and they are intelligent qualities, still incorporeal as they weren’t expressed by names and words. It’s perfectly structured like an harmony in music, it flows, but until they are pinned down and crystallized on the paper they are not yet notes but the pauses between them,. You know the song and the melody already, just need to pin the correct keys down.

Anyway, I am doing it again, so back to the point:

Cheaters are no monster or sociopaths. Most often than not they are people we like, they have qualities and that makes them worthy.
But they have a special kind of broken inside that lies between the conscious and unconscious mind. They dream of being accepted. They seek validation.

It’s a common flaw but there’s some issue that instead of allowing them to grow up and find themselves, drops them into the self sabotage path.

They cheat because they’re running away from themselves. So they betray. Us and their inner self. This is hard enough that often they spawn an entirely new personality, fake one, but still a persona, a mask, a performance of a fantasy.

The game has tricks, because the mask becomes what defines you, and if they can’t get back into their deeper self, the mask will devour them, effectively replacing their self with the performance. And ends up into defining them.

Once you get there, you’ll lose yourself in a prison or your own making.

This is a very peculiar character flaw, it’s even easy to spot, you can feel when people are not genuine but performing, cheaters red flags are very very very easy to spot.

And that’s why the affair partners are spotting the cheaters and pinning them so easily out of the crowd. It’s not a subtle signal it’s a fucking neon sign.

Affair partners are either cheaters themselves or even more slimy and miserable when they are single (the kind of person that fails in the normal dating game so cheating is the only option).

They find each other because the signs are so obvious.

While sane people avoid both cheaters and affair partners as they smell off, because it’s so obvious.

Getting finally to the point:

The signs were there. Don’t you feel like we knew it all along?

Like all humanity we are also very receptive to those social cues, we are wired for it by nature. We also saw the neon sign, I suspect that for our partners we chose to ignore it.

Because we liked them? Sure but I am not satisfied with just that, I feel there is more.

Plenty of people you like but seeing their red flags (for whatever facet of humanity) makes you to keep them at distance. There is a metric ton of others you like with not so obvious red flags.

And we Still Do have in our lives people who carry their own red flags in this or that.
We keep them compartmentalized enjoy their good sides but always aware never to allow them in or us in their red flag territory.

It’s kind of managed in a sense, I think you can think of a number of people tha fit that description.


But we allowed our cheaters in, and instead of managing them, we gave them it all.
My understanding and unanswered question is why?

I think we have or at least used to have a complementary flaw, that is a match made in heaven for our waywards, I. Hell for us.

Unlike cheaters and affair partners we don’t possess that character flaw, that neon sign they spot in each other.

Our attachment is safer, we are more secure and we are repulsed by the idea of meddling in the sewage of infidelity.
But yet there is often a pattern in BSes that they found themselves not only once with the kind of people that cheaters are.
Sometimes it happened multiple times.

Cheaters are relatively common but is still a minority of the population and they tend to be alone and among themselves (so alone in the end, there is no love among traitors, only illusions and lies), the vast majority of people rejects them because the smell of the sewage is not appealing, no matter how pretty the face of the person swimming in the septic tank.

But we don’t, we didn’t.
That suggests to me we are fucked up in a different way to allow these people close in our lives, instead of leaving them alone in their septic tank with their kindred spirits, or just include them in our circle of "managed red flag acquaintances ". Close yes, but never too close.

I know this was likely the case for me. But I wonder as cheaters do present common traits (low self worth, validation craving, people pleasing etc), maybe we betrayed partners also have some common signs that we are. Complementing the cheater’s flaws somehow?

I can only note my experience of being constantly hit by cheater women, in a different way than other normal women (I mean emotional not just the regular attraction signs from a female, but more like infatuation), so perhaps I was broadcasting to some sort of signal that these people pick up?


Maybe we do this unconsciously?
Finding that out would be pretty useful to work on ourselves and erase that flaw from our lives.

