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Hindsight

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Drumstick posted 5/15/2017 21:56 PM

Rambler,

Forgiveness, or condonation, of an affair is a statutory or common law forgiveness for adultery. So, in order to enact it, the divorce has to be based on grounds of adultery. To overcome this, YHGTBKM needs to file a no-fault divorce and utilize the pre-nup to set out the terms of the separation of marital assets. To that end, a good pre-nup with a fidelity clause should exclude the ability of a WS to change the terms of the contract as long as violation of the fidelity clause can be proven by the BS within the terms of the contract.

The only time I've seen this overridden is if the BS finds out about the affair, makes a decision/attempt to reconcile, and then decides they want to divorce and enact the fidelity clause after a year or so. This isn't what has happened here this far, as YHGTBKM has shown no clear evidence that he wants to attempt to reconcile. He gathered evidence and enacted his right to divorce, and his texts to his wife appear to lay this out.

To this end, if YHGTBKM does decide he wants to attempt reconciliation, then he should amend the pre-nup, or get a post-nup signed, so that the fidelity clause can be enacted at a later date if he changes his mind, for this particular infidelity. Hell, he could even put in a sliding scale into it, with something like he can enforce it 100% within the first year, but not enforce after five years, for this particular infidelity. Any new infidelity, with the same, or a new person, however, would still enact the original fidelity clause.

thatbpguy posted 5/15/2017 22:03 PM

Drumstick, in states that allow pre-nups (well, all allow them, but some states don't accept them in a divorce) I have heard that they are only valid for a certain time period. Is this your knowledge?

Drumstick posted 5/15/2017 22:27 PM

thatbpguy,

It is my understanding that pre-nups are effective in perpetuity, unless a sunset clause is specifically written into them. If I am not mistaking, this is the standard of the Uniform Premarital Agreement Act (UPAA) codified in many, if not most, states.

As for getting one in a state that "doesn't allow" them...just make sure your pre-nup utilizes a choice of law provision so that it is enacted under a state having divorce laws that does allow pre-nups. Then, the judge in your state will have to enforce the contract although they are not necessarily allowed. In this instance, however, there may be some conflicts of law issues. So, the best bet is to get married in a state that allows them, and file divorce papers in this same state. Do a little forum shopping beforehand to get yourself the best deal between divorce laws and pre-nup.

Hope that helps.

Ilovejoe posted 5/15/2017 23:12 PM

Maybe, after you get the written confession, explain calmly to your wife that reconciliation was never on the table but that you would like to proceed civilly from here on, for the sake of your daughter.

With your work and travel schedule she will likely get primary physical custody of your daughter. And as someone else mentioned leaving her destitute or with very little money will impact your daughter's living arrangements as well.

Drumstick posted 5/15/2017 23:16 PM

thatbpguy,

I was just thinking of one other thing. Most pre-nups will have a sliding scale that transitions personal property to marital property over the course of 10, 15, or 20 years. So, without the fidelity clause, the pre-nup in effect dies if it is solely focused on transitioning personal property to marital assets, or fails to have fidelity and alimony provisions. Maybe this is what you are thinking about when you talk of not being in effect during divorce.

Mrhealed posted 5/16/2017 03:51 AM

YHGTBKM

I have a question, what about OM?

Of he works in a gym, could be a good idea to go and talk to the owner to let him know that of OM is not fired you will be telling other husbands that in this gym infidelity is OK as OM still works there. If he doesn't have a J1 visa, a good call to immigration also can do the tick.

I am very surprise that your WW is not back, no matter if has funds or not, if I were her I would have sold my would to get the money to be back home ASAP (or at least at my town) and put as much distance as possible with OM. I belive OM is couching her. I don't think they are till having sex but why would she be staying with his family, with him? This brings another point, the time line she is supposed to write will have a lot of omissions and half truths. If it is just to prove adultery so you can enforce the prenuptial I thinks is OK, just remember that you can not Un see, un read, anything... And that you will have to interact with her as she is the mother of your kid. With brings another matter. None wants to see our mother in pain, no matter what she did. I am not saying that your approach is wrong or That R is a must (as far as you posted I belive she just told it was a mistake and blamshifted but hasn't oen any responsibility or asked for R) but after D IMO you should change your strategy as your daughter will have a relation with her mother for the rest of her life.

