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When A WS Leaves For Their OP Part 2

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hopefullife posted 2/29/2020 15:43 PM

Or I am the fool, he's the fooler. I feel so dumb sometimes thinking about all those times I talked about, especially to those who knew, how hard he 'worked', to find out more than a year later that he wasn't really working

The feeling passes quickly though. I can hold my head high, not sure about him and other people.

While still technically married, I consider him my ex now. I've not had any other so that word has never been used so begrudgingly. We'll get used to it.


ShatteredSakura posted 2/29/2020 17:31 PM

For me it's the first time that has emotional weight tied to the word "ex". Everyone else are at this point are just random strangers to me. That's partly because I guarded my heart until I felt a very special connection.

Last night I went back and read your JFO thread, I don't think I actually looked at it before. Did your WH ever apologize to your parents and say goodbye? Mine never did, and wouldn't have the nerve to at this point, it was like there one moment gone the next for my parents who treated her like a daughter.

And fool might be an understatement, maybe more like "no curse in entish or elvish or the tongues of men for this treachery..." lol.

It's frustrating as an outside perspective because how you describe your relationship - this guy had it good. He had things I yearned for myself. Things that I wish were the way between me and WW. And he himself sounds like WW's AP in needing to be bossed around, and WW sounds like your AP.

You mention he started cheating after 1 year of marriage, but you also were together 8 years before then. Marriage doesnt change you or make anything magically better. He didn't know he didn't really want to be with you after all that time?? 6 years with me and WW chooses her ex again, who she had a rocky relationship originally. Why are these people with us if they're not "all in"??

It's like the wires are crossed. These two could have spared us so much pain. I would've been better off if I met someone like you.

You telling him about desires for kids while he was with the AP triggered something where all I could say was "fool". WW sometimes would talk about having kids during the affair. It's not fun hearing "let's have a baby" when you're in the midst of this. My worst possible fear is its the AP's kid and not mine! That's the only nightmare of mine that has yet to come true. It's the one I hope I never have to come close to again.

I woke up from a nap and I feel like flipping some tables lol


[This message edited by ShatteredSakura at 5:45 PM, February 29th (Saturday)]

hopefullife posted 2/29/2020 21:58 PM

There's more to that story I haven't told SI, maybe reserved for another day. I look back at that JFO thread and it feels like a lifetime ago. Great responses, glad I found this place. If only there was no need to find it.

I thought we both had it good. I wasn't perfect but he never gave me the chance to be. The OW was more of a wife material ready while I was just learning. He told a friend she's a great cook. If a way to a man's heart was through his stomach, I definitely lost it there as I was still learning when we moved in together. I'm sure she's better in bed, not to put her in a negative way, but she had men plenty. I've ever only had him. Though more than the physical affair, it's the emotional connection they shared that I will forever be haunted with because it's what made him destroy the relationship we built for years. He allowed himself to be consumed by his feelings for her. I would never allow myself that because loyalty is my code. I thought we shared the same values.

He didn't see my parents personally but he messaged them to say sorry for everything. I would have still preferred he faced them but I'm done pushing him to do so as I'm choosing NC. I become an emotional wreck talking to not just him but anyone from his side of the fence so I cut off everyone who's there.

My other nightmare is he'd have another child with AP. I don't think it's farfetched, but goodness, can we at least end ours first.

I'll try everything to put an end to this nightmare. I swear I want some of that Black Mirror tech in real life already, no matter the danger it represented.

ShatteredSakura posted 2/29/2020 23:40 PM

I guess my point is if he thought she was more wife material than you, he should get a load of my WW!

But there are two things:

1. She lost "wife material" the moment she became an AP. Doesn't matter how good she can cook or how good of a lay she is.

2. Your husband lost his "husband material" card when he became a wayward.

WW was my only sexual partner too (not vice versa)...maybe we both have oneitis...she certainly seemed to like our sex life so I don't know if I "failed her" in that category.

I don't think it's an honest evaluation to determine someone is bad or good at sex in a hookup or based on # of past partners...any two people who love each other, who listen, and are willing to make the effort will "get good" with the other person with time IMO.

And on a man's heart is through their stomach...I think that's true for women too lol. First date with WW I baked her pumpkin bread. I'm not the best cook, but IMO cooking for family and partners is a genuine act of love...even if it's just a baloney sandwhich.