It’s a good insurance for a path to happiness.

You are welcome to send me a PM if you think I can help you. I respond when I can.

posts: 753   ·   registered: Jan. 7th, 2026   ·   location: Poland
id 8896974
default

NoThanksForTheMemories ( member #83278) posted at 5:30 AM on Saturday, June 6th, 2026

They dream of being accepted. They seek validation.

It’s a common flaw but there’s some issue that instead of allowing them to grow up and find themselves, drops them into the self sabotage path.

This part resonates with me. STBWX and I got together in college, so we were both pretty young. We were both looking for acceptance at the time, and we found comfort and validation in each other. We married soon after finishing college, so still pretty young.

As we settled into our 20s and 30s, I think I grew up and found myself. My self-confidence increased over time, and I was content with most of my life choices. STBWX remained restless and unsatisfied. He continued to seek validation, always feeling like he had to prove himself to the world. It was most obvious (to me) in the workplace, where he was always striving for praise or a promotion or more money. I talked to him a lot about his lack of self-confidence and how (given his VP and C-level positions) his competence was clear, so why was he always seeking positive feedback from his superiors and colleagues.

I think we moved apart in a way because of that difference. He could tell that I was at peace and that I was disappointed by his restlessness. I was no longer feeding him the validation he craved, nor did I need it from him, so he found that dynamic with other women. His latest girlfriend seems to fit the same mold. I grew into myself. He didn't.

WS had a 3 yr EA+PA from 2020-2022, and an EA 10 years ago (different AP). Dday1 Nov 2022. Dday4 Sep 2023. False R for 2.5 months. 30 years together. Divorcing.

posts: 617   ·   registered: May. 1st, 2023
id 8896993
default

 ButterflyInProgress (original poster member #87238) posted at 10:41 AM on Saturday, June 6th, 2026

Lost1313 thank you for this

For the first time in 15 years I had a say in what direction our marriage was heading.

That is such an important point because betrayal takes away choice for so long. The other person knows the truth then carries the hidden reality and makes decisions while the betrayed person is living inside a version of the relationship they do not fully understand. I also understand what you mean about choosing to stay for many reasons - including family and not wanting to be alone and still loving the person despite what they have done. I think that is part of what makes this so complicated because the betrayed person is often trying to make a decision while still emotionally attached still shocked and still grieving and still trying to understand what was real.

you know it's crazy how some people can change their feelings back and forth like a light switch but I'm not one of them.

I feel that too and cannot just switch love commitment or history off - even when I can see the damage clearly and that is probably why the stability question hurts so much for me because it is not only about whether they stayed but whether the love and commitment meant the same thing to them as it did to us.

Thank you for sharing this with me as it really helps to hear from someone further along who understands how complicated the choice can be...

ButterflyInProgress

posts: 102   ·   registered: Apr. 12th, 2026   ·   location: London
id 8896997
default

 ButterflyInProgress (original poster member #87238) posted at 10:44 AM on Saturday, June 6th, 2026

NoThanksForTheMemories

I grew into myself. He didn't.

there is something very painful about realising that what may have felt like love and connection at one stage may also have been tied up with validation need reassurance and being useful to someone else’s sense of self.
What you said about him remaining restless and always seeking praise or confirmation elsewhere really connects with the stability question for me as it makes me wonder whether some people do not necessarily choose stability because they truly value the person providing it but because that person helps them feel held together until they start looking elsewhere for the excitement or validation they cannot generate within themselves.

I was no longer feeding him the validation he craved, nor did I need it from him, so he found that dynamic with other women.

this feels important because it shifts the focus away from the betrayed person not being enough and towards the betrayer needing external supply that no partner could safely or permanently provide and think that is one of the hardest parts to accept that you can grow mature become more grounded and still be betrayed by someone who has not done the same internal work...