Good luck

From other angle,

rambler posted 5/16/2017 07:51 AM

Don't be too sure

Nemeth v. Nemeth, 325 S.C. 480, 481 S.E.2d 181, 185 (Ct.App. 1997) (citations omitted)

One of the essential elements of condonation is the forgiving spouse’s knowledge, Either (sic) actual or presumed, of the offense alleged to have been forgiven or condoned… Condonation may be presumed from cohabitation; and lapse of time, or a continuance of marital cohabitation with knowledge of the offense, raises a presumption of condonation.

thatbpguy posted 5/16/2017 08:07 AM

Rambler, interesting. Nice find.

This could get really sticky for both sides.

ChamomileTea posted 5/16/2017 08:23 AM

What's really sick about condonation is that some WS's do their homework when they've been busted. My fWH was one of them. I found this research on his PC after DDay. The only reason we are still together is that we'd already been married more than 30 years and no pre-nup to worry about. The only difference for him would've been having grounds listed on the divorce decree. It wasn't like he wasn't going to have to give me at least half of everything anyway. But if that wasn't the case, I wouldn't have even given him a rat's chance at R.

Cheaters can be more devious than we give them credit for. Through all the crocodile tears, my fWH was still trying to pull one over on me in those early days after discovery.

mike7 posted 5/16/2017 09:51 AM

don't get too worked up about the law thing. There's money at stake. Of COURSE she will fight for it, regardless of the law. Only someone very remorseful would be willing to give up a lot of money because "it's the right thing to do." Very, very rare.

Speaking as a lawyer, I absolutely guarantee that if OP decides to cut her out of everything based on an infidelity clause it will be contested. I can't imagine it wouldn't. That being said, if I were in OP's position, I would try to invoke the clause. Lawyer up.

Be prepared for a fight friend.


good luck.

thatbpguy posted 5/16/2017 09:58 AM

don't get too worked up about the law thing. There's money at stake. Of COURSE she will fight for it, regardless of the law. Only someone very remorseful would be willing to give up a lot of money because "it's the right thing to do." Very, very rare.
Speaking as a lawyer, I absolutely guarantee that if OP decides to cut her out of everything based on an infidelity clause it will be contested. I can't imagine it wouldn't. That being said, if I were in OP's position, I would try to invoke the clause. Lawyer up.

Be prepared for a fight friend.

If she's truly lost her meal ticket, of course she will fight for every cent. She has to. What else would she do, maybe *extremely tasteless remark deleted*?

I know this is morbid of me, but I really like to know how all this turns out. Normally I'd think the husband would roll over a bit and settle out, but this is a tested and veteran CEO who understands leverage.

[This message edited by thatbpguy at 9:58 AM, May 16th (Tuesday)]

YHGTBKM posted 5/16/2017 11:58 AM

@rambler; thanks for the concern and thorough research. The prenuptial agreement is iron clad and has been updated with each successive substantial increase in my total remuneration.

As I have stated previously, I was already established in life and wasn't about to throw away everything I had already worked for and the things I was going to accumulate for someone with everything to gain and nothing to lose.

I have provided her with a good life, far beyond what her contemporaries have a this point in their respective lives and to me that should be considered as "my part". She had very little in the way of responsibilities or expectations.

In the case of divorce for "irreconcilable differences", or any other reason than fidelity my STBEXW would be compensated well. I wrote in very detrimental compensation in the event of her infidelity, basically a one time payment.

As for custody, my wife was the primary childcare provider and that will carry a lot of weight but her abandonment for our daughter (emotionally and physically) and the fact that my daughter's wishes will be expressed and taken into consideration, will help to nullify her advantage. She has to face that my daughter will not leave her school, friends, comfort, everything she knows to live in what my STBEXW can afford.

