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Lazarus posted 2/28/2018 09:03 AM


We're on roughly the same timeline. I still have frequent bouts with anxiety (and, like you, had never experienced that before). I generally try to hit the gym whenever any destructive emotion becomes really intense (anger/rage obviously destructive, but anxiety makes me compulsive about doing something [could be destructive something]). That doesn't work at night. I've tried reading or watching stupid/funny tv or movies with some success. Unfortunately, I mostly just don't sleep much. I understand not wanting to use medication as I fear I'll come to rely on it. However, Xanax does help and I will take it if I am unable to hit the gym and need to be around people. If not, trying to focus my compulsion on doing something to improve myself is my goal. Wish I could say it works all the time, but... right there with you. It remains a big problem. Working out or IC sessions help, but only for a short period. Xanax works, but it returns with a vengeance when that wears off (so probably only helpful for specific occasions, rather than a general treatment IM non-medical O).

Anyways, sorry you're going through this, but you're not alone.

HardenMyHeart posted 2/28/2018 14:58 PM

I have been struggling with increased anxiety/panic attacks. I don't have a history of this, so it has come as quite a schock to me
This happened to me about 2 years after d-day. My symptom was severe, uncontrollable shaking. I was diagnosed with General Anxiety Disorder (GAD). I have learned to deal with it over the last 9 years and I have not been on medication for many years. My recommendations:
1) Seek professional help, preferably a Psychiatrist that can examine both the physical and mental aspects of your problem.
2) Start a regiment of moderate to hard cardio workouts at least 30 minutes a day, 5 days a week. More is even better.
3) Find a relaxation technique that works for you. For me, I found that daily meditation works best. I have learned to control my anxiety symptoms using meditation well enough that I was able to quit taking medication.
4) Develop good eating habits and a healthy diet. This doesn't mean becoming a health food nut, but just a common sense approach to food by making sure you're getting enough vitamins and nutrients, and reducing stress causing substances, such as sugar and caffeine.

Sorry you have to go through this. I know it can be pure hell.

[This message edited by HardenMyHeart at 3:01 PM, February 28th (Wednesday)]

cancuncrushed posted 2/28/2018 15:18 PM

I have really battled anxiety....and never had it gets worse, when there no work keeps layering on top of each other...or with other trauma in the family...

I went on meds twice...they did help....but more trauma surfaces...

I have had the best results with distance....180...and working on myself...H has had plenty of time to make decisions, and act accordingly...Now I pick...I try to leave, stay gone, plan errands for more space...Not to be ugly, but Jacking the anxiety back up is not my plan...

space is good.

IJusthurt2017 posted 2/28/2018 15:31 PM

I am 7 months from D-Day and I still have anxiety attacks. My anxiety was so bad I actually was hospitalized for it. I am currently taking Xanax and Wellbutrin one for anxiety and one for depression as well as I am in IC. My attack tend to come at night as well, usually when the kids are in bed and he and I are alone. I guess kids are a distraction because they are little and needy. Make sure when you start IC let your counselor know.

ISurvived7734 posted 2/28/2018 16:13 PM

How do you feel about this reconciliation attempt? Are you able to accept her as a wife now that she has had sex with another man? Often times the source of anxiety can be severe internal conflict such as continuing to live with your WW when, in your heart, you see her as tainted and have no real desire to even touch her. If this is the case you may learn how to deal with the symptoms of your anxiety, but you can't really heal until you resolve this emotional conflict.

69lake posted 2/28/2018 20:52 PM


"I need medicating because of the way my WW has treated, and continues to treat me.'

The pain you are going through has to take its course but you will heal eventually. How long this process takes depends a lot on you. It is important that you take care of yourself both emotionally and physically. It is important that you continue IC and focus on steps to help yourself. As some SI members have suggested, find healthy activities that can that occupy you time and take your mind off the issues of infidelity in your M. Do not focus on your WW and deciding on R or D.

What do you mean by "WW..continues to treat me"?. Is she showing any remorse for her infidelity or is she rug sweeping or has she checked out of the M? In you 1st JFO thread, I 'copy and pasted' some postings by other SIs on what is remorse. You may want to read these.