Maybe it's just my experience has colored my perspective, I'd be appreciative just being served. I guess if someone "expects" it they may think differently or not be as satisfied with the quality.

I would never allow myself that because loyalty is my code. I thought we shared the same values.

I feel like loyalty is a precious commodity these days. A lot of people in our generation seem to make decisions based on their current, shifting feelings, everything else be damned.

I think about dating and I see potential women and all I can think is how many of these women had a shift in their feelings, and cheated on boyfriends or nuked relationships...and if they did it before, will they do it to me then? I wish you could measure loyalty...

So IMO, you are far more "wife material" than she ever will be. It's not even close.

Hopefully you'll be free of him before they have more children. I wouldn't count on him being considerate enough to wait, since it already happened once (and I assume it was unplanned). They have a knack for constantly disappointing us once we are no longer in their radar.

I sometimes think if maybe the same will happen to WW.

[This message edited by ShatteredSakura at 11:53 PM, February 29th (Saturday)]

hopefullife posted 3/1/2020 03:22 AM

You mention he started cheating after 1 year of marriage

Correction on this by the way. He started cheating 4 months into the marriage which I found out a year and a half later. He married me on paper, but he was starting a family with a different one apparently. I can't articulate just how much that destroyed me.

So IMO, you are far more "wife material" than she ever will be. It's not even close.

Thank you it doesn't feel that way at times though. But I keep repeating wife material or not, cheating should have never been on the table.


So true on loyalty being a precious commodity these days. I'm not sure if statistics say there's less cheaters before our generation or the internet just happen to make it more known. People nowadays justifies everything because "life is short and the heart says so". The sad thing is, I'm the most understanding person I know and I feel like there was no need to destroy me like this. I mean yes I'd definitely still get my heart broken, but I would have taken separation much more amicably than getting lied to. Though if he was committed, he never would have been in the position of falling for somebody else in the first place.

We happened to love somebody who didn't love the same way.

He must have loved me when he married me sure, but his love didn't contain the commitment I expected and provided, which made his love so pale in comparison.

I think about dating and I see potential women and all I can think is how many of these women had a shift in their feelings, and cheated on boyfriends or nuked relationships...and if they did it before, will they do it to me then? I wish you could measure loyalty...

There's a similar ep in Black Mirror where simulations are run to know if you're compatible enough to break all odds. I kind of wished now we have it in real life XD maybe finding a life partner would be less stressful.

ShatteredSakura posted 3/1/2020 07:27 AM

He married me on paper, but he was starting a family with a different one apparently. I can't articulate just how much that destroyed me.

Yes, the baby was already born by the time you found out right? So that moves the time line up considerably. It was still unplanned though right?

4 months or 12 months, I think it's another case of a partner staying because they've settled. He was with you for 8 years: he hasn't found anyone else, he may as well make it "official". Maybe he thinks tieing the knot will make things better somehow. Maybe he was getting pressure from others. Whatever the reason, someone who cheats that soon after a wedding sounds like they were only half hearted about the relationship to start. He had 8 years to decide that you weren't his "forever".

Like you said, I think it reveals a lack of commitment. Up until that point it never was truly tested. If they met before the wedding I'd bet 5 bucks the same events would have unfolded (more confident of that wager with your correction too).

I guess I've never been in a position where I'm with someone and not in love with them. I cannot imagine it. I don't think I'd stay (I didn't think I'd stay after being cheated on so who knows). I pity the people who stay for the sake of being in a relationship, who don't want to be alone. WW fits that bill too.

All I know is after all this crap, it's hard to suppress only having eyes for my WW. Maybe it's because I don't have anyone giving me ego kibbles like our waywards, I don't know. I'd like to think that if I'm with you in the 8th year, 4 months isn't going to make a difference to me because I'm in it for life. It won't matter when this other woman shows up, because my eyes are focused inward. Especially without being cheated on? Having a supportive wife who does things for you or doesn't demand the moon from you? IMO it sounds like bliss and harmony compared to what I've been through, lol!

So true on loyalty being a precious commodity these days. I'm not sure if statistics say there's less cheaters before our generation or the internet just happen to make it more known. People nowadays justifies everything because "life is short and the heart says so".

Yeah, #YOLO right?

If you aren't feeling the tingles anymore, go find someone else who gives you that! If your spouse isn't your idea of perfection, then you're just not compatible and it's okay!