ButterflyInProgress

posts: 102   ·   registered: Apr. 12th, 2026   ·   location: London
id 8896998
default

 ButterflyInProgress (original poster member #87238) posted at 10:48 AM on Saturday, June 6th, 2026

BackfromtheStorm I understand what you are getting at here especially around instinct knowing something before the logical mind has words for it.

your gut knows a lot more than your logical mind do. Or better you do know but it was never yet articulated into words

That is true for many of us as sometimes the body knows before the mind can bear to know and only later do the pieces become clear enough to name. I also think there is something important in what you are asking about whether betrayed partners sometimes have their own pattern not in the sense of causing the betrayal but in the sense of why we may have ignored /softened /explained away or managed certain red flags - I would separate that very carefully from blame as the cheating is still entirely the choice of the person who cheated and the question of why I trusted certain things/why I dismissed my own discomfort or why I accepted explanations that did not fully sit right with me is something I do think is worth looking at for my own healing - not because it makes me responsible for what happened but because I do not want to abandon my own instincts again.
Maybe that is the useful part of this horrible process - learning the difference between love and over-trusting, compassion and self-abandonment, stability and emotional safety. So yes I think there may be patterns worth understanding, but only if they lead us back to ourselves rather than back into self-blame...

ButterflyInProgress

posts: 102   ·   registered: Apr. 12th, 2026   ·   location: London
id 8896999
default

BackfromtheStorm ( member #86900) posted at 12:12 PM on Saturday, June 6th, 2026

Maybe that is the useful part of this horrible process - learning the difference between love and over-trusting, compassion and self-abandonment, stability and emotional safety.

In my reading wishlist there’s Machiavelli, that I oftentimes heard but never came around to read, in the past I dismissed it as a guide for sociopaths out of ignorance and second hand prejudice (Machiavellianism is a dark triad trait but is a descriptor not what the author intended).

The sentence I re evaluated (the only one I recall actually) is this

It’s better to be feared than loved, if love can’t be achieved

And while superficially and out of context it sounds awful and manipulative (and can very well be put into practice) in the context of the Prince as I understand it is used to explain the mechanisms behind leadership, loyalty and betrayal.

It’s about a ruler, so a leader and the way not to be betrayed by his entourage.

Loyalty can very well stem from love, if love is there.

But for all the others with issues and validation craving (power struggle in that case but goes for many human relationships as well) - we may even say low self worth ego junkies by all means, like cheaters - love will not protect you from the betrayal of your closest entourage if they exhibit those traits.

They are in possession of those character flaws that allow someone to betray. And in the context of a ruler it doesn’t mean just the sexual and emotional destruction of infidelity, but very likely murder and death too.

They might have loved their prince at some point in time, but when the low self worth and validation craving of their ego trumps the love, they will betray without thinking about it twice. Is predictable.

But the very same people will think a million times over about betrayal when the predominant emotion is fear.
The point is as I understand it, Fear is always respected, and respect breeds loyalty. Love is respected only when is present and nourished, and love must be nourished by two sides, the loved ones and loving one, to be kept alive and well.

Low self worth, overachievers, performers and validation junkies, usually are really bad in loving themselves, they need an external validation proof to feel fulfilled, and the easiest corpse to use as stepping stone for their ego validation is that or their beloved ones, because they are safe.

Their behavior stems from fear, fear of not being enough, of not being able to achieve happiness.
So they easily sacrifice their loved ones for even just the temporary illusion of reaching for happiness. They don’t respect love because deep down they never learned how to love themselves.

But they are truly terrified of those who they fear. The fear of others is automatic respect, they know that if they betray they will suffer consequences so is extremely unlikely that they will betray.


As interesting as this sounds is just my extrapolation from the very little information I have about that particular case.

Still outside ruling, think of infidelity and how the cheater act.

- They don’t leave and find a partner like you would. Because they fear to be alone.
- They get addicted to their affair partner because they fear to lose ascendant over them, and the self validation they crave.
- they lie and deceive because they fear of being discovered.
- they blame shift and gaslight their betrayed partners because they fear the consequences for what they did.

