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Hi BfsT,

I will try to answer to your two last posts.

Do you see a difference if the infidelity happened before the Marriage and the Wayward still got to marry the betrayed partner later on?

Does it feel somewhat excusable or less important if there were not marital vows yet in place when the partner was betrayed?

Unfortunately, I cheated very early into the relationship and I kept it secret. We briefly broke up after that, and when we went back together for me it was a "clean slate". After years, I even stopped thinking about it, I forgot the exact date and so on. I didn’t consider it that "bad" at first. Usual excuses "we had been together only for 3 months", "it was a difficult situation", "I was young" etc.. On one hand, I think that cheating at the beginning of a relationship is less "bad" than cheating on a spouse. But now, I also see how keeping a secret for over a decade was awful. It’s not (just) the cheating, but the fact that I entered the marriage with a secret. I built a shared life on "quicksands", no solid foundations. The hiding and lying have become the real betrayal.

The above is my experience though, obviously others (and yourself included) may see it differently.

Yes- I think this is really where the start of reconciling happens.

Practicing being authentic is awkward because you don’t really know what it means at first.

For me, people pleasing was a huge issue, one that eventually made me stop even checking in with myself to begin to even know what I wanted or needed anymore. I had been living in autopilot, not really designing my life but keeping the balls in the air and making sure not to disappoint anyone.

I did more and more to be loved and lost myself in the process.

So unlearning that, it probably doesn’t feel right yet to the bs even when they fully understand the direction you are trying to grow is appropriate. It’s because it takes time to get to know yourself again and fill out to where it’s natural.

Completely normal in a situation where the ws is truly trying to change some of their core patterns. Try and take it as a good sign and I think in the coming months it will start to gradually get more natural.

Hi again BtfS
I am not sure I will be able to answer your last question, but it reminds me of my last post in the "wayward side" (some parts of it)

I think I am experiencing (from the wayward perspective) what you are describing, although our timelines are different.

From what I am doing and what I understand from others who are further along… I think this is "normal". You see changes but also glimpse of your wife’s "old self". Is this what you meant?

If yes, as a wayward I just keep doing the work.

It’s painful sometimes, yes.

I don’t expect my BS to immediately "let me back in", but I admit that sometimes a honest positive comment / acknowledgment from him (which is not validation or promise for the future) provide lots of comfort.

Yes it is sort of what I mean.

Seeing the change I like it.
Allowing a little more her in fills her with joy. Then there is that echo that seems to attempt to test my boundaries the very moment she feels validated.

I don’t like it. The results is she is cast out again.

I don’t know if this is painful for her, but is unavoidable.
I can’t tolerate that old person, it’s rejection at a skin level.

(About your previous answer I can just say, similar situation, long distance relationship cheated very early and kept it secret. For me it simply turned everything that as and followed as a complete lie. Not a blank slate, a void.)

People who have affairs seem to mainly talk about feeling alive.

Can anyone help me understand this? Did my husband and the woman he had an affair with imagine I was feeling *So AlIvE* while I was doing night feeds at 4am, or potty training a toddler? Is something wrong with me? I thought that when you have a baby and toddler and two difficult jobs, life is hard, temporarily, and that's ok. That doesn't mean I stopped focusing on my relationship, I didn't, but that's a different story.

I saw a post on social media today unrelated to affairs, talking about how feeling singled out, special and important in some way that other "ordinary" people are excluded from makes people feel alive. Is that where the feeling comes from during an affair?

I have heard the same about feeling alive, but my experience is that affairs are much more akin to a painkiller. I did not realize this at the time, but after much work in IC I can definitely see how I had no coping mechanisms for my emotional pain at the time. I also started drinking heavily / doing drugs during the affair and I would lump the affair in with those as a way to try and numb my feelings.

The affair becomes a fantasy where I could compartmentalize away all the stress I was feeling. The marriage and family life were seemingly great, but we also had two young kids (including a newborn), I was working in a very high stress industry, I felt like I was failing as a husband and father (long before the affair), and I had no ability to communicate any of what I was feeling with my wife. I had pretty significant FOO / childhood trauma that I had buried deep down and that played a big factor in how I chose to numb all of the negative emotions most healthy people would be able to deal with and communicate to their spouse.

One thing that came up in a recent CC session is my wife wondering if I was able to communicate with the AP as she was thinking that must have been part of the painkilling aspect of the affair. That was not the case with me as our relationship was very superficial. I did not have the skills to tell anyone what was slowly killing me from the inside. The painkiller was being able to completely disconnect mentally and bury / compartmentalize away the parts of me that were hurting.

I can honestly say that the AP could have been anyone / totally interchangeable. Not sure if you have ever listened to Kathy Nickerson, but she uses the analogy of the AP being like a frozen burrito. You go to the fridge late at night because you are hungry and you choose a frozen burrito not because it is really what you want, but because it is available, convenient, and willing to be microwaved at 2 am. Could have been anything that met that criteria. The AP in my case was equally as damaged as I was and I was likely a frozen burrito to her also.

I think people mistake the painkilling aspect of the affair for "feeling alive", when in reality the affair was slowly killing off the truly good parts of me. I totally blocked the affair for years after before I finally disclosed and realizing why I made such terrible choices required a lot of ongoing work so I get why people in the middle of or recently out of an affair may not see it for what it is.