WW and I met via Okcupid, but I can see the dangers Internet dating has brought us. You're able to find hundreds of new partners at your fingertips, it's shopping for love. If someone doesn't fit your ideal specifications, throw them back. Our parents and grandparents never had that sort of power. And I think for many people it breeds a terrible form of FOMO there might be someone that is even more perfect and compatible for you out there. And many people are led to believe they deserve that prince or princess, so discarding their current beau is okay.

We're all flawed people and often life won't fit into that little box of other people's expectations. I firmly believe love is more than just those tingles. Maybe you can argue that means there were more unhappy marriages in past generations, but I'm not so sure. I think it's easier to wander now because it's easier to survey whats out there. And when you have so much choice, you stop looking inward and worse start becoming resentful why your partner isn't more like this other choice you could be with. What does being envious (and lusting after other people) have anything to do with compatibility? IMO coveting others breeds incompatibility, the word becomes a convienent excuse.

Basically I'm talking about ignorance is bliss lol. I'm thinking of a fable where a peasant wife and husband get caught up in shenanigans because they see what they look like in a mirror for the first time and don't like what they see about themselves. Obviously they were each okay with the other person's looks, but knowing their own looks made them go nuts. Sometimes it's better not knowing what you're "missing in life" if coveting it only brings discord.

There's a similar ep in Black Mirror where simulations are run to know if you're compatible enough to break all odds. I kind of wished now we have it in real life XD maybe finding a life partner would be less stressful.

Well for me it'll be questions on if they cheated before or the like. Real great dating conversation that will garuantee a second date eh? I sometimes wonder that I need to find another BS to be understood...I know it won't garuantee no cheating, but I just do not want to be involved with someone who was like WW to someone else or like you described your husband's AP, where she's had many partners. I've had to share my WW already and it's scarred me, I'd sooner take a virgin or someone with only one other sexual partner (like me) over someone who has been with 20 guys. I don't care if I'm missing mind blowing sex or not. I think too many partners makes you numb at some level.

For all you know, your husband may get the ultimate karma payback years from now. Maybe the AP wanted a baby and a provider. She may not actually love him and one day will discard him, and the divorce may ruin him and his business.

[This message edited by ShatteredSakura at 7:32 AM, March 1st (Sunday)]

hopefullife posted 3/1/2020 09:25 AM

I think it's another case of a partner staying because they've settled.
...
If they met before the wedding I'd bet 5 bucks the same events would have unfolded

At some point I genuinely felt he loved me. I'd like to believe he did. But again, we loved very differently. I wish he met her before the wedding. I'd take a cancelled wedding heartache over this crap.

I know someone who cancelled a wedding the night before and I thought that only happened in movies. The events that transpired after were more traumatic, but on the hindsight I'm glad she (the wayward) didn't marry him (the betrayed). I wished he did the same to me instead.

Yeah, #YOLO right?
If you aren't feeling the tingles anymore, go find someone else who gives you that! If your spouse isn't your idea of perfection, then you're just not compatible and it's okay!

I can feel the anger in this lol. Whoever invented YOLO must not have meant to live life to its fullest extent at the expense of others but the world just took it to mean whatever.

I'm the type of person who doesn't have social media presence (until I got married, I suddenly had digital footprint. Right, I should add this to the list of the things i lost and not miss after I ask people to put it down) so I was never influenced by this FOMO thing. Self contentment is a gift these people are throwing away to chase some deranged sense of happiness.

Well for me it'll be questions on if they cheated before or the like.

I don't really like branding people over their past mistakes, but I get the fear. Once a cheater always a cheater eh? And you're right that those who have experienced being cheated on doesn't guarantee they won't do the same (i think i've read a few stories here in SI). So we can't really know. Staying single feels a lot safer.

ShatteredSakura posted 3/1/2020 10:01 AM

Maybe I'm disillusioned but the "people can change" argument I think only applies to a small group of people. Seems to be far more often people don't change. Maybe if I meet someone who genuinely changed I'll know it when I see it, but I'd expect the chances I meet someone who just wants the past buried and is at risk at doing again to be a lot higher.

Ww's friend who cheated twice kept hawking the "maybe you're just not compatible" line all the time. This woman lusted after another grad student for a year before forcing her long term boyfriend into an open relationship (after already physically cheating, and for a long time she flirted withe the OM to the point that her BF and her fought about it) then dumped him a short while later. The new relationship fizzled very quickly. When she got together with her boyfriend years previous, they both cheated on their previous partners while at a conference.