It’s all about fear. There is not the stability of love, the safety. It’s all unstable and transactional.

Cheaters are like that because of their character flaws. They can change by eliminating that character flaw and become normal, safe partners, usually way happier as they can love themselves.

However they have been with partners in the past they have not betrayed. They have been likely dumped at some point, at least seems to be common.

Why?
Because they didn’t feel the safety that allow them to feel loved, secure. They were in a relationship where there was always the fear of consequences if they weren’t always in their best behavior.
Similarly to an affair they had this constant edge of they could lose what they had if they slipped, so that same ego validation craving was completely busy into maintaining their relationship alive, leaving no interest in looking outside for an affair.

That doesn’t mean that is healthy relationship from the cheater side, nor that their "feared" partner was toxic, it could very well just a person with strong boundaries.

And the same was with us wasn’t it? When they weren’t sure if they were safe, when we weren’t sure, they tried to win the moon for us, to be validated and wanted.

But when the relationship turns safe, stable and secure, then that fear was lost.
And we know what happened then.

All this doesn’t mean that you must engineer fear in a relationship, I don’t think is healthy for you and your partner.
But there is always that transition from uncertainty (fear) and certainty (love and safety). If the red flags 🚩 become more obvious after the fear is off, instead of the bond being consolidated by secure attachment, I think that is a telltale sign of our partner character flaws.

They may betray us or not, that’s only on how deep the flaw is. If they don’t fear consequences I suspect the chances skyrocket.

You are welcome to send me a PM if you think I can help you. I respond when I can.

posts: 753   ·   registered: Jan. 7th, 2026   ·   location: Poland
id 8897006
default

 ButterflyInProgress (original poster member #87238) posted at 12:17 PM on Saturday, June 6th, 2026

BackfromtheStorm I think I understand what you are getting at although I would frame it more as boundaries and consequences rather than fear.

But when the relationship turns safe, stable and secure, then that fear was lost. And we know what happened then.

I feel that stability should not mean "I can do what I want because this person will still stay"as it should mean honesty/loyalty respect and emotional safety.

Love is respected only when is present and nourished, and love must be nourished by two sides

this feels like the key lesson for me as love cannot just be assumed or used as a cushion - it has to be protected by honesty, accountability and mutual care and am learning not to confuse unconditional love with unlimited tolerance...

ButterflyInProgress

posts: 102   ·   registered: Apr. 12th, 2026   ·   location: London
id 8897007
default

BackfromtheStorm ( member #86900) posted at 1:00 PM on Saturday, June 6th, 2026

Don’t get me wrong, the reference is about the sentence of Machiavelli, I specified that fear in a couple relationship is unhealthy.

I was analyzing that most of a cheater’s behaviors are fear driven or have a strong element of fear (except for their BS, it looks the only factor that is stable, loving, free from fears and hence -> disrespected and betrayed)

I feel that stability should not mean "I can do what I want because this person will still stay"as it should mean honesty/loyalty respect and emotional safety.

But that’s exactly what our cheater mindset was wasn’t it?

They do what they do, the worst kind of abuse, and they are confident that you will be there as the stable safety net if they were to ever fall.

That’s not healthy safety, that’s abuse and exploitation.

You being safe is exploited and abused instead of being loved and respected.

Is sick because it is the opposite of what healthy attachment does feel like.

All collapses when they get to realize that there might be consequences. They immediately change their behavior and try to mitigate, please, do damage control.

Not out of love, they are still selfish and in the fog.

Out of fear of consequences.

The lies, trickle truths, gaslighting that follows is again driven by the fear of you setting your strong boundaries or enforcing consequences for their betrayal. Is no empathy, love or respect, not even compassion. Is fear of being punished for the crime you committed.

If they can make you doubt your reality, you cannot set your boundaries, and they can perhaps persuade you in not enforcing consequences upon them.