Also, depending on the WW, remorse can be exhibited immediately or it can take take time to be expressed.

If you seriously want to R, then both you and WW must want this together and be committed to the long haul.There are no guarantees. To do this you must convince her to continue IC. Did WW tell you why she decided to stop IC after 2 visits?

Has WW stopped all contact with POSOM and is transparent with all communication devices?

My concern is that you that you may be in false R which will only set you up for more pain in the future. Focus on yourself and protect your heart.

bdc1 posted 3/1/2018 02:00 AM

What do you mean by "WW..continues to treat me"?.


Thank you, I have been back and re-read your comments from my JFO post.
No she isn't yet showing obvious remorse. If anything it ould appear she IS trying to rugsweep still
I *think* she is still in contact with OM too.. I last night tried to DrPhone her iPhone to retrieve deleted messages. Unfortunately she 'caught me in the act' (I was careless, and should have waited until she was in bed really) and she went BALLISTIC about it. Huge huge row, with her screaming at me, trying to get the car keys so she could leave (and trying to take the kids with her too nonetheless!!)I don't know why I didn't just let her go really I have, honestly, never seen her in such a state as this in the 24+ years we've been together. I have to say, it scared and upset me. When she started to finally calm down, I could see *that look* in her eye that she has shown before recently when she's on the brink of telling me something big, but she seemed to reign herself in again this time. She called ME all the names under the sun, and apparently I have NO RIGHT to "invade her privacy like this" (her words) and that's the reason she reacted the way she did......!!
She's been telling me for the last couple of weeks that she is definitely NC with OM, yet as soon as I try to gain confirmation of this for myself, she loses it with me!
Now, I'm not stuoid, and I do realise that because of the totally broken trust there is at the moment that she could be genuine abou the NC. But something just doesn't add-up here. Why react that way if you have nothing to hide??

bdc1 posted 3/1/2018 02:07 AM

Are you able to accept her as a wife now that she has had sex with another man?


This is something I have been continually asking myself. It, obviously ,changes EVERYTHING. Especially as prior to this neither of us have ever had another sexual partner.
The 'problem' is, regardless of what has happened, I'm madly and deeply in love with her still. I am working with my IC to find a way to deal with the sexual aspect and to help ME find peace with that

69lake posted 3/1/2018 23:40 PM

I am sorry for everything that is happening in your life right now. Yes her behavior is indeed strange and suggests that WW is still in contact with POSOM. It is possible that she is finding the right time to move out of the M or waiting for you to start D or is still meeting up with POSOM.

Yes by not being transparent, WW is not showing any remorse and I am sad to say that R will be an uphill battle.

How old are your children?

At this point, you need to take care of yourself and your heart. Plan for the best BUT prepare for the worst.

Contact OBS to see if she can provide any information on POSOM and the PA. Are they back together or has POSOM left the marital home permanently? If POSOM have left permanently, it is a red flag.

Also, please see a good divorce lawyer to know your rights in terms of assets and children and what have to be done if need to D.

You have loved and still love you WW BUT she has chosen to cheat on you and this is NOT your fault. Unfortunately the wife that you have now is NOT the same person that you knew and loved before the PA. You will need to remove the rose colored lens on how you view your WW.

Talk to your IC to see if it is a good idea to bring WW to one of your sessions so that she can observe first hand the amount of pain and anger she has caused you. Maybe this will bring her back to reality and into remorse.

I really hope and pray that things work out between you and WW. But at some point in the future despite your sincere efforts, you see there is no change in WW, then you will need to let her go.

Giving you strength.

Lazarus posted 3/2/2018 07:47 AM

I *think* she is still in contact with OM too.. I last night tried to DrPhone her iPhone to retrieve deleted messages. Unfortunately she 'caught me in the act' (I was careless, and should have waited until she was in bed really) and she went BALLISTIC about it.