So when I hear a casual drop of incompatibility I just want to scream lol.

My mom knows someone who called off the wedding because she didn't want to be family with her new MIL lol. In addition to cringing at yolo, I also cringe at the term "adulting". Feels so juvenile.

[This message edited by ShatteredSakura at 10:13 AM, March 1st (Sunday)]

hopefullife posted 3/1/2020 10:24 AM

Hey, adulting is hard

People can change. Except changing for the better seems to be a far cry from changing to worse or maybe what they do is just show true colors and aren't really 'changing' per se.

Argh, the company they keep. They should have chosen friends wisely.

ShatteredSakura posted 3/1/2020 10:32 AM

Oh when I say majority can't change, I'm only talking about positive change.

Negative change is all around us. People become bitter or cynical. People become addicted to substances and do horrific things. It's easier to destroy than to build. Etc.

When you say the company they keep...did your WH have cheaters as friends? Maybe a metric is to interview a prospective date's friends! Lol. In a way one of WW's male friends "interviewed" me when she went to the restroom when I first met him.

And yes, adulting is hard but let's be classier. I just adulted my way through cleaning both of my bathrooms in between posting here

[This message edited by ShatteredSakura at 10:35 AM, March 1st (Sunday)]

hopefullife posted 3/1/2020 10:37 AM

He did.. you may be on to something here. Interview the friends!

I think being interviewed by friends is normal for women? My friends sort of interviewed him too. Don't think I was interviewed by his friends.

[This message edited by hopefullife at 10:39 AM, March 1st (Sunday)]

ShatteredSakura posted 3/1/2020 11:24 AM

Sounds like another thread idea! I feel like this thread is becoming the hopeful & sakura comedy hour/thinktank...I'm not complaining though

I would agree that you see a general trend split along gender lines, but I don't know. The male friend in question is bit of a white knight IMO.

They actually briefly dated...and there was another male friend in our board game group she met on OkCupid. From what I understand it never even got to the point of kissing, so innocent 1st/2nd date and felt nothing. I'm kind of neutral on that one as long as things were innocent...but WW clearly "collected" men she dated as friends. I only really cared about the ex, who was a real relationship. I'm sure there are women who have hookups and flings and then keep them as friends...I don't think I'd see a difference between that and an ex who they had an emotional connection with though. Still is putting me in a room full of former lovers.

hopefullife posted 3/1/2020 18:00 PM

We may have started a few threads from topics in this thread xDD

I haven't tried Online Dating but know a few who met the love of their lives in OkCupid and Tinder. I met x in school and though he expressed his interest the first time, it took us 3 years later to be a couple. It was a very slow process. I'm kind of old school in meeting people but nothing against online dating. That's the way to meet people nowadays.

Not to be harsh and i'm sorry in advance, but has she ever had male friends she never dated? >.< I knew all of his exes (I just didn't know the present). I made sure to ask as I didn't want to be surprised (lo and behold!). Though he had some as Facebook friends, I don't think he ever had them as more than just acquaintance anymore. Never seen them in person. So keeping exes close seems to be not a metric too.

ShatteredSakura posted 3/1/2020 18:54 PM

Why would that be considered harsh?

And no, she had other male friends from school and work. Basically I knew about 3 or 4 serious relationships (I'm honestly forgetting) before me, only one she still had in her life because like I've said they worked together. She also isn't the hookup type.

Her ex before me asked her out after they joined the same company around the same time, they met in orientation and ended up on the same team. The other two friends were dates after they broke up. The friend that "interviewed" me was actually her brothers best friend before becoming a good friend of hers. So it's really just the 3 people, but I feel like the pattern is there. Or at least the pattern of of not letting people go.

The other serious exes, one was from Europe she met during an exchange program and another dumped her. She had no contact with them, not really by her choice.

I want to say I hear the phrase "collecting exes" is more said of women and their exes and not vice versa. But I have read some women on SI complain of men who did that too.

And wow 3 years? I'm not even sure old school took that long

I can respect moving slow though. We didn't have our first kiss until like 3 weeks in, one of her friends questioned if "this new guy even really liked her". But we had like 3 or 4 dates every week because I wanted to spend time with her and talk.