I am methodical in my approach to any endeavor and this is not something I am taking lightly or with emotion. I need to crush my opponent and will take any measure necessary to do so.

Anything I choose to give/concede after I have won will be my choice.

OrdinaryDude posted 5/16/2017 12:05 PM

Have you had any more communication with your STBXWW?

Lalagirl posted 5/16/2017 12:13 PM

I am methodical in my approach to any endeavor and this is not something I am taking lightly or with emotion. I need to crush my opponent and will take any measure necessary to do so.

Anything I choose to give/concede after I have won will be my choice.

PREACH! It's times like this where I wish I had an awesome meme to post....

Lalagirl posted 5/16/2017 12:16 PM

...and I love your confidence!

after I have won

Not IF I win...


YHGTBKM posted 5/16/2017 12:16 PM

@thatbpguy;

I feel that being cheated on is already the largest concession I will ever make. I had no choice in the matter.

My life from that DDay discovery made me realize that decisions were being made for me, decisions on my health (unprotected intercourse), decisions about my future (talk about leaving me for him), decisions about my finances (moving small amounts of money to a black account), so me taking the steps I have and will take, is about taking back control.

I think too many BS grasp at the emotional aspects and forget that the WS is not the person they fell in love with, so the nuclear option shouldn't be considered as hurting the one you love, because that person doesn't exist.

The woman I loved died the moment she chose to betray me.

thatbpguy posted 5/16/2017 12:18 PM

I am methodical in my approach to any endeavor and this is not something I am taking lightly or with emotion. I need to crush my opponent and will take any measure necessary to do so.

Be careful. This kind of an attitude can backfire with a 14-year old girl. If she sees you "crushing" her mother the tide might turn on you. Young adults often have a sense of fairness you may not understand. Just a suggestion, but a little compassion and considerations go a long way.

[This message edited by thatbpguy at 12:21 PM, May 16th (Tuesday)]

thatbpguy posted 5/16/2017 12:30 PM

I feel that being cheated on is already the largest concession I will ever make. I had no choice in the matter.

My life from that DDay discovery made me realize that decisions were being made for me, decisions on my health (unprotected intercourse), decisions about my future (talk about leaving me for him), decisions about my finances (moving small amounts of money to a black account), so me taking the steps I have and will take, is about taking back control.

I think too many BS grasp at the emotional aspects and forget that the WS is not the person they fell in love with, so the nuclear option shouldn't be considered as hurting the one you love, because that person doesn't exist.

The woman I loved died the moment she chose to betray me.

In general, I am not going to disagree with anything you say. It's logical and reasonable.

But here is something I have learned in my 60 years. Just as it takes 2 people to make a marriage, it takes the same 2 to create a betrayal. Food for some deep thought.

Next, you have a daughter that most likely loves her mother and believes in forgiveness. If you encroach on that love, surely you will feel the sting of its repercussion. As to forgiveness, I have no problem not doing so- but your daughter needs to understand when forgiveness is warranted and when it is not. It, too, is in part a matter of the heart. That is, if someone cuts your heart out brutally, forgiveness is in no ways certain. I think that can be understood.

Overall, I do approve and even admire how you have handled the 'operations' side of all this. Only don't lose your daughter or your soul in the process.

YHGTBKM posted 5/16/2017 12:34 PM

@ordinarydude;

Everyday. She calls and asks me to bring her home to talk, that she's sorry, that she's dumped Carlos, that she's staying in a "flea bag motel" because it's all she can afford.

She has however forgotten to turn off her phones location device which tells me they moved on from Barcelona, North where she attempted to use the credit cards to book into resort and then obviously paid cash at a very nice 4*. They have since started moving NW towards what I assume is loverboys home town.

So even now, when honesty is what would curtail my resolve, She can only see her selfish motives.

I tell her that her flight home is guaranteed and that she needs this time to reflect on her life.

sassylee posted 5/16/2017 12:38 PM

I'm not sure what it means - it takes two to create betrayal...ygtbkm has no ownership in this betrayal...the marriage, yes - but not the betrayal...

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