Did you not make 100% transparency/access a condition? If she isn't doing everything to make you feel safe/secure that is going to lead to major anxiety. In my case, I don't know that I have a preference between D and R (except that R is preferable for kid if we can make it work), but the uncertainty of whether WW and AP were still carrying on drove me crazy and resulted in major (acute) anxiety (which kept me from even getting to the question of whether I want to try to R).

Your WW should be trying to make you feel safe/secure anyways, but I'd consider looking hard at the messages you've sent to her (she either isn't getting it or you're not sending the right message). IMO her throwing a tantrum about that is just unacceptable. First off, that is a pretty strong (like high 90s %) indicator that they are still in touch. Second, it indicates that she isn't willing to do what it takes to make you feel safe/secure. Third, it shows a lack of remorse (and supreme arrogance) that she would act that angry and try to take the kids etc.

She ain't acting right and you know it.

[This message edited by Lazarus at 7:53 AM, March 2nd (Friday)]

bdc1 posted 3/6/2018 03:27 AM


I have done my best to remain calm, and withdraw myself a bit from the sitution this last few days. I can't deal with the confrontation at the moment, as it's making my mental health suffer even more.
My WW has done the same too since the 'DrFone Incident', which I'm certain is her way of trying to rugsweep the whole thing.
At the risk of becoming obsessed about the OM, I have been checking, and have confirmed that he has definitely left his wife, and is living quite near to us.... This scares the hell out of me, and I feel so 'unsafe' (not physically I might add, just mentally) because of this fact....I know, despite any protestations from my WW, that it would be so easy for them to be in touch with each other now....

My head is in such a mess now, and I just don't know which way to turn if I'm honest. I'm continuing with my IC, which as I've said before, is helping me express myself, but I still have so much pent-up anger and sadness. This is far worse than I could have ever imagined (not that I had ever imagined it happening of course) and I want it to stop. I'm beginning to wonder if I'm doing the right thing, and perhaps I should be considering a future without her.... I appreciate that will be my decision, and am not asking for wisdom on that one, I know it has to come from me

BeStill posted 3/6/2018 07:33 AM

I don't want to oversimplify your situation - all of our situations are incredibly nuanced and complex because of the humans and extenuating factors in them. So instead of pretending to know what's best for you and hitting you over the head with it, I will frame it as "food for thought". A theory to try on and see if it fits.

You are sleeping with the enemy.

Could it be that your anxiety is your natural and lucid response to an incredibly harmful situation, namely that of being completely exposed to the person that has caused you the worst trauma in your life thus far?

Have her move out. Of course you will be faced with sadness and longing without her there, but you will at least be SAFE, both physically and emotionally. This should reduce your anxiety.

Do not seek solace from your torturer.

I wish you comfort and healing.

VinST posted 3/6/2018 07:50 AM

Sounds like your wife is still in the affair emotionally at best
You have not set ground rules... or not stuck by them. Access to her phone and email should have been No.1
She is not remorseful.
A shift in power needs to take place. You need to become the alpha male again
Blaming you about the affair is typic al of someone who hasnt taken responsibility. She has not owned her deeds.
Unless you make some major adjustments your heading down the doormat slope and its going to be hard to climb out of that pit.
Generally I am dead against R from a man's perspective as I believe I am worth more than to be someones second choice. This has worked out really well for me even though I thought the pain would never go away. There are those that have actually felt true remorse and I feel compelled to say that I may have been harsh in my judgement of this subject. This I feel not one of those cases.

I wish you well Mr BDC

sisoon posted 3/6/2018 11:22 AM

It took me 3 months to commit to R. During that time I came to understand that one can love someone even though it's impossible to be M to that someone.

Right now, you're trying to stay with an unremorseful WS. That's an awful situation to live in, IMO. Alas, you're the only one who can change it.

I know you have immense amounts of anger and grief to process, and you're using IC for that, but how about using IC to help you figure out how you want to live for the near future?

Have you read 'The Simplified 180' ( I think it's the best course of action for you at this point, if you're ready.