In college there was someone I was interested in but she moved to the west coast after graduation. I didn't start seriously dating until a few years later because I figured by that point people settle down in areas they want to live in or careers they want to be in. At the time I would have considered you lucky for finding someone in school and not having your life direction end the relationship...not so lucky in retrospect I guess :/

[This message edited by ShatteredSakura at 7:00 PM, March 1st (Sunday)]

hopefullife posted 3/1/2020 22:24 PM

Well I didn't want to judge her for dating all of her male friends, if that was the case.

I offered him friendship for those 3 years and didn't really date until graduation. If SI was a love story forum I'd share mine as it had been one of a kind (well I suppose every love story is :P). I've always been the person who believed that friendship is the foundation of a good relationship. Look how well that turned out. So imagine if it took me that long to trust another without the trauma, how long will it take me WITH trauma. He knew that and still. Maybe I was a just game to him where marriage was the final quest and once achievement was unlocked he was done and gone. Sucks.

[This message edited by hopefullife at 10:25 PM, March 1st (Sunday)]

ShatteredSakura posted 3/2/2020 03:14 AM

No I don't think that's true. Maybe if you were the 85 year old Heiress to the Folger Family Fortune and he only was with you for a long con to inherit millions

Although, like we were talking about with feelings, it sometimes doesn't matter all the great past memories with these people. Only the present. It may feel like they were setting us up for a long con because we don't think like that. A thousand acts of kindness isn't lost on me, but I think given enough time WW would forget about them all.

WW was my best friend too. I agree with you, I couldn't imagine being with someone romantically if they weren't my best friend. That has been shaken a bit because it has been such a double whammy...like I put all my eggs in one basket and lost. It's a conundrum, because I doubt I will be able to separate the two in the future. Im not going to be with a woman romantically if I can't have the qualities that end up making me feel she's my best friend. A woman I can literally talk to all night about any subject or laugh with until my sides hurt, is going to become my best friend no matter what.

I don't know if time to trust w/ or w/o trauma is necessarily directly proportional like that. For all you know, the next connection you make that comes along happens a lot faster and easier. Life can be funny that way.

[This message edited by ShatteredSakura at 3:16 AM, March 2nd (Monday)]

hopefullife posted 3/2/2020 18:12 PM

I wish I have that much money. I would at least have the expectation that I might just be getting conned xD

Right? I can't imagine not being best friends with my partner. Talking, laughing, or even sitting silently with all day while doing our own things.

That could be true too. I know quite a few who broke up from a long term relationship and they found 'the one' quickly enough. Then again, they didn't have infidelity issues so~

[This message edited by hopefullife at 6:13 PM, March 2nd (Monday)]

ShatteredSakura posted 3/2/2020 19:57 PM

Even with that much money I'll still dress shabbily and drive my Subaru! That way no conwoman will know I'm a target :).

Right? I can't imagine not being best friends with my partner. Talking, laughing, or even sitting silently with all day while doing our own things.

Sounds like a perfect day to me. That last bit is the best thing. It is so wonderful being in tune with someone so well, that you feel comfortable just being silent around them. And then you reach over and hold their hand, and smile...and that's all that needs to be said between you two. I had that with WW, at least at some point. I guess it's a double edge sword, you may feel in tune and they are putting up a facade. Maybe she was comfortable being silent because she had her phone :/

ShatteredSakura posted 3/3/2020 06:44 AM

*sigh*

Got some unhappy reminders that it's the end. A change of address in the mail and pressure from the landlord about renewing plans (I had to tell at least the situation), she wants 2 months notice if I won't renew, which should put it at April 1st.

On the bright side I got a notification from zillow of a place that actually looks promising. It wasn't quite the price I want, but then I saw utilities included which should actually put it in the running.

The only problem is there is no air conditioning But it's a lower floor unit and maybe with a portable AC unit it wouldn't be so bad...it's in the middle of farm land so that is very appealing...it'll be nice to be back in a more rural area again.

hopefullife posted 3/3/2020 07:20 AM

Moving to someplace new sounds like a good step toward healing i mean, if there's nothing tying you there except memories of her then best to move right? Farm land sounds relaxing too.

We were planning to buy a farm land last year where we we're supposed to build our dream home. It's one of the things I asked him about soon after Dday. Like how could he be making deals with me about our future when he knew he was about to throw me i still don't get it, but definitely done asking.

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