Is management not remorse.

All the newly found "respect " comes from what they fear, not from love and regret as it should for a healed person.

Is still coming from a place of twisted sickness.

What that sentence means is those who are feared are safer from betrayal (and related suffering) because that demands automatic respect even from broken people. It’s one sided effect.

Love is only protective if it is clean and secure, has to be both ways. You are safe wit a secure loving partner, when both of you are fulfilled.

With a partner with those issues and character flaws, love is not enough to protect you from betrayal.

The first scenario is the desirable one.

Because you can be with a cheater in a betrayal free relationship if they fear you. They won’t cheat, is extremely unlikely, they will be begging for your validation and will never fully get safety.

But who the heck wants to be in a relationship like that?

—- reconnecting to my previous theory—

I think there’s something in us Bs that was unintentionally complicit in making our wayward partners feel comfortable in allowing their issue to take over and later cheat.

Possible that we have our own flaw that drops down our boundaries for the people we love and allow the closest (normal and natural to some extent). But when we spot their red flags 🚩 arising in prominence, instead of resetting our boundaries up and confronting them, we keep them lax, we tolerate them, trust and ultimately get betrayed.

That’s why we got betrayed and previous partners didn’t. The wayward is the same person, same issues. But the previous partners held their boundaries when they spotted red flags 🚩. The then potential cheater either fell back in line (out of fear, their issues didn’t disappear) or got dumped without a second warning.

We ignored and tolerated and they showed us the worst side of themselves.

The blame for cheating is still squarely on them, no doubt.

But we also failed to protect ourselves for some flaws of ours.

All in all this seems to fit in your "chosen for stability instead of love".
Even if love was there, fear and also lack of fear/respect for the stable partner, messed it all up.

[This message edited by BackfromtheStorm at 1:17 PM, Saturday, June 6th]

You are welcome to send me a PM if you think I can help you. I respond when I can.

posts: 753   ·   registered: Jan. 7th, 2026   ·   location: Poland
id 8897008
default

 ButterflyInProgress (original poster member #87238) posted at 3:44 PM on Saturday, June 6th, 2026

BackfromtheStorm yes I understand the distinction more clearly now.

You being safe is exploited and abused instead of being loved and respected.

Stability should have been mutual and protective not something that made me easier to take for granted or deceive.

Is management not remorse.

That distinction matters too as fear of consequences can look like change but real remorse has to become empathy accountability and genuine understanding - I do not want someone to behave because they fear losing me as I want love respect honesty and emotional safety because they are freely chosen.

ButterflyInProgress

posts: 102   ·   registered: Apr. 12th, 2026   ·   location: London
id 8897015
default

BackfromtheStorm ( member #86900) posted at 3:57 PM on Saturday, June 6th, 2026

- I do not want someone to behave because they fear losing me as I want love respect honesty and emotional safety because they are freely chosen.

Yes you deserve that.
And you will get it someday, I am sure

You are welcome to send me a PM if you think I can help you. I respond when I can.

posts: 753   ·   registered: Jan. 7th, 2026   ·   location: Poland
id 8897018
default

 ButterflyInProgress (original poster member #87238) posted at 4:02 PM on Saturday, June 6th, 2026

BackfromtheStorm thank you as this is what I am trying to hold onto now - not just whether love exists but whether it is matched with respect honesty and emotional safety and that feels like the difference between being kept and being truly chosen.

ButterflyInProgress

posts: 102   ·   registered: Apr. 12th, 2026   ·   location: London
id 8897020
Cookies on SurvivingInfidelity.com®

SurvivingInfidelity.com® uses cookies to enhance your visit to our website. This is a requirement for participants to login, post and use other features. Visitors may opt out, but the website will be less functional for you.

v.1.001.20260402b 2002-2026 SurvivingInfidelity.com® All Rights Reserved. • Privacy Policy