Also, the bottom third of page 2 in the JFO forum has a group of threads that might be very useful to you - they're the ones identified with targets/bull's-eyes in the thread list. (Check page 3, too, since new threads my push the 'target' threads there.

69lake posted 3/9/2018 00:39 AM


Once again I am so sorry for the pain that you are going thru.

By both of you withdrawing, it shows that both of you are hurting and are closing all doors for further communication. From your posts, WW seems unable to express her feelings and tends to 'shut down' or 'explode' when confronted.Is this the normal her or something new after DDay?

You are still in the anger phase and any decisions for R or D should be postponed until you get out of this phase. You do not want to do anything that you will regret later. In the mean time, rather than both of you withdrawing into your own cocoon, can you have activities together so that at the very least, communication can be established.

As advise before, you still need to consult a good divorce lawyer to understand your rights with regards to children and assets. This knowledge irrespective of your final decision to R and D will come in useful later.

In your postings, I detect signs that WW still cares for you eg the valentine card, reaching out to you when you have an anxiety attack etc. Maybe WW is also at a loss on how to help you heal and so she rug sweeps the EA/PA. As mentioned, some waywards takes some time before they begin to process the amount of pain that they have caused and begin to show any signs of remorse and some may never show any remorse as part of their coping mechanism. You need to talk to your IC about your WW and her behavior. It does not help that she has refuse to go for IC herself.

If you really want to R with WW, I suggest that you write her a long letter and read it to her when you feel that both of you are ready. In the letter, talk about the good times that you had together before the EA/PA and thank her for the kids and being a good wife and mother. Talk to her about your dreams together and where you envisioned both of you should be in the future. In all this tell her how much you loved and still love her. Then tell her how the EA/PA has robbed you of everything and the pain it has and still causing you. Tell her what are your fears and that you do not feel safe anymore. Tell her that you still love her and is willing to put in the effort to make the M work. That you cannot forget but will forgive her and move on with the M. Tell her that for both of you to make the M work, WW must make you feel safe in the relationship and that there must be no other man in your M and you will not be cuckcold into an open relationship as your self respect is very important to you. In your letter, never apologize for anything because you did not cheat and never do the 'pick me up dance'. Tell her she have to choose between you or POSOM and you will give WW a few days to make a decision.

I suggest that you let your IC go thru the letter before reading it the WW.

If WW decides to stay in the M, then there is a chance of R.

If WW chooses out of the M, then you will know where you stand and you can get out of this limbo and pain. Love is a choice and you cannot force WW to love you if she chooses not to. You deserve to be happy and if WW cannot give you the happiness that you deserve, you will have to let her go and seek your happiness with someone else.

Whatever the outcome, always remember that you will survive this and you deserve to be happy.

Giving you strength.

bdc1 posted 3/9/2018 02:09 AM


Thank you so much for your reply - this genuinely brought tears to my eyes this morning (in a positive way for once)
I think writing a letter to her as you suggest will be a cathartic thing for me at the moment, so I'm going to draft something over the weekend.

69lake posted 3/11/2018 21:56 PM

I strongly recommend sisoon's advice :

"Also, the bottom third of page 2 in the JFO forum has a group of threads that might be very useful to you - they're the ones identified with targets/bull's-eyes in the thread list. (Check page 3, too, since new threads my push the 'target' threads there" These threads have moved to page 4/5 now.

Read the thread " Before you reconcile...recover" among others. This will mentally and emotionally prepare you.

Praying for you and your family.

69lake posted 3/11/2018 22:08 PM

If your WW is not in active infidelity and you want to offer her the gift of R, then IMO you will need to help her get there. Be gentle in spite of your anger.

Adlham posted 3/11/2018 22:20 PM

Ugh... anxiety and panic I hate them!

bdc, I have a thread of tips here

The biggest thing that works for me is venting, out loud, because internalizing things brings the attacks on with a vengeance. When I was first diagnosed some 20 years ago, I had to take Ativan daily. I did that for an entire year. Along with intense counseling. Now I can head them off by venting and deep breathing. I rarely have them anymore, which is good.

I'm so sorry. Eventually, it does get